Greek Government Already Showing Cracks

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Re: Greek Election Campaigns Season Begins; Election May 6th

Postby maxfaraday on Sun May 06, 2012 8:07 pm

GreecePwns wrote:This rule has existed for a long time and probably exists in most parliaments (don't quote me on that, my one example that I know of is Belgium).


You're in deep shit then...
Belgium stayed withouth a Governement for like a year (it didn't seem to bother them though)...
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Re: First Greek Exit Polls Indicate 1st Place Still Undecide

Postby GreecePwns on Sun May 06, 2012 8:19 pm

Saxi, heres a quick outline:

Thanking the voters.
Samaras took our anti-immigration position and we're happy he cannot form a government and he is a hypocrite for changing his mind and trying to form coalition ("the Austerity Junta")
"A Greece free from immigrants (at one other point he used 'the stench') and from the memorandum"
"Veni, vidi, vici!" Yes, he actually said this. "You (the media) attacked us, you isolated us, you shut us out, but I beat you!...and the struggle will continue inside and outside of Parliament."

The big bodyguard looking guy on the left is soooo them. They've got a gang of thugs who harass immigrants and they don't deny it (they excuse it because they do occasional community service for ethnic Greeks.

An earlier quote: ‘I am not a fascist, I am a nationalist. Hitler was a great personality, but as a Greek I would fight him. We should send the illegal immigrants to the UN seat in New York’
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Re: Greek Vote Produces No Clear Gov't, Possible June Electi

Postby GreecePwns on Mon May 07, 2012 12:38 am

Reporting 98,63 % (essentially the final results)

New Democracy 108 seats 18,89 %
SYRIZA 52 seats 16,76 %
PASOK 41 seats 13,20 %
Independent Greeks 33 seats 10,59 %
KKE 26 seats 8,48 %
Golden Dawn 21 seats 6,97 %
Democratic Left 19 seats 6,10 %
Greens 2,93 %
LAOS 2,90 %
Democratic Alliance 2,56 %

The coalition is dead now, at 149 seats. The Greens are officially out, despite making late gains. I expect these results will yield another election in one month's time.

The big winners were SYRIZA and Golden Dawn, who vastly outperformed their opinion polls.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

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Re: Greek Vote Produces No Clear Gov't, Possible June Electi

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 07, 2012 12:42 am

no comments about Greece's debt? Is the debt still growing? has the growth slowed? Is the debt actually being addressed, or is it being ignored more than ever?

Came across some comments from an enlightened person with an excellent track record concerning Greece and the Golden Dawn party. Thought you might enjoy it, and also if you any comments about these comments please voice them. Cool to have a voice who is in the middle of it all. Thanks for this thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b01KZ82GO8&t=7m05s
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Re: Greek Vote Produces No Clear Gov't, Possible June Electi

Postby GreecePwns on Mon May 07, 2012 1:00 am

Image

And seriously, Geert Wilders? Scotty did you even bother to look this guy up?
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

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Re: Greek Vote Produces No Clear Gov't, Possible June Electi

Postby saxitoxin on Mon May 07, 2012 1:08 am

....
Last edited by saxitoxin on Mon May 07, 2012 6:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Greek Vote Produces No Clear Gov't, Possible June Electi

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 07, 2012 1:10 am

GreecePwns wrote:Image

And seriously, Geert Wilders? Scotty did you even bother to look this guy up?


No. I just asked you :)

And it looks like your debt is still rising....how have yall not addressed that yet?
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Re: Greek Vote Produces No Clear Gov't, Possible June Electi

Postby comic boy on Mon May 07, 2012 9:06 am

Greek
I understand the appeal of the anti austerity groups but what is their actual manifesto , pulling out of the Euro and devaluation of the Drachma or are they banking on more bailouts/ debt write offs ?
Im a TOFU miSfit
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Re: Greek Vote Produces No Clear Gov't, Possible June Electi

Postby GreecePwns on Mon May 07, 2012 9:56 am

Here's a nice summary of all the top parties. (PDF)

KKE: Greece should exit the eurozone and the EU, introduce a 45 percent tax rate for major capital, end armament deals that serve Nato needs and implement central planning for production

SYRIZA: Suspend the servicing of the debt, negotiate to erase a large portion of the public debt, add a pro-growth clause to the repayment of the rest of the debt; tax the wealthy, reduce armaments, combat corruption

Democratic Left: Reduce state expenditures for armaments and medicine, combat tax evasion effectively, reduce the public deficit more progressively, widen the tax base and impose heavier taxes on the wealthy and on capital

Greens: Redesign and improve tax system, reduce military expenditures, end economic privileges of the church, prioritise green economy, reduce tax for small & medium-sized enterprises

