Is Obama a Marxist?

[thegreekdog]

(19) Obama has "dramatically" reduced the size and power of the military --> during his presidency.

This is really news to me. How exactly has Obama accomplished this (not questioning thegreekdog, but rather the individual who posted the video). I'm trying to pretend he'll actually answer.

I thought the same thing, but didn't have the knowledge or data readily available to back up my claim.

I can't believe I watched the entire video.

[BigBallinStalin]

Okay, gang. I have to level with y'all.

I voted "yes." Obama is a Marxist.

PhatScotty fully addressed the opposition and was so successful that I could no longer lose sleep over being wrong about this.

[thegreekdog]

Okay, gang. I have to level with y'all.

I voted "yes." Obama is a Marxist.

PhatScotty fully addressed the opposition and was so successful that I could no longer lose sleep over being wrong about this.

Stop marxing around and get serious.

[Phatscotty]

Wise men of Marx.....

Is Obama closer to a Maoist than a Marxist?

[Phatscotty]

(1) Obama was raised a socialist --> not during his presidency. Related aside - I was raised to hate peas. Does that mean I hate peas now?
(2) Obama's mother was a socialist --> not during his presidency. Related aside - My mother hates peas. Does that mean I also hate peas?
(3) Obama attended socialist conferences and read communist books --> not during his presidency. Related aside - I also have read communist books. I've not attended socialist conferences, but I once attended a meeting of the law school Democrats. Does that mean I am also a socialist?
(4) Obama believes in spreading the wealth around --> not during his presidency (I asked for five things, no one has provided them).
(5) Obama was a community organizer --> not during his presidency. Related aside - I organized a bake sale. Does that make me a socialist?
(6) Obama briefriend hardcore radical communists --> not during his presidency. Related aside - I have friends who are socialists (hi Saxi!). Does that make me a socialist?
(7) Obama attended church with Jeremiah Wright --> not during his presidency. Related aside - I'm Catholic. Does that make me a pedophile?
(8) The group that has visited the White House is the SEIU --> during his presidency. Related aside - I thought the SEIU was a union; I guess it's just a terrorist group.
(9) Obama taught a law school class on Noam Chomskey --> not during his presidency. Related aside - I took a law school class on criminal law. Does that mean I practice criminal law?
(10) Obama endorsed Bernie Sanders --> I have no idea.
(11) The Communist Party endorsed Obama --> during his presidency. Related aside - Who endorsed Mitt Romney?
(12) Individual salvation depends on collective salvation --> not during his presidency. Related aside - Many Christians believe this. Does that make them socialist?
(13) Obama appointed "socialist" czars --> during his presidency. Given the rest of this video, I'm not taking this guy's word that these folks are socialist.
(14) Someone called him the Manchurian president --> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
(15) Obama believes every person has a right to healthcare --> not during his presidency. The Affordable Care Act does not provide a right to healthcare.
(16) Labor unions can organize without secret ballots --> not during his presidency. How is that socialist?
(17) Obama believes there is an inherent right to housing --> not during his presidency. Nothing the president has done gives anyone a right to housing.
(18) Obama promote an open borders agenda --> during his presidency. How is this socialist?
(19) Obama has "dramatically" reduced the size and power of the military --> during his presidency. How is this socialist? Hell, how do you not agree with this?
(20) Obama has promoted a "steeply graduated" income tax --> during his presidency. He hasn't signed a law raising tax rates substantially has he?

In sum, this guy is an idiot.

I understand a lot of this stuff did not happen during his presidency, but that is not my standard of how to judge someone. If that is how you do it, fine, but if you ask me, this guy was born to be a Socialist, raised to be a Socialist, it continued into his college career, into his faith (Social Christianity, Social Justice). He talks the talk, and if he is re-elected he will walk the walk. It's hard to pin him down during his time as a Senator, because he voted "present" 97% of the time and his college records have been physically sealed (is there a reason for this? what is the reason?). I do not believe Obama just set down his Socialism that he was raised with and sought out into adulthood. No way. This guy is a Saul Alinsky Socialist, all the way. I mean, "Professor "Obama taught Alinsky in Chicago.

