Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderators: Global Moderators, Discussions Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:47 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Social security is an insurance program, not a welfare program.

insurance - payment for damage, provided for a fee (e.g. social security)
welfare - payment for damage, provided for free (e.g. AFDC)

Where did Ayn Rand criticize people who made withdrawals from the U.S. social security system? Did you hear about it on YouTube or did you actually read something she wrote? I anticipate your forthcoming silence will be an indication of the former.


Don't challenge me son, you cannot handle me. Atlas Shrugged sits on my bookshelf right next to the Gulag Archipelago.
I've made the distinction myself between social insurance and welfare on this forum. You probably learned it from me. But she was opposed to both.


Ayn Rand favored Laissez-faire form of economics.

Laissez-faire is an economic environment in which transactions between private parties are free from tariffs, government subsidies, and enforced monopolies, with only enough government regulations sufficient to protect property rights against theft and aggression. The phrase laissez-faire is French and literally means "let [them] do", but it broadly implies "let it be," "let them do as they will," or "leave it alone." Scholars generally believe a laissez-faire state or a completely free market has never existed.[1][2]


You can visit aynrand.org where they blame Social Security for partially increasing our national debt somehow.

By now it’s no secret that I think Social Security is an unjust monstrosity by which the elderly live off the work of younger generations. So what should be done about it?

The only moral solution—the only one that puts an end to the wealth redistribution and protects people’s right to keep what they earn—is to abolish Social Security entirely.


But anyway you're asking a trick question because she was a philosopher who's claim to fame was her fiction. And Laissez-Faire.

Ayn Rand Atlas Shrugged wrote:Neither life nor happiness can be achieved by the pursuit of irrational whims. Just as man is free to attempt to survive by any random means, as a parasite, a moocher or a looter, but not free to succeed at it beyond the range of the moment—so he is free to seek his happiness in any irrational fraud, any whim, any delusion, any mindless escape from reality, but not free to succeed at it beyond the range of the moment nor to escape the consequences.

^This quote probably only makes sense if you read the book.


A lot of words to avoid answering a very simple question. Once again:

    Where did Ayn Rand criticize people who made withdrawals from the U.S. social security system?
The misquoted line from Rand's literary agent that's evolved into the meme which you bounded into this thread with, when properly quoted, dismisses your speech best:

    Since she had worked all her life and had paid into Social Security, she had a right to it. ("100 Voices: An Oral History of Ayn Rand")
User avatar
Sergeant saxitoxin
 
Posts: 1325
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:01 am
Location: the American Riviera
Medals: 12
Standard Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:20 am

I answered your question; it's a trick question because she wrote fiction books to promote Laissez-Faire. I'm pretty sure that I cannot even find a quote of her directly criticizing welfare. The characters in her books do though. If you read Atlas Shrugged you'd understand what a moocher and a looter are. Laissez-Faire, her beloved form of capitalism, does not leave room for Social Security. Now, obviously she did do some talking too, but she didn't directly criticize a lot. All of her essays pretty much rehash her old arguments about capitalism, sex, and religion. If you're going to argue that she was not against Social Security or welfare then you're going to run up against not only the liberals here, but also the conservatives. It's no-man's land. And as Ayn Rand said, the middle ground is the most dishonest & evil or something.

I specifically redirected to you that it was a trick question because I know how you like to twist everything to match your antagonistic, anarchistic agenda. I had to make sure I put that there in the beginning for people who read through.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Juan_Bottom
 
Posts: 1102
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: USA RULES! WHOOO!!!!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (3)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:25 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:I answered your question; it's a trick question because she wrote fiction books to promote Laissez-Faire. I'm pretty sure that I cannot even find a quote of her directly criticizing welfare. The characters in her books do though. If you read Atlas Shrugged you'd understand what a moocher and a looter are. Laissez-Faire, her beloved form of capitalism, does not leave room for Social Security. Now, obviously she did do some talking too, but she didn't directly criticize a lot. All of her essays pretty much rehash her old arguments about capitalism, sex, and religion. If you're going to argue that she was not against Social Security or welfare then you're going to run up against not only the liberals here, but also the conservatives. It's no-man's land. And as Ayn Rand said, the middle ground is the most dishonest & evil or something.

I specifically redirected to you that it was a trick question because I know how you like to twist everything to match your antagonistic, anarchistic agenda. I had to make sure I put that there in the beginning for people who read through.


I'll rephrase my question to a single word if that helps.

Juan_Bottom wrote: Rand called people who receive welfare, Social Security, and other funds through such programs "vultures"
Saxi wrote: Where?

User avatar
Sergeant saxitoxin
 
Posts: 1325
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:01 am
Location: the American Riviera
Medals: 12
Standard Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:28 am

Oh yeah, that should read "Parasites." MUCH BETTER.
Was it Nietzsche who called them vultures?
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Juan_Bottom
 
Posts: 1102
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: USA RULES! WHOOO!!!!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (3)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:31 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:Oh yeah, that should read "Parasites." MUCH BETTER.


Where?
User avatar
Sergeant saxitoxin
 
Posts: 1325
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:01 am
Location: the American Riviera
Medals: 12
Standard Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:33 am

I quoted a passage of her book where she said it. So did you.
But she did use the word a lot.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Juan_Bottom
 
Posts: 1102
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: USA RULES! WHOOO!!!!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (3)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:34 am

I just realized that you haven't actually read Rand. lol, you had me >=(
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Juan_Bottom
 
Posts: 1102
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: USA RULES! WHOOO!!!!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (3)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:34 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:I quoted a passage of her book where she said it.


No, you didn't.
User avatar
Sergeant saxitoxin
 
Posts: 1325
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:01 am
Location: the American Riviera
Medals: 12
Standard Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:40 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:You can visit aynrand.org where they blame Social Security for partially increasing our national debt somehow.


Oh, you know, unfunded liabilities and all that. Don't worry your simple brain about it; it wouldn't matter if I tried leading your obstinate ass to water. Your subsidies from the professional politicians will be coming in soon, so you can continue your anti-intellectual crusade against straw men and women.

Two thumbs up for Phat Bottom.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 3577
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:40 am

I mean-ah, it's been like 2 years since I read Atlas, but