Independent Greeks: Create a new government-owned Greek investment bank, and transfer into it the property of the state, pension funds, state-owned public utilities, gold and money from all dormant accounts in banks

LAOS: Introduce a second currency for two years: use the eurodrachma for domestic transactions and keep the euro for transactions abroad; impose duties on imports

Golden Dawn: Denounce the memorandum, refuse to pay the odious public debt, nationalise the banks, exploit the hydrocarbons in the Greek seas, abolish party funding by the state
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
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Re: Greek Vote Produces No Clear Gov't, Possible June Electi

Postby GreecePwns on Mon May 07, 2012 10:09 am

First ND leader Antonis Samaras called the Independent Greeks first, who declined to even sit at a table with them.
Then he called the Democratic Left, and they will meet shortly, but the Democratic Left refuses to join coalition.
Then he called the KKE, and Aleka Papariga just stopped short of telling him to f*ck off.
Then he called SYRIZA, and Alexis Tsipras just stopped short of telling him to f*ck off.
Then he met with PASOK, and the meeting with Democratic Left is next.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

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Re: Greek Vote Produces No Clear Gov't, Possible June Electi

Postby MeDeFe on Mon May 07, 2012 11:33 am

I came across a nifty diagram that shows the percentage of votes that went to which party, and how many seats each party has.

http://ekloges.ypes.gr/v2012a/public/index.html#

And the system is fucked. ND has twice the seats of SYRIZA despite being only 2 percentage points ahead, I also read that even if SYRIZA had won they wouldn't have gotten the seats because they're a coalition of parties and not a single party. Is that correct? And 20% of the voters won't be represented at all because they parties they voted for received less than 3% each, 2 of them missed the mark by only a few hundred votes, those 20% are pretty much the bonus seats ND gets.

Elections are far from perfect here, too, but damn, that system is nearly as bad as the British way of winner taking it all.
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Re: Greek Vote Produces No Clear Gov't, Possible June Electi

Postby GreecePwns on Mon May 07, 2012 1:07 pm

The system gives 50 seats to the winner so we don't ever end up in a Belgium-like situation without a government. The rest are proportionally given. Without it, ND would have 58 to SYRIZA's 52. It's not perfect, but it really didn't matter before this election. Ironically, it still isn't enough to help form any government. SYRIZA would have gotten the seats if they won, since they ran the election under one banner as they always do.

And 20%? How much would it be in a winner-take-all system? As many as 49% can be unrepresented and it usually is more than 20%. Throughout the opinion polling period, the number unrepresented was projected to be around 9-10%, so that was unexpected.

The Greens missed Parliament by ~4500 votes.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

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Re: Greek Vote Produces No Clear Gov't, Possible June Electi

Postby GreecePwns on Tue May 08, 2012 12:28 pm

ND leader Antonis Samaras has given up; he has passed the government formation mandate onto SYRIZA's Alexis Tsipras. Tsipras has outlined his foundation for coalition government.

* The immediate cancellation of all impending measures that will impoverish Greeks further, such as cuts to pensions and salaries.
* The immediate cancellation of all impending measures that undermine fundamental workers' rights, such as the abolition of collective labor agreements.
* The immediate abolition of a law granting MPs immunity from prosecution, reform of the electoral law and a general overhaul of the political system.
* An investigation into Greek banks, and the immediate publication of the audit performed on the Greek banking sector by BlackRock.
* The setting up of an international auditing committee to investigate the causes of Greece's public deficit, with a moratorium on all debt servicing until the findings of the audit are published.

Democratic Left has accepted and said they will join any coalition government SYRIZA proposes (me reading between the lines: possibly the parties will run as one in the new election next month as they had in every one before 2012, giving them the 50-seat bonus easily). KKE has refused to talk to SYRIZA.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

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Re: Greek Vote Produces No Clear Gov't, Possible June Electi

Postby MeDeFe on Wed May 09, 2012 3:08 am

GreecePwns wrote:The system gives 50 seats to the winner so we don't ever end up in a Belgium-like situation without a government.

You are in a Belgium-like situation despite those 50 bonus seats, the winner of the election (or more accurately: The party that just barely got the most votes) failed to form a government.
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
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Re: GRE Gov't Formation: SYRIZA Outlines its Plans, Gets Sup

Postby GreecePwns on Wed May 09, 2012 11:11 am

Well yeah, when the leading party gets 18% of the vote, you should expect that no matter what kind of system you have. In every other election (where 2 parties had a combined ~80% of the vote) it just gave the winner a clear majority.

Another rule that I actually did not know (since The Third Republic has not seen such fragmentation in Parliament): A minority government can be formed with 120 seats, as long as it passes a vote of confidence. ND said they would support a SYRIZA minority government in this way.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

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