What is you 5 top wars that changed the world forever.

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Postby foolish_yeti on Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:17 pm

Ah, nobody was ever serious about it....both countries used the supposed threat to their own advantage in gaining further control over their populations.
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Postby Guiscard on Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:18 pm

The cold war was a war fought by proxy in regions like the middle east. The US and USSR were never actively at war, but they had a hand in nearly all global conflict during that time trying to sway it one way or the other.
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Postby unriggable on Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:34 pm

Guiscard wrote:The cold war was a war fought by proxy in regions like the middle east. The US and USSR were never actively at war, but they had a hand in nearly all global conflict during that time trying to sway it one way or the other.


True, a lot of military equipment, specifically tanks, were improved based on the results (history channel for the win!).
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Postby foolish_yeti on Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:52 pm

unriggable wrote:True, a lot of military equipment, specifically tanks, were improved based on the results (history channel for the win!).


As they always have- the high tech industry got rich off that war...
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:56 pm

unriggable wrote:Forgot that the cold war had an effect on 9-11 and so pretty much all our actions since.


What effect did the Cold War have on 9/11? There is no link between them whatsoever as far as I can see...
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Postby hourman on Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:25 pm

Esactly the Cold war was not a War. It was a "POLICE ACTION" meaning no actual fighting took place it was all talk and no walk. and you right each were in about all major conflicts at that time like in the 80's when the USSR invaded Afganistan and Iraq.


Same question how does the Cold War have anything to do with 9-11.
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Postby Guiscard on Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:39 pm

I think some of you need to go read up on some international relations theory.

The cold war has everything to do with the state of the world today.

From wikipedia:

Legacy

Despite its rapid and relatively bloodless end, the Cold War was fought at a tremendous cost globally over the course of more than four decades. It cost the U.S. up to $8 trillion in military expenditures, and the lives of nearly 100,000 Americans in Korea and Vietnam. (LaFeber 2002, 1). It cost the Soviets an even higher share of their gross national product. In Southeast Asia, local civil wars were intensified by superpower rivalry, leaving millions dead.

The end of the Cold War gave Russia the chance to cut military spending dramatically, but the adjustment was wrenching. The military-industrial sector employed at least one of every five Soviet adults.[23] Its dismantling left millions throughout the former Soviet Union unemployed. Russian living standards have worsened overall in the post-Cold War years, although the economy has resumed growth in recent years. In the 1990s, Russia suffered an economic downturn more severe than the U.S. or Germany had undergone six decades earlier in the Great Depression after it had embarked on capitalist economic reforms.[24]

The legacy of the Cold War continues to structure world affairs. (Halliday) The Cold War institutionalized the role of the United States in the postwar global economic and political system. By 1989, the U.S. was responsible for military alliances with 50 countries and 1.5 million U.S. troops were posted in 117 countries. (Calhoun) The Cold War also institutionalized the commitment to a huge, permanent wartime military-industrial complex. (Calhoun)

Some of the economic and social tensions that underpinned Cold War competition in parts of the Third World remain acute. The breakdown of state control in a number of areas formerly ruled by Communist governments has produced new civil and ethnic conflicts, particularly in the former Yugoslavia. (Halliday) In some countries, the breakdown of state control was accompanied by state failure, such as in Afghanistan. But in other areas, particularly much of Eastern Europe, the end of the Cold War was accompanied by a large growth in the number of liberal democracies. In areas where the two superpowers had been waging proxy wars, and subsidizing local conflicts, many conflicts ended with the Cold War; and the occurrence of interstate wars, ethnic wars, revolutionary wars, or refugee and displaced persons crises declined sharply.[25]


Was very much a war between too states, just fought by proxy. As for 9/11 the link is a pretty obvious one: The roots of both Bin Laden and al-Qaeda lie in the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Bin Laden learned his trade, as it were, in the Afghani insurgency, cementing the cause as a global Islamic issue rather than a local one. al-Qaeda were formed from the mujahideen fighting in Afghanistan.

