For those who claim to be for freedom...

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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby Woodruff on Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:14 pm

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby Woodruff on Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:34 pm

I am beginning to wonder how long it will be before it becomes commonplace for individuals to be disappeared:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130708/01055723732/doj-says-public-has-no-right-to-know-about-secret-laws-feds-use-to-spy-us.shtml
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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:49 pm

http://rt.com/usa/state-secrets-nsa-lawsuit-continue-807/

Ok, so this is a very good thing. And yet...

Let's assume that this makes it to the SCOTUS and PRISM is deemed unconstitutional by them. That means that technically it was always unConstitutional as the Constitution never actually changed.

So what happens when they make a "PRISM 2.0" and just do an even better job of keeping it secret. I mean...what's to stop them from doing it and why shouldn't they?

I guess my point is... there should really be super, insanely fucking severe consequences for someone approving something that is this severely and painfully obviously unConstitutional. Otherwise, it'll just be repeated ad nauseum.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:10 pm

What is this constitution you speak of? Is it this?

Image

No, I think it is more likely this:

Image


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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:25 pm

Woodruff wrote:http://rt.com/usa/state-secrets-nsa-lawsuit-continue-807/

Ok, so this is a very good thing. And yet...

Let's assume that this makes it to the SCOTUS and PRISM is deemed unconstitutional by them. That means that technically it was always unConstitutional as the Constitution never actually changed.

So what happens when they make a "PRISM 2.0" and just do an even better job of keeping it secret. I mean...what's to stop them from doing it and why shouldn't they?


Nothing really. They have their congressional committees which "supervise" those intelligence agencies, so of course it'll work out. People believe that all the time whenever we place a bureaucracy or committee above some sector, so 5-10 years from now, something 'wild and unexpected' will occur.
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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:09 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:What is this constitution you speak of? Is it this?

Image

No, I think it is more likely this:

Image


Dude, that's the Constellation. Get your Star Trek ships straight, man!!!!
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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:57 pm

It was a test, don't worry. You passed. Just checking to see if you were commie or not.


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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby Woodruff on Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:11 am

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:26 am

So, what happens when the government continues violating the constitution? (Or rather when people continue to 'redefine' terms within the Constitution?)

Does it really matter? And, over the decades, what were the outcomes?
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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:02 pm

Woodruff wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:What is this constitution you speak of? Is it this?

Image

No, I think it is more likely this:

Image


Dude, that's the Constellation. Get your Star Trek ships straight, man!!!!


Looks like the Borg violated the Constellation.

Also - inb4 Jonesy.
Image
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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby Woodruff on Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:06 am

It appears from other research that this is an ongoing battle, but that this could even be a possibility casts a new shadow on the NSA data mining, in my opinion:

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/07/11-3

Here's a second article on it: http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2013/05/17/judge-chevron-ecuador-2/
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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:34 am

Hey, woodruff. In your opinion, do you find Snowden to be a traitor or whistleblower?
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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby Woodruff on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:38 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:Hey, woodruff. In your opinion, do you find Snowden to be a traitor or whistleblower?


Haven't I been clear in saying I don't think Snowden is necessarily (based on the information we currently know) a traitor? I thought I had.

That being said, someone could be a traitor AND a whistleblower, depending on who they provide particular information to.

I currently consider him to be somewhat of a patriot martyr, actually, awaiting further information. Why do you ask?
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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:11 pm

The only possibly good about this whole ordeal, is that the dude's name is Snowden. Catch-22 is probably my favorite novel, so every time I come across his name, I think of Snowden from the novel, and Yossarian being traumatized, and Snowden saying he's cold, and Yossarian helpless and in shock saying "There, there. There, there" since nothing else could be done.


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Re: For those who claim to be for freedom...

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:58 pm

Woodruff wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Hey, woodruff. In your opinion, do you find Snowden to be a traitor or whistleblower?


Haven't I been clear in saying I don't think Snowden is necessarily (based on the information we currently know) a traitor? I thought I had.

That being said, someone could be a traitor AND a whistleblower, depending on who they provide particular information to.

I currently consider him to be somewhat of a patriot martyr, actually, awaiting further information. Why do you ask?


You're the main poster for links related to him, so apparently you take a lot of interest in him.

What do you find patriotic about Snowden?
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