Zimmerman vs. DMX - Boxing Match?

[john9blue]

Why should a person be "open minded" when they're already siding with the truth?

LOL. i'm tempted to sig this.

you realize that every closed-minded person thinks that the know the "truth", right?

they think that BECAUSE they are closed-minded.

[Woodruff]

Well, as a short, heavier guy fighting my taller skinnier brother-in-laws I am glad to know that I am an incompetent. The number 1 thing in a fight is something called reach. Go look it up or just watch a Mohammed Ali fight.

In BOXING, reach is important. Do you think the two of them would have been standing around sparring? If you weigh 50+ pounds more than your brother and neither of you has any kind of special training, then yes...I'd have to say you're an incompetent fighter.

[BigBallinStalin]

I would have thought you of all people would be aware of the definition but just to remind you ;
Bigot - Obstinately or Intolerantly devoted to their own prejudices and opinions.

this describes almost everyone

I disagree. Obstinate or intolerant are the key words there.

(1) You should show strong evidence against a bigot's point of view, and he'll refuse it without any good counter-argument.

(2) You should show strong evidence against a "normal" person's point of view, and they'll think about, or be less inclined to accept their position as the only possible truth. Although that person may stick to his original position, which might have marginally changed, if he thinks about the counter-argument, or doubts his stance even a little bit, then he's not a bigot.

I think most people fall under (2). Of course, it depends on how one conveys an argument. For example, anyone can seem to be a bigot if they refuse to listen after you call them an idiot then scream out a "good" counter-argument. "Good" because it would've worked through a more diplomatic means.

[Woodruff]

I would have thought you of all people would be aware of the definition but just to remind you ;
Bigot - Obstinately or Intolerantly devoted to their own prejudices and opinions.

this describes almost everyone

I disagree , sure we all have prejudices but it doesn't follow that we pursue them in an obstinate or intolerant fashion. If one has a fixed position on a certain matter and is unwilling to be open minded then by definition that view is bigoted.

Why should a person be "open minded" when they're already siding with the truth?

Egad, man! Seriously?

[puppydog85]

How do you think the fight started Woodruff? With both of them laying on the ground? I don't care how much you weigh,if I have 6" of reach on you then the odds are you are getting a whuppin. It takes a training to beat someone with a considerably longer reach than you. And in a good old ground and pound reach is still important if you are the guy on top. You try and get up with someone sitting on your chest beating the snot out of you.

Well, now you add in "specialized training". your original comment was in a fight with no clarification. And that statement was flat out wrong, reach and speed have more to do with winning a fight than weight. Try Gracie in the UFC before weight classes if you want an example.

[Woodruff]

How do you think the fight started Woodruff? With both of them laying on the ground? I don't care how much you weigh,if I have 6" of reach on you then the odds are you are getting a whuppin.

You've never been in a street fight, have you?

As to this particular fight, I have no idea how it started, but I'm QUITE CONFIDENT it wasn't a boxing-type of format.

[puppydog85]

Oh, sure it started out with a takedown attempt. You have no clue how it went down. All we know is that Trayvon ended up on top of the person with the "TREMENDOUS" greater advantage. You never have been punched in the nose have you?

You stated with no reservations that "in a fight" a heavier person has a "TREMENDOUS" advantage. I have pointed out repeatedly that it is not so. Leave it there and move on. I gave examples of such yet you call scotty a bigot for not considering that he might be wrong?

[spurgistan]

You have no clue how it went down. All we know is that Trayvon ended up on top of the person with the "TREMENDOUS" greater advantage. You never have been punched in the nose have you?

lol

[Woodruff]

Oh, sure it started out with a takedown attempt. You have no clue how it went down. All we know is that Trayvon ended up on top of the person with the "TREMENDOUS" greater advantage.

And I admitted explicitly that I don't know how it went down...in fact, I stated exactly that in the post you're responding to here.

You stated with no reservations that "in a fight" a heavier person has a "TREMENDOUS" advantage. I have pointed out repeatedly that it is not so.

You made a statement of ignorance about it...that's not really a counter. I'm pretty well-trained in hand-to-hand combat. There absolutely is a TREMENDOUS advantage for a shorter, heavier individual (when the weight is as significant as 50+ pounds) over a taller, thinner individual when neither has any further training. I have no reservations making that statement. That doesn't mean the individual took advantage of that advantage...but it is absolutely there.

I gave examples of such yet you call scotty a bigot for not considering that he might be wrong?

I called Phatscotty a bigot because he is one. A review of his posts shows it pretty clearly, although he always tries to take pains not to explicitly say it.