[saxitoxin]

This is too much to delve into so I just picked one ...

#13 - "As president, Obama appointed 45 czars including socialists like Anita Dunn ..."

- Anita Dunn's first job out of university was working for Gerald Rafshoon, who most recently directed Michael Bloomberg's mayoral campaign
- Dunn's second job out of university was working for Hamilton Jordon, who would go on to become a member of Ross Perot's presidential campaign committee
- Dunn's third job out of university was working as media director for Senator Col. John Glenn, the former U.S. astronaut and retired U.S. Marine Corps pilot who earned the Distinguished Flying Cross after shooting down three MiG fighters of the Chinese Air Force over Korea
- Dunn's fourth job out of university was working as media director for Senator Bill Bradley, the two-time NBA champion Knicks small forward, and a current member of the board of directors of Raydiane, a developer of laser weapons for the U.S. military
- Dunn's fifth job out of university was working as media director for Senator Evan Bayh, who - after leaving the Senate - became a commentator for FOX News
- she then was hired by Barack Obama

This does not strike me as the typical career progression of a radical Marxist-Leninist. Maybe there's something in the rest of the video, though, but - if this is the standard of accuracy that exists throughout - I think I'm safe to just assume there's not.

[Phatscotty]

This is too much to delve into so I just picked one ...

#13 - "As president, Obama appointed 45 czars including socialists like Anita Dunn ..."

- Anita Dunn's first job out of university was working for Gerald Rafshoon, who most recently directed Michael Bloomberg's mayoral campaign
- Dunn's second job out of university was working for Hamilton Jordon, who would go on to become a member of Ross Perot's presidential campaign committee
- Dunn's third job out of university was working as media director for Senator Col. John Glenn, the former U.S. astronaut and retired U.S. Marine Corps pilot who earned the Distinguished Flying Cross after shooting down three MiG fighters of the Chinese Air Force over Korea
- Dunn's fourth job out of university was working as media director for Senator Bill Bradley, the two-time NBA champion Knicks small forward, and a current member of the board of directors of Raydiane, a developer of laser weapons for the U.S. military
- Dunn's fifth job out of university was working as media director for Senator Evan Bayh, who - after leaving the Senate - became a commentator for FOX News
- she then was hired by Barack Obama

This does not strike me as the typical career progression of a radical Marxist-Leninist. Maybe there's something in the rest of the video, though, but - if this is the standard of accuracy that exists throughout - I think I'm safe to just assume there's not.

Boom goes the dynamite

[saxitoxin]

This is too much to delve into so I just picked one ...

#13 - "As president, Obama appointed 45 czars including socialists like Anita Dunn ..."

- Anita Dunn's first job out of university was working for Gerald Rafshoon, who most recently directed Michael Bloomberg's mayoral campaign
- Dunn's second job out of university was working for Hamilton Jordon, who would go on to become a member of Ross Perot's presidential campaign committee
- Dunn's third job out of university was working as media director for Senator Col. John Glenn, the former U.S. astronaut and retired U.S. Marine Corps pilot who earned the Distinguished Flying Cross after shooting down three MiG fighters of the Chinese Air Force over Korea
- Dunn's fourth job out of university was working as media director for Senator Bill Bradley, the two-time NBA champion Knicks small forward, and a current member of the board of directors of Raydiane, a developer of laser weapons for the U.S. military
- Dunn's fifth job out of university was working as media director for Senator Evan Bayh, who - after leaving the Senate - became a commentator for FOX News
- she then was hired by Barack Obama

This does not strike me as the typical career progression of a radical Marxist-Leninist. Maybe there's something in the rest of the video, though, but - if this is the standard of accuracy that exists throughout - I think I'm safe to just assume there's not.

Boom goes the dynamite

First, the reason this is an edited clip is because Dunn and the audience erupt in laughter after she mentions Mao Zedong. It was the typically terrible attempt at humor of an elitist, pseudo-intellectual policy wonk with cobwebs in her vagina.

