Zimmerman vs. DMX - Boxing Match?

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Concerning Zimmerman Verdict

I agree and am not American
12
25%
I disagree and am not American
3
6%
I agree and am mostly liberal
6
13%
I disagree and am mostly liberal
6
13%
I agree and am mostly conservative
13
27%
I disagree and am mostly conservative
2
4%
AOG easy as 123
6
13%
 
Total votes : 48

Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby puppydog85 on Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:17 pm

I am beginning to think you are just a troll Woodruff. Your righteous indignation might work if your original statement were anything other than your personal opinion. But unfortunately for you an anecdote can be a form of evidence and it is higher up the chain than personal opinion (which is all you ever offer).
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby john9blue on Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:35 pm

Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:i'm going to believe scotty's side of the story until you give me a good reason not to, woody


You're going to believe that it's a fact that Zimmerman never punched Martin? Where's the proof of this fact? Don't facts require proof? If the FACT that there's no proof of this "fact" isn't a good reason for you not to believe it, then I'm afraid there's nothing that will convince you, Mr. Moderate.


who ever said i would jump to conclusions like that? that's not how i do things. i just believe his side of the story is supported by more evidence than yours, because you don't seem to want to provide any. it's a belief, not a fact.
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:38 pm

puppydog85 wrote:I am beginning to think you are just a troll Woodruff. Your righteous indignation might work if your original statement were anything other than your personal opinion. But unfortunately for you an anecdote can be a form of evidence and it is higher up the chain than personal opinion (which is all you ever offer).


You're right...23 years worth of being trained by the military is irrelevant to the idea of hand-to-hand combat. Gosh, you sure called me out there, didn't you!
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:40 pm

john9blue wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:i'm going to believe scotty's side of the story until you give me a good reason not to, woody


You're going to believe that it's a fact that Zimmerman never punched Martin? Where's the proof of this fact? Don't facts require proof? If the FACT that there's no proof of this "fact" isn't a good reason for you not to believe it, then I'm afraid there's nothing that will convince you, Mr. Moderate.


who ever said i would jump to conclusions like that?


You did. Right there...it's quoted above. Which part of my point are you disputing?

john9blue wrote:that's not how i do things. i just believe his side of the story is supported by more evidence than yours, because you don't seem to want to provide any. it's a belief, not a fact.


Yet, Phatscotty stated that it was a fact.
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby puppydog85 on Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:33 pm

Oh, now I see why you have your knickers in a twist. I knocked the military's training. Well, whatever, he was a recent trainee and I have heard the standards have come down lately. But don't worry, name the time,place, and weapon and I will attempt to give satisfaction.
But regrettably for your case, you never mentioned your training, you just descended from Sinai and told us what God had delivered to you. That coupled with the fact that your opinion was prima facia ignorant. Anytime you want to interact with facts just respond to the ones I posted (now where have I heard someone whining about someone not interacting with facts???? Oh, yeah, that is what you like to cry foul about)
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby Woodruff on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:03 am

puppydog85 wrote:Oh, now I see why you have your knickers in a twist. I knocked the military's training.


No, you didn't. You didn't say anything at all about the military's training.

puppydog85 wrote:Well, whatever, he was a recent trainee and I have heard the standards have come down lately.


What does that even mean? Who is "he"...Martin?

puppydog85 wrote:But don't worry, name the time,place, and weapon and I will attempt to give satisfaction.


Are you sane? What does this have to do with anything?

puppydog85 wrote:But regrettably for your case, you never mentioned your training, you just descended from Sinai and told us what God had delivered to you.


You're new here, so you didn't know information that most of the commonly-posting posters here are aware of (that I'm former military). That's not your fault. But it's also not my fault that I didn't provide this commonly-aware information, because I believed those participating in the discussion already knew it. I was trying to save typing/information overload (which is a problem of mine as it is).

puppydog85 wrote:That coupled with the fact that your opinion was prima facia ignorant.


So you ARE saying that 23 years of military experience in hand-to-hand combat training is irrelevant to the subject? You need to make up your mind.

puppydog85 wrote:Anytime you want to interact with facts just respond to the ones I posted


What "facts" have you posted? Are those like Phatscotty's "fact" that Zimmerman had never punched Martin? I remember some anecdotal evidence you provided, that you apparently believe is far superior to military training.
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:13 am

Image





Could Phatscotty, Woodruff, and puppydog please answer the following:




Question: What are the facts that are in dispute which are relevant to what went down between Martin and Zimmerman?



I want to understand, I want to know, what all the rage is about. As mere human beings exhibiting an alternate persona via the Internet, can't we revert to a more civil form of discussion?
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:25 am

john9blue wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:i'm going to believe scotty's side of the story until you give me a good reason not to, woody


You're going to believe that it's a fact that Zimmerman never punched Martin? Where's the proof of this fact? Don't facts require proof? If the FACT that there's no proof of this "fact" isn't a good reason for you not to believe it, then I'm afraid there's nothing that will convince you, Mr. Moderate.


who ever said i would jump to conclusions like that? that's not how i do things. i just believe his side of the story is supported by more evidence than yours, because you don't seem to want to provide any. it's a belief, not a fact.



All of the evidence matches Zimmerman's account, as well as the eye-witness testimony matches Zimmerman's account. That shows Zimmerman's honesty.

That's why he is going to walk.
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:45 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:Image





Could Phatscotty, Woodruff, and puppydog please answer the following:




Question: What are the facts that are in dispute which are relevant to what went down between Martin and Zimmerman?



I want to understand, I want to know, what all the rage is about. As mere human beings exhibiting an alternate persona via the Internet, can't we revert to a more civil form of discussion?


Who is being uncivil? Call them out please and we can see some justice enforced.

I say none of the facts are in dispute, as far as what the last page of rage was all about. I'm done talkin about it.

The evidence gaught braught, peeps got surved.

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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:51 am

notyou2 wrote:Zimmerman is guilty. If found innocent, there will be riots across the US.


And you call the Tea Party violent huh? :roll: WOW!

Yeah...we know all about your threats of riots and violence and chaos and destruction. Why do you think I am trying so hard to make sure people know the truth?

All I am trying to do is save lives. The more people that know the truth, the fewer people will be killed and pillaged by wild animals in fits of coordinated insanity and misdirected rage.

For example, I continue to hear, over and over again, just yesterday even, people calling radio shows and screaming "THE POLICE TOLD ZIMMERMAN NOT TO FOLLOW HIM, AND HE DID ANYWAYS!"

That is a lie that grew some legs, and it's just the kind of lie that will bring the barbarians to the gates.

The truth will set you free
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:55 am

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Image





Could Phatscotty, Woodruff, and puppydog please answer the following:




Question: What are the facts that are in dispute which are relevant to what went down between Martin and Zimmerman?



I want to understand, I want to know, what all the rage is about. As mere human beings exhibiting an alternate persona via the Internet, can't we revert to a more civil form of discussion?


Who is being uncivil?


Key qualifier: "... MORE CIVIL...."
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby Woodruff on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:30 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:Could Phatscotty, Woodruff, and puppydog please answer the following:
Question: What are the facts that are in dispute which are relevant to what went down between Martin and Zimmerman?


Phatscotty claims it is a fact that Zimmerman did not punch Martin. I claim that this is not a fact. No one has shown that it is, indeed, a fact.
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby Woodruff on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:31 am

Phatscotty wrote:
john9blue wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:i'm going to believe scotty's side of the story until you give me a good reason not to, woody


You're going to believe that it's a fact that Zimmerman never punched Martin? Where's the proof of this fact? Don't facts require proof? If the FACT that there's no proof of this "fact" isn't a good reason for you not to believe it, then I'm afraid there's nothing that will convince you, Mr. Moderate.


who ever said i would jump to conclusions like that? that's not how i do things. i just believe his side of the story is supported by more evidence than yours, because you don't seem to want to provide any. it's a belief, not a fact.


All of the evidence matches Zimmerman's account, as well as the eye-witness testimony matches Zimmerman's account. That shows Zimmerman's honesty.


We should definitely ask the other guy involved. Oh, wait...right, the answer here is to make sure you kill the other guy so that there is no alternative story. Like I said before, hunting black kids (or white kids, or yellow kids) is great, as long as you make sure to shoot them dead. Then you get to write the history of the event.

Also..."eye-witness testimony"? Are you sure that's what you meant to say?

If Zimmerman was so honest, why was he having so much trouble with his bail?
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby puppydog85 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:44 am

Stalin, I was responding to a specific claim made by Woodruff about the advantage weight has in a fight. Nothing of substance has really been said about it in 2 pages.

Woodruff, you need to look up anecdote. I only gave one instance of that and when you went on a tear about anecdotes, I assumed that you were actually talking about it. That was where I assumed you must be relying on personal experience for your claims and I offered my personal experience that lead me to doubt the quality of your personal experience. You see, two can play at that game. (I really think we are stretching the limits of what is a anecdote though in calling that an anecdote)

As a far as evidence goes? Sorry, nothing you are saying is even getting off the ground.
As you are stating it this is your position: 1. I have 23 years of military experience (who cares? which branch? were you a desk jockey, grunt, or spec ops? And seriously? do you know how many people run around on bbs saying that they are military?) 2. Everyone here knows that. 3. So when I talk about it anything related to it, I can just deliver my opinion and call it a fact and all will know that I am right, no other evidence it needed.

I, on the other hand, offer verifiable examples to back up what I said. In a fight the heavier person does not have a "TREMENDOUS advantage" neither are you an "incompetent" if you lose a fight to a taller person with a significant reach advantage. I gave example's from both boxing (Ali) and ground fighting ( Gracie) that say the opposite. If you don't know who I am talking about just say so and I can explain what I meant more. But, honestly, I don't have the time to rehash the whole thing over if all you do if run the argument around in circles, re-quoting the last page of discussion.
Last edited by puppydog85 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby comic boy on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:25 am

Phatscotty wrote:
john9blue wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:i'm going to believe scotty's side of the story until you give me a good reason not to, woody


You're going to believe that it's a fact that Zimmerman never punched Martin? Where's the proof of this fact? Don't facts require proof? If the FACT that there's no proof of this "fact" isn't a good reason for you not to believe it, then I'm afraid there's nothing that will convince you, Mr. Moderate.


who ever said i would jump to conclusions like that? that's not how i do things. i just believe his side of the story is supported by more evidence than yours, because you don't seem to want to provide any. it's a belief, not a fact.



All of the evidence matches Zimmerman's account, as well as the eye-witness testimony matches Zimmerman's account. That shows Zimmerman's honesty.

That's why he is going to walk.


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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby GreecePwns on Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:10 am

Honesty? He already lied about his finances in court, and its obvious he's lying in that Hannity (was it Hannity? I forgot.) interview, even Hannity sounded like he knew it.
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby Night Strike on Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:04 am

Woodruff wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Could Phatscotty, Woodruff, and puppydog please answer the following:
Question: What are the facts that are in dispute which are relevant to what went down between Martin and Zimmerman?


Phatscotty claims it is a fact that Zimmerman did not punch Martin. I claim that this is not a fact. No one has shown that it is, indeed, a fact.


I addressed this directly, yet you ignored it or skipped right over it while "debating" Phatscotty.
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby Woodruff on Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:29 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Could Phatscotty, Woodruff, and puppydog please answer the following:
Question: What are the facts that are in dispute which are relevant to what went down between Martin and Zimmerman?


Phatscotty claims it is a fact that Zimmerman did not punch Martin. I claim that this is not a fact. No one has shown that it is, indeed, a fact.


I addressed this directly, yet you ignored it or skipped right over it while "debating" Phatscotty.