[puppydog85]

You continue to use yourself as an authority, and I hate to say this but unless you really are Spock, I don't know you or your fighting experience from Adam. I think I read somewhere that you had military training but I really don't count that as much (my second cousin has also and I can out shoot and out fight him). I have seen equally trained fighters get beaten by taller opponents who weighed less. It can be an advantage but you made it sound like it would take a minor miracle to beat someone heavier than you with equal training.

As I stated before: you say one thing and I give real life examples disproving it. I am perfectly willing to change my mind or admit I was wrong but I really need more than your say so, for the reasons stated above.


*edit here. Just so I understand you: you are saying that Steven Seagal at his current weight would beat himself from 20 years ago (or whenever he was in his prime)?

[Phatscotty]

Plus, there is the whole thing that Zimmerman did not land a single blow

Wait, what? You ARE a bigot, aren't you?

How is that bigotry??

yeah, what the heck? I think you are just as confused about what a bigot is as you are about what a troll is Woodruff.

It's a fact that Zimmerman did not punch Trayvon, and it is a fact the Trayvon punched Zimmerman numerous times and slammed his head into the concrete. Don't be scared of the facts and try to attack them by calling the messenger a bigot. That doesn't change anything that happened that night. The only thing it changes is the temporary satisfaction you gain from filling the hollowness inside you by snarling incoherently.

[Woodruff]

Plus, there is the whole thing that Zimmerman did not land a single blow

Wait, what? You ARE a bigot, aren't you?

How is that bigotry??

yeah, what the heck? I think you are just as confused about what a bigot is as you are about what a troll is Woodruff.

It's a fact that Zimmerman did not punch Trayvon

How is this a "fact", bigot?

[Phatscotty]

Plus, there is the whole thing that Zimmerman did not land a single blow

Wait, what? You ARE a bigot, aren't you?

How is that bigotry??

yeah, what the heck? I think you are just as confused about what a bigot is as you are about what a troll is Woodruff.

It's a fact that Zimmerman did not punch Trayvon

How is this a "fact".

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/aut ... s-h/nN6gs/

Do you have new information, or any information, that proves it not a fact? Because there is tons of official information that empirically makes this a fact.

The autopsy confirms the only injury that Trayvon had besides a gunshot wound was to his knuckles, and not a single scratch on him anywhere else. Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, 2 black eyes, lacerations to his head, amongst other injuries.

That is how it is a fact, that is how this proves you are ignorant to the facts of this case, that's how this proves your opinions on this case or based on ignorance. I guess you are bigoted against facts.

[Woodruff]

Plus, there is the whole thing that Zimmerman did not land a single blow

Wait, what? You ARE a bigot, aren't you?

How is that bigotry??

yeah, what the heck? I think you are just as confused about what a bigot is as you are about what a troll is Woodruff.

It's a fact that Zimmerman did not punch Trayvon

How is this a "fact".

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/aut ... s-h/nN6gs/

Do you have new information, or any information, that proves it not a fact? Because there is tons of official information that empirically makes this a fact.

The autopsy confirms the only injury that Trayvon had besides a gunshot wound was to his knuckles, and not a single scratch on him anywhere else. Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, 2 black eyes, lacerations to his head, amongst other injuries.

That is how it is a fact, that is how this proves you are ignorant to the facts of this case, that's how this proves your opinions on this case or based on ignorance. I guess you are bigoted against facts.

You have a very weird definition of the word "fact", bigot. But I'm not surprised, as you have very weird definitions for a lot of words.

[Phatscotty]

You know Woodruff, you are welcome to present any facts to the contrary. I shouldn't have to tell you this. So far you have brought nothing but a bunch of name calling and negativity, still adding nothing to the discussion. It's almost like you are...

One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

[john9blue]

yeah, what the heck? I think you are just as confused about what a bigot is as you are about what a troll is Woodruff.

It's a fact that Zimmerman did not punch Trayvon

How is this a "fact".

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/aut ... s-h/nN6gs/

Do you have new information, or any information, that proves it not a fact? Because there is tons of official information that empirically makes this a fact.

The autopsy confirms the only injury that Trayvon had besides a gunshot wound was to his knuckles, and not a single scratch on him anywhere else. Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, 2 black eyes, lacerations to his head, amongst other injuries.

That is how it is a fact, that is how this proves you are ignorant to the facts of this case, that's how this proves your opinions on this case or based on ignorance. I guess you are bigoted against facts.

You have a very weird definition of the word "fact", bigot. But I'm not surprised, as you have very weird definitions for a lot of words.

this is fucking weak. address his post.