Second, this quote is from 2009; see the following articles from 2001 and 2008 -->

'War' is now more than a metaphor - by Dick Polman
September 13, 2001
Gingrich liked to quote Mao Tse-tung ("Politics is war without blood").
http://articles.philly.com/2001-09-13/n ... -sun-tzu/2

Bush is a Book Lover - by Karl Rove
December 26, 2008
We recommended volumes to each other (for example, he [George Bush] encouraged me to read a Mao biography ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123025595706634689.html

[thegreekdog]

(1) Obama was raised a socialist --> not during his presidency. Related aside - I was raised to hate peas. Does that mean I hate peas now?
(2) Obama's mother was a socialist --> not during his presidency. Related aside - My mother hates peas. Does that mean I also hate peas?
(3) Obama attended socialist conferences and read communist books --> not during his presidency. Related aside - I also have read communist books. I've not attended socialist conferences, but I once attended a meeting of the law school Democrats. Does that mean I am also a socialist?
(4) Obama believes in spreading the wealth around --> not during his presidency (I asked for five things, no one has provided them).
(5) Obama was a community organizer --> not during his presidency. Related aside - I organized a bake sale. Does that make me a socialist?
(6) Obama briefriend hardcore radical communists --> not during his presidency. Related aside - I have friends who are socialists (hi Saxi!). Does that make me a socialist?
(7) Obama attended church with Jeremiah Wright --> not during his presidency. Related aside - I'm Catholic. Does that make me a pedophile?
(8) The group that has visited the White House is the SEIU --> during his presidency. Related aside - I thought the SEIU was a union; I guess it's just a terrorist group.
(9) Obama taught a law school class on Noam Chomskey --> not during his presidency. Related aside - I took a law school class on criminal law. Does that mean I practice criminal law?
(10) Obama endorsed Bernie Sanders --> I have no idea.
(11) The Communist Party endorsed Obama --> during his presidency. Related aside - Who endorsed Mitt Romney?
(12) Individual salvation depends on collective salvation --> not during his presidency. Related aside - Many Christians believe this. Does that make them socialist?
(13) Obama appointed "socialist" czars --> during his presidency. Given the rest of this video, I'm not taking this guy's word that these folks are socialist.
(14) Someone called him the Manchurian president --> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
(15) Obama believes every person has a right to healthcare --> not during his presidency. The Affordable Care Act does not provide a right to healthcare.
(16) Labor unions can organize without secret ballots --> not during his presidency. How is that socialist?
(17) Obama believes there is an inherent right to housing --> not during his presidency. Nothing the president has done gives anyone a right to housing.
(18) Obama promote an open borders agenda --> during his presidency. How is this socialist?
(19) Obama has "dramatically" reduced the size and power of the military --> during his presidency. How is this socialist? Hell, how do you not agree with this?
(20) Obama has promoted a "steeply graduated" income tax --> during his presidency. He hasn't signed a law raising tax rates substantially has he?

In sum, this guy is an idiot.

I understand a lot of this stuff did not happen during his presidency, but that is not my standard of how to judge someone. If that is how you do it, fine, but if you ask me, this guy was born to be a Socialist, raised to be a Socialist, it continued into his college career, into his faith (Social Christianity, Social Justice). He talks the talk, and if he is re-elected he will walk the walk. It's hard to pin him down during his time as a Senator, because he voted "present" 97% of the time and his college records have been physically sealed (is there a reason for this? what is the reason?). I do not believe Obama just set down his Socialism that he was raised with and sought out into adulthood. No way. This guy is a Saul Alinsky Socialist, all the way. I mean, "Professor "Obama taught Alinsky in Chicago.

I guess we'll judge people differently then. I don't need any more reason to vote for someone other than Obama; apparently you need additional reasons (for example, that someone labelled him the Manchurian Candidate).

[thegreekdog]

This editorial (about the 2016 film) accurately describes the difference between my view on how to judge a politician and Phatscotty's view on how to judge a politician (in the last few paragraphs):

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood ... ouzas-2016

[BigBallinStalin]

This editorial (about the 2016 film) accurately describes the difference between my view on how to judge a politician and Phatscotty's view on how to judge a politician (in the last few paragraphs):

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood ... ouzas-2016

Great read, TGD. Thanks for sharing!

[spurgistan]

True story - when he was at Dartmouth, his name on campus was Distort DaNewsa.
Google the Dartmouth Review if you wanna feel bad about humanity.