Slighlty ironic, really, in that the Americans would have liked nothing better than the mujahideen and bin Laden in Afghanistan to beat back the soviet invasion and defeat communism, yet now those same fighters and militant groups are their biggist threat.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:45 pm

Hm, I'd have to say really the only War that has changed the world...would be Low Rider. ;)


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Postby hourman on Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:45 pm

Guiscard wrote:I think some of you need to go read up on some international relations theory.

The cold war has everything to do with the state of the world today.

From wikipedia:

Legacy

Despite its rapid and relatively bloodless end, the Cold War was fought at a tremendous cost globally over the course of more than four decades. It cost the U.S. up to $8 trillion in military expenditures, and the lives of nearly 100,000 Americans in Korea and Vietnam. (LaFeber 2002, 1). It cost the Soviets an even higher share of their gross national product. In Southeast Asia, local civil wars were intensified by superpower rivalry, leaving millions dead.

The end of the Cold War gave Russia the chance to cut military spending dramatically, but the adjustment was wrenching. The military-industrial sector employed at least one of every five Soviet adults.[23] Its dismantling left millions throughout the former Soviet Union unemployed. Russian living standards have worsened overall in the post-Cold War years, although the economy has resumed growth in recent years. In the 1990s, Russia suffered an economic downturn more severe than the U.S. or Germany had undergone six decades earlier in the Great Depression after it had embarked on capitalist economic reforms.[24]

The legacy of the Cold War continues to structure world affairs. (Halliday) The Cold War institutionalized the role of the United States in the postwar global economic and political system. By 1989, the U.S. was responsible for military alliances with 50 countries and 1.5 million U.S. troops were posted in 117 countries. (Calhoun) The Cold War also institutionalized the commitment to a huge, permanent wartime military-industrial complex. (Calhoun)

Some of the economic and social tensions that underpinned Cold War competition in parts of the Third World remain acute. The breakdown of state control in a number of areas formerly ruled by Communist governments has produced new civil and ethnic conflicts, particularly in the former Yugoslavia. (Halliday) In some countries, the breakdown of state control was accompanied by state failure, such as in Afghanistan. But in other areas, particularly much of Eastern Europe, the end of the Cold War was accompanied by a large growth in the number of liberal democracies. In areas where the two superpowers had been waging proxy wars, and subsidizing local conflicts, many conflicts ended with the Cold War; and the occurrence of interstate wars, ethnic wars, revolutionary wars, or refugee and displaced persons crises declined sharply.[25]


Was very much a war between too states, just fought by proxy. As for 9/11 the link is a pretty obvious one: The roots of both Bin Laden and al-Qaeda lie in the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Bin Laden learned his trade, as it were, in the Afghani insurgency, cementing the cause as a global Islamic issue rather than a local one. al-Qaeda were formed from the mujahideen fighting in Afghanistan.

Slighlty ironic, really, in that the Americans would have liked nothing better than the mujahideen and bin Laden in Afghanistan to beat back the soviet invasion and defeat communism, yet now those same fighters and militant groups are their biggist threat.






As i think it was not a war and will never be a war. if there was no fighting of anykind that involved blooshed, its not a war. End of story. the cold war was not a war but a police action. nothing more nothing less but a police action. The cuban missile crisis was a police action too.
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Postby Guiscard on Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:53 pm

Read the first paragraph of that wikipedia bit again.

No. It was not a declared war between two states, but there were millions of American and Russian lives lost fighting wars of proxy to try and spread their respective regimes and ideologies in the hope of becoming more powerful than the opposing side, not to mention the mass casualties caused by the civil wars, revolutions and inter-state wars.

There are some scholars who suggest it could be considered a third world war (although I don't agree with that 100%).
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Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:55 pm

P.S. I'm going to have to agree that the Cold War was indeed a war. And, hourman, who are you to say no blood was shed? I'm pretty sure there were countless covert operations on both sides, probably a number that haven't even been revealed. :-\


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Postby Guiscard on Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:57 pm

Its not just the covert operations... Both Korea and Vietnam were wars of proxy where American troops died in the cold war fighting the spread of communism.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:58 pm

Agreed, indirect conflicts.


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Postby albend on Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:03 pm

plus there were "missing" subs on boths sides.
the goal is not to die for your country, but to have those other basturds die for theres. [patton]
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Postby Guiscard on Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:04 pm

Plus all the Bond films...
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