[Woodruff]

yeah, what the heck? I think you are just as confused about what a bigot is as you are about what a troll is Woodruff.

It's a fact that Zimmerman did not punch Trayvon

How is this a "fact".

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/aut ... s-h/nN6gs/

Do you have new information, or any information, that proves it not a fact? Because there is tons of official information that empirically makes this a fact.

The autopsy confirms the only injury that Trayvon had besides a gunshot wound was to his knuckles, and not a single scratch on him anywhere else. Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, 2 black eyes, lacerations to his head, amongst other injuries.

That is how it is a fact, that is how this proves you are ignorant to the facts of this case, that's how this proves your opinions on this case or based on ignorance. I guess you are bigoted against facts.

You have a very weird definition of the word "fact", bigot. But I'm not surprised, as you have very weird definitions for a lot of words.

this is fucking weak. address his post.

I did. It is not in any way a "fact" that Zimmerman did not punch Martin.

You know Woodruff, you are welcome to present any facts to the contrary.

As opposed to your made up facts?

[Symmetry]

What points need to be addressed? The judge already said that Zimmerman and his wife mislead the court. He had his bail refused, then upped, his wife is on perjury charges.

Zimmerman's bond revocation
On June 1, 2012, Judge Lester granted a motion to revoke Zimmerman's bond. The prosecution alleged that Zimmerman and his wife had misled the court by failing to reveal a large amount of money they had received through donations[25] and that they had used a "rudimentary 'code' to discuss the money in recorded jailhouse phone calls—referring to $100,000, for example, as '$100.'"[232] Judge Lester revoked the bond and ordered Zimmerman to surrender himself to the court and remain in custody until his next hearing[233][25] On June 3, Zimmerman voluntarily turned himself in to Seminole County Sheriff's Office personnel in compliance with the court's order.[234][235]

On June 11, 2012, Judge Lester issued a written ruling citing his reasoning for revoking Zimmerman's bond, stating,"This is a serious charge for which life may be imposed; the evidence against him is strong; he has been charged with one prior crime, for which he went through a pre-trial diversion program; and has had an injunction lodged against him ... Most importantly, though, is the fact that he has now demonstrated that he does not properly respect the law or the integrity of the judicial process." A new bond hearing was set for June 29.[236]
On June 18, 2012, Special Prosecutor Angela Corey released six phone calls Zimmerman made to his wife while he was in the Seminole County Jail. In the calls, Zimmerman gave his wife passwords and instructions for the transfer of funds between accounts. The funds represented money people had donated to Zimmerman's defense fund via the web.[237]

On June 29, 2012, Judge Lester heard considerable testimony by the prosecution and the defense as to whether or not Zimmerman should be released on bond a second time. The prosecution repeated allegations that Zimmerman and his wife had attempted to deceive the court about their finances, which Zimmerman's defense attorneys denied. Zimmerman's parole officer testified that Zimmerman had complied with all of his parole requirements and was "a model parolee." Observers commented that both the prosecution and the defense presented what seemed to be "opening statements," as though the trial had already begun. [238]

On July 5, 2012, Judge Lester set Zimmerman's bond at $1 million with several conditions - that he be electronically monitored, reside in Seminole County, have no bank accounts or passport and observe a 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. curfew. Lester said he granted bond "because Zimmerman posed no threat to the community." [239]

On July 6, 2012, Zimmerman satisfied his bond conditions and was released from jail a second time. [27]

[Phatscotty]

yeah, what the heck? I think you are just as confused about what a bigot is as you are about what a troll is Woodruff.

It's a fact that Zimmerman did not punch Trayvon

How is this a "fact".

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/aut ... s-h/nN6gs/

Do you have new information, or any information, that proves it not a fact? Because there is tons of official information that empirically makes this a fact.

The autopsy confirms the only injury that Trayvon had besides a gunshot wound was to his knuckles, and not a single scratch on him anywhere else. Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, 2 black eyes, lacerations to his head, amongst other injuries.

That is how it is a fact, that is how this proves you are ignorant to the facts of this case, that's how this proves your opinions on this case or based on ignorance. I guess you are bigoted against facts.

You have a very weird definition of the word "fact", bigot. But I'm not surprised, as you have very weird definitions for a lot of words.

You know Woodruff, you are welcome to present any facts to the contrary.

As opposed to your made up facts?

as opposed to anything, dodge king!
Put the F up or STFU!!!!! Seriously Woodruff, it's time to put up or shut up.

[Woodruff]

You know Woodruff, you are welcome to present any facts to the contrary.