[PLAYER57832]

I understand a lot of this stuff did not happen during his presidency, but that is not my standard of how to judge someone. If that is how you do it, fine, but if you ask me, this guy was born to be a Socialist, raised to be a Socialist, it continued into his college career, into his faith (Social Christianity, Social Justice). He talks the talk, and if he is re-elected he will walk the walk. It's hard to pin him down during his time as a Senator, because he voted "present" 97% of the time and his college records have been physically sealed (is there a reason for this? what is the reason?). I do not believe Obama just set down his Socialism that he was raised with and sought out into adulthood. No way. This guy is a Saul Alinsky Socialist, all the way. I mean, "Professor "Obama taught Alinsky in Chicago.

The standard is what he actually does.

The real fact here is that you consider ANYONE who doesn't embrace an extremely radical near far right agenda (in some areas you are far right, in others merely "conservative") to be "socialist" or "extremely liberal".

And that is even WITHOUT even considering why you seem to consider "socialism" about equivalent to "blood sacrificing Satanist".

[thegreekdog]

I understand a lot of this stuff did not happen during his presidency, but that is not my standard of how to judge someone. If that is how you do it, fine, but if you ask me, this guy was born to be a Socialist, raised to be a Socialist, it continued into his college career, into his faith (Social Christianity, Social Justice). He talks the talk, and if he is re-elected he will walk the walk. It's hard to pin him down during his time as a Senator, because he voted "present" 97% of the time and his college records have been physically sealed (is there a reason for this? what is the reason?). I do not believe Obama just set down his Socialism that he was raised with and sought out into adulthood. No way. This guy is a Saul Alinsky Socialist, all the way. I mean, "Professor "Obama taught Alinsky in Chicago.

The standard is what he actually does.

The real fact here is that you consider ANYONE who doesn't embrace an extremely radical near far right agenda (in some areas you are far right, in others merely "conservative") to be "socialist" or "extremely liberal".

And that is even WITHOUT even considering why you seem to consider "socialism" about equivalent to "blood sacrificing Satanist".

Phatscotty - kettle
Player - pot
In this post, Player calls Phatscotty black.

[PLAYER57832]

I understand a lot of this stuff did not happen during his presidency, but that is not my standard of how to judge someone. If that is how you do it, fine, but if you ask me, this guy was born to be a Socialist, raised to be a Socialist, it continued into his college career, into his faith (Social Christianity, Social Justice). He talks the talk, and if he is re-elected he will walk the walk. It's hard to pin him down during his time as a Senator, because he voted "present" 97% of the time and his college records have been physically sealed (is there a reason for this? what is the reason?). I do not believe Obama just set down his Socialism that he was raised with and sought out into adulthood. No way. This guy is a Saul Alinsky Socialist, all the way. I mean, "Professor "Obama taught Alinsky in Chicago.

The standard is what he actually does.

The real fact here is that you consider ANYONE who doesn't embrace an extremely radical near far right agenda (in some areas you are far right, in others merely "conservative") to be "socialist" or "extremely liberal".

And that is even WITHOUT even considering why you seem to consider "socialism" about equivalent to "blood sacrificing Satanist".

Phatscotty - kettle
Player - pot
In this post, Player calls Phatscotty black.

Not even close, unless you are painting yourself there.

I always back up what I say with evidence. Just because I disagree with you on many cases doesn't mean I distort and judge by titles. Saying "I support Obama, but only because he is better than the alternatives" is a long stretch from "Obama is a socialist..derp"

[thegreekdog]

I understand a lot of this stuff did not happen during his presidency, but that is not my standard of how to judge someone. If that is how you do it, fine, but if you ask me, this guy was born to be a Socialist, raised to be a Socialist, it continued into his college career, into his faith (Social Christianity, Social Justice). He talks the talk, and if he is re-elected he will walk the walk. It's hard to pin him down during his time as a Senator, because he voted "present" 97% of the time and his college records have been physically sealed (is there a reason for this? what is the reason?). I do not believe Obama just set down his Socialism that he was raised with and sought out into adulthood. No way. This guy is a Saul Alinsky Socialist, all the way. I mean, "Professor "Obama taught Alinsky in Chicago.