Sorry, Night Strike. I didn't ignore it (and I suppose I should have responded to say so)...what you said supported my point (in my view), so I didn't see it as a refutation, so I didn't think I had anything to respond to.
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby Night Strike on Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:31 pm

Woodruff wrote:Sorry, Night Strike. I didn't ignore it (and I suppose I should have responded to say so)...what you said supported my point (in my view), so I didn't see it as a refutation, so I didn't think I had anything to respond to.


It very well may have supported your point, but as far as I know, as far as the law is concerned, if there is no sign of physical damage on either the person who threw the punch or on the person who received the punch, then the punch did not occur because it cannot be proven to have occurred. Phatscotty's point about it being a fact that Zimmerman never threw a punch might be an exaggeration or even false in the practical/real sense, but as far as the law is concerned, the currently released information indicates that Zimmerman did not throw a punch.
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Re: Trayvon/Zimmerman: Full Interview bottom of page 64

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:18 am

The amount of minute detail in this discussion is almost surreal.


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Re: Zimmerman Files Suit Against NBC

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:58 pm

George Zimmerman Is Suing NBC For Making Him Look Like A Racist

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/george-z ... z2Af3hK7Ci

The man accused of killing 17-year-old Trayvon Martin is attacking media giant NBC for its damning edit of his 911 calls.

Back in April, the "Today" Show aired a segment featuring a selectively edited version of the calls that made it seem like Zimmerman targeted Martin solely because the teen was black.

In NBC's version of the calls, Zimmerman said Martin "looks like he's up to no good. He looks black."

In reality, Zimmerman said Martin looked like he was on drugs and was just walking around in the rain. He only mentioned the teen's race when asked about it by the 911 dispatcher.

NBC has since apologized for the dreadful editing.

But that apology wasn't enough for Zimmerman, who is about to file a lawsuit against NBC, its president Steve Capus and correspondent Ron Allen, the New York Post reported early Thursday.
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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Re: Zimmerman Preparing Lawsuit Against NBC

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:06 am

We are actually going to find out who was right and who was full of shit this whole time...

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/20 ... 8page%29/2

George Zimmerman judge OKs question: Who was the real Trayvon Martin?

The new judge in George Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial allowed defense attorneys to subpoena social media networks and peruse Trayvon Martin’s school records to determine whether the slain teen had a violent past.

In sparking a nationwide call for justice, Trayvon Martin’s parents painted the slain teenager as sweet, aspiring, and well-meaning – notions backed up by a baby-faced photo that led President Obama to suggest, “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.”

But on Friday, a new judge in the second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman, the 29-year-old volunteer watchman accused of profiling, accosting, and then murdering an unarmed Trayvon on Feb. 26, made a major ruling that could alter that image.

Circuit Court Judge Debra Nelson allowed, with limitations, defense attorneys to dig deep into Trayvon’s social media scribblings and school records to determine whether the boy had a violent streak that may have put Mr. Zimmerman into a self-defense stance.

Whether any evidence dug up by Zimmerman’s defense team ever makes it to the media or the public will be up to Judge Nelson. But the ruling opens up a major new break in what’s shaping up to be an emotional, heart-wrenching trial that will explore not just Zimmerman’s guilt, but the extent to which race played into both Zimmerman’s actions and decisions by police in the aftermath.

“I have had anecdotal evidence that there were videos out there suggesting that [Trayvon] involved himself in MMA (mixed martial arts) fighting, he had an experience level with that,” Mark O’Mara, Zimmerman’s attorney, said after Friday’s court hearing. “I think the judge hit it on head … that reputation for violence is an issue in this case.”

The shooting caused a national uproar about racial profiling and permissive gun laws when local police in Sanford, Fla., where Trayvon was killed, let Zimmerman go free, citing the 2005 “stand your ground” law in Florida, which negated the legal doctrine of “duty to retreat” in the face of an attack. Forty-four days later, a special prosecutor filed second degree murder charges against Zimmerman, who is now out on bond at an undisclosed location in Seminole County.