As opposed to your made up facts?

as opposed to anything, dodge king!
Put the F up or STFU!!!!! Seriously Woodruff, it's time to put up or shut up.

I know irony is largely lost on you, Phatscotty...but before you can make that statement with any legitimacy, you've got about three years worth of putting up or shutting up to do. So have at it.

[Phatscotty]

You know Woodruff, you are welcome to present any facts to the contrary.

As opposed to your made up facts?

as opposed to anything, dodge king!
Put the F up or STFU!!!!! Seriously Woodruff, it's time to put up or shut up.

I know irony is largely lost on you, Phatscotty...but before you can make that statement with any legitimacy, you've got about three years worth of putting up or shutting up to do. So have at it.

I already had it.

I provided a link to the autopsy. I put up. I brought the facts. But it seems like all you want to do is talk about me, and everything over the last 3 years, that is to say everything EXCEPT for the topic at hand.

I have requested that you provide a shred of evidence 4 times now, and even other posters are starting to call you a coward for dodging so ungracefully. You are unable to back up a single thing you said. What I have said has been backed up. None of your negativity or trolling or derailing can change that. You lose

And another thing, if I have no legitimacy, and I am incorrect and ignorant and misinformed.....what in thee blue hell does that say about YOU, who spends countless hours responding to me? Do you really make sure to respond to every single thing a truly stupid person says? Because most people don't. We ignore them because it isn't worth our time. Which is why I will ignore you, and I will bet a million dollars you will still continue stalking my posts, but you will only spend so much time doing that because I'm so dumb, right?

[Woodruff]

You know Woodruff, you are welcome to present any facts to the contrary.

As opposed to your made up facts?

as opposed to anything, dodge king!
Put the F up or STFU!!!!! Seriously Woodruff, it's time to put up or shut up.

I know irony is largely lost on you, Phatscotty...but before you can make that statement with any legitimacy, you've got about three years worth of putting up or shutting up to do. So have at it.

I already had it.
I provided a link to the autopsy. I put up. I brought the facts.

That doesn't show that it's a fact that Zimmerman didn't punch Martin.

But it seems like all you want to do is talk about me, and everything over the last 3 years, that is to say everything EXCEPT for the topic at hand.

Actually, it's been your incessant dodging of everything that goes against your misguided worldview that caused me to start paying more attention to exactly what it is that you say. In fact, I have quite often responded very directly to your points...and those posts have gone largely ignored. In fact, this is your modus operandi for not just my posts, but any that go against your worldview.

I have requested that you provide a shred of evidence 4 times now, and even other posters are starting to call you a coward for dodging so ungracefully.

Is that right? Because I'm not seeing these posts...perhaps I have them foed? Is that what you're suggesting?

You are unable to back up a single thing you said.

Really? What I have said is that your alleged "fact" is not at all a fact. It's simple for me to back that up...you haven't provided any proof of it.

What I have said has been backed up.

Perhaps you don't understand the term "fact". Facts aren't accomplished by supposition and presumption.

And another thing, if I have no legitimacy, and I am incorrect and ignorant and misinformed.

My use of the term referring to your legitimacy had nothing at all to do with whether you are ignorant or misinformed. Nothing at all. My use of the term had to do with "the pot calling the kettle black" in that you were demanding something of me which you have steadfastly refused to provide for yourself over oh so many years.

what in thee hell does that say about YOU, who spends countless hours responding to me? Do you really make sure to respond to every single thing a truly stupid person says?

I despise the ignorance that you try to spread.

Because most people don't. We ignore them because it isn't worth our time.

You ignore anything that goes against your worldview, so why not ignore that too?

Which is why I will ignore you, and I will bet a million dollars you will still continue stalking my posts, but you will only spend so much time doing that because I'm so dumb, right?

You've claimed to have foed me at least seven times now. Why doesn't it stick? You do seem to love the coward's way out.

[john9blue]

i'm going to believe scotty's side of the story until you give me a good reason not to, woody

[Woodruff]

i'm going to believe scotty's side of the story until you give me a good reason not to, woody

You're going to believe that it's a fact that Zimmerman never punched Martin? Where's the proof of this fact? Don't facts require proof? If the FACT that there's no proof of this "fact" isn't a good reason for you not to believe it, then I'm afraid there's nothing that will convince you, Mr. Moderate.

[puppydog85]

Woodruff, I find it hilarious that you walk around demanding "proof" and yet in our discussion about weight and fighting I gave you real life examples and all you did was dogmatically state that I was wrong, all the while offering no proof other than your say so.