The standard is what he actually does.

The real fact here is that you consider ANYONE who doesn't embrace an extremely radical near far right agenda (in some areas you are far right, in others merely "conservative") to be "socialist" or "extremely liberal".

And that is even WITHOUT even considering why you seem to consider "socialism" about equivalent to "blood sacrificing Satanist".

Phatscotty - kettle
Player - pot
In this post, Player calls Phatscotty black.

Not even close, unless you are painting yourself there.

I always back up what I say with evidence. Just because I disagree with you on many cases doesn't mean I distort and judge by titles. Saying "I support Obama, but only because he is better than the alternatives" is a long stretch from "Obama is a socialist..derp"

HAHAHAHA... what?!?!

You hardly ever provide evidence. You make blanket statements like "extremely radical near far right agenda" (hint, it's in your super ironic and hypocritical post above that literally made me laugh out loud). You hate corporations, CEOs, rich people generally, and most Republicans because you think they are out to destroy your life, the environment, clean water, etc. Unbelievable.

[PLAYER57832]

[
You hardly ever provide evidence. You make blanket statements like "extremely radical near far right agenda" (hint, it's in your super ironic and hypocritical post above that literally made me laugh out loud). You hate corporations, CEOs, rich people generally, and most Republicans because you think they are out to destroy your life, the environment, clean water, etc. Unbelievable.

Oh PLEASE.

I hate no one. I DO believe that corporations, like individual people, need to be controlled. I know that the potential for damage from large corporations far outstrips the damage even an individual mass murderer can do.

Most people are not mass murderers, but we all recognize the need for laws and a police force to protect us from not just mass murders, but ALSO those who commit far lesser invasions and attacks.

Yet, somehow when it comes to corporations you all would have us believe that this magic "market" will just self-correct. The evidence shows otherwise over and over.. From the shirtwaist fires, worker revolts in Chicago, to modern Love Canal and silkwood, to very recent Massy Energy and BP disasters. The plain fact is that corporations are structured to make stockholders money, NOT to protect workers, or private citizens, never mind the environment.

That you think all that is "hyperbole" underscores a lack of education, not leaning toward rhetoric.

Its much like the way you threw out estimates of your health insurance and then declared "but you really don't care anyway". Your figures were WAY off.. I showed you why. But, becuase that doesn't support your political agenda, you simply ignore it.. and cannot be bothered to even verify.

[Phatscotty]

FINALLY! OBAMA'S MARXISM IS REVEALED!!!!!



You can only see it with BlueBlockers on...

[PLAYER57832]

I admit, I laughed...

Humor does help.

[jimboston]

In order to answer this question, I'll assume "Marxist" means "one who wishes to implement the means and seeks the ends as described in the Communist Manifesto."



(A) The following is a list of demands:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto#II._Proletarians_and_Communists

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form and combination of education with industrial production.

You don't need to believe and/or want to implement 100% of these ideas to be defined as "Marxist". If you want about 70% of this stuff that would be enough.

[saxitoxin]

I always back up what I say with evidence.

[Phatscotty]

[BigBallinStalin]

In order to answer this question, I'll assume "Marxist" means "one who wishes to implement the means and seeks the ends as described in the Communist Manifesto."



(A) The following is a list of demands:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto#II._Proletarians_and_Communists

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form and combination of education with industrial production.

You don't need to believe and/or want to implement 100% of these ideas to be defined as "Marxist". If you want about 70% of this stuff that would be enough.

No, not really. That's why when Lenin deviated from 100% Marxism, they called it Leninist-Marxism (or Marxist-Leninism). When Stalin deviated from that, it was called Stalinism.

According to your criteria, you would have to call all of the above "Marxism," but you'd be incapable of distinguishing those different political economies, so you inadvertently render useless the meaning of "Marxism."


Ask BvP. He gave me the low down.

[Funkyterrance]

I don't really think that this thread necessitates a poll but w/e...
Sure he is but what difference does it make? The USA is fced any way you slice it.

[BigBallinStalin]

I don't really think that this thread necessitates a poll but w/e...
Sure he is