Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:09 pmDukasaur wrote:Funkyterrance wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.
I tend to disagree, the operative word being "take".
Therefore the original statement in question is homophobic, no matter the context. It implies there is something wrong with it, otherwise it wouldn't be an insult.
You haven't got Clue #1 of what you're talking about. "Taking it up the ass" isn't, strictly speaking, an insult, although it can be used as one. It means, quite simply, that you are in a subservient position and are powerless to change that fact. Someone who is in a higher position than you might be insulting you by pointing out your predicament, but someone who is on the same level as you might be sympathetically commiserating. For instance, if you work at a company that has just unilaterally cut everyone's pay by 15%, and you'd love to quit but you can't because it's the only job in town right now, you might turn to your friends at work and say, "looks like we're taking it up the ass yet again."
Although the expression invokes anal sex, it's not primarily sexual. It quite simply means being in a subordinate position, as the person on the receiving end of anal sex generally is, regardless of whether it's homo- or hetero- sex. In fact, even if it involves sex it's not necessarily motivated by sexual desire. When sodomy is used in hazing rituals in gangs and fraternities, it almost never involves actual desire by the sodomiser for the sodomisee, but is simply a method of making the pleb understand that he has no rights and is basically a slave until his probation is over. Again, a senior gang member who says to the pleb, "you're going to take it up the ass now" might be insulting him, but a fellow pleb might be saying it with genuine sympathy.
Dukasaur wrote:Funkyterrance wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.
I tend to disagree, the operative word being "take".
Therefore the original statement in question is homophobic, no matter the context. It implies there is something wrong with it, otherwise it wouldn't be an insult.
You haven't got Clue #1 of what you're talking about. "Taking it up the ass" isn't, strictly speaking, an insult, although it can be used as one. It means, quite simply, that you are in a subservient position and are powerless to change that fact. Someone who is in a higher position than you might be insulting you by pointing out your predicament, but someone who is on the same level as you might be sympathetically commiserating. For instance, if you work at a company that has just unilaterally cut everyone's pay by 15%, and you'd love to quit but you can't because it's the only job in town right now, you might turn to your friends at work and say, "looks like we're taking it up the ass yet again."
Although the expression invokes anal sex, it's not primarily sexual. It quite simply means being in a subordinate position, as the person on the receiving end of anal sex generally is, regardless of whether it's homo- or hetero- sex. In fact, even if it involves sex it's not necessarily motivated by sexual desire. When sodomy is used in hazing rituals in gangs and fraternities, it almost never involves actual desire by the sodomiser for the sodomisee, but is simply a method of making the pleb understand that he has no rights and is basically a slave until his probation is over. Again, a senior gang member who says to the pleb, "you're going to take it up the ass now" might be insulting him, but a fellow pleb might be saying it with genuine sympathy.
I don't mean to interrupt duke but we are really talking about the term, not the actual act, and the way that the term is generally used and by whom. Is it commonly used by heterosexual people comfortable with homosexuality? In my experience it's the contrary.
We can all imagine very specific scenarios where the term could be interpreted another way than per usual, like at a visit to the proctologist or a fraternity hazing, but I think for the sake of argument it makes more sense to stick with the most common usage which implies homosexuality. And to be clear the phrase is question is "he/she takes it up the ass" not "taking it up the ass" in general. This distinction is very important and cannot be interchanged in order to strengthen your stance.