On Friday, Trayvon’s parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, called Judge Nelson’s decision to allow the school and social media subpoenas a travesty, suggesting that by opening up Trayvon’s records it would allow defense attorneys to “make a dead child seem as if they’re the perpetrator.”

Yet there’s a sound legal reason for the judge allowing the defense to go on the offense, says George Dekle, a law professor at the University of Florida. True, he says, the prosecution has stated that the basic facts of the case – a grown man profiles a boy as a criminal, instigates a confrontation, then shoots him dead when the boy defends himself – substantiate a second-degree murder conviction.

But under Florida law, the nuances of the confrontation, and the actions of the victim, are all admissible in a self-defense claim.

The stand-your-ground law, which was cited by police when they originally let Zimmerman off without an arrest, doesn’t allow someone to instigate a fight and then immediately use deadly force. But if the tables are turned and the person is backed into a corner – or ends up with his back on the ground, as Zimmerman claims – a defendant can still claim that they acted in self-defense, Mr. Dekle says.

“You could analyze a lot of cases that are stand-your-ground cases as not having anything to do with stand your ground, because the person wasn’t in a position to run away anyhow,” says Dekle.

To be sure, race continues to be a simmering undercurrent in the trial. In late September, a Trayvon family attorney, Ben Crump, told the Orlando Sentinel that, “Nobody believes that if you make Trayvon Martin white [and Zimmerman black], there’s no way he would not be arrested. That’s why race is involved in this case.”

But this week, Mr. O’Mara shot back in an online post, writing, “While it can be safely argued that it is largely the question of civil rights issues that has made the George Zimmerman case a national – and international – story, there is nothing to support the contention of racism in the Zimmerman case.”

Either way, following a summer in which Zimmerman’s credibility came under heavy scrutiny after he and his wife colluded to lie to the court about their financial situation, the judge’s ruling on Friday made it clear that Zimmerman’s defense team has found some traction in a case that’s scheduled to go to trial on next June.

And while the race issue continues to define the case more broadly, it became clear this week that the tension in the case has come to revolve around whether Trayvon’s personality and whether the boy’s actions – not his race or his hoodie, which in part drew Zimmerman’s attention on the night of the shooting – played a role in the tragedy.

Trayvon had been on a 10-day suspension from his high school when he was killed. The suspension came after school officials found an empty marijuana baggie on him. An eyewitness to the shooting has also testified that Trayvon was straddling Zimmerman, punching him “MMA-style” in the moments before he was shot.

“The rules of evidence permit the defense to introduce evidence of a pertinent character trait in support of Zimmerman’s claim that [Trayvon] Martin was the aggressor,” writes former defense attorney Frederick Leatherman on his popular law blog.

“For example, if Trayvon Martin was known to be an aggressive bully who started fights, the defense would be permitted to bring that out at trial,” Mr. Leatherman writes. “The defense would be limited to introducing the evidence as a character trait. Assuming such evidence exists, which I doubt, it might be in the school records. Therefore, I believe the defense has a legitimate reason to want to review the records.”
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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Re: Zimmerman Preparing Lawsuit Against NBC

Postby notyou2 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:27 pm

...yeah, Zimmerman is going to need all the help he can get or fabricate.
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Re: Zimmerman Preparing Lawsuit Against NBC

Postby john9blue on Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:12 pm

notyou2 wrote:...yeah, Zimmerman is going to need all the help he can get or fabricate.


what do you think is fabricated?

i mean, you can believe what you want to in your own world, but in the real world we use conclusive evidence and the judicial process to decide guilt, not knee-jerk accusations of white-guilt-fueled racism.

i personally don't care whether one hispanic dude that i don't know happens to be racist or not. this case serves the purpose of being a fascinating insight into the racist mind of the modern american liberal.
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Re: Zimmerman Preparing Lawsuit Against NBC

Postby rdsrds2120 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:24 pm

john9blue wrote:Image


Implausible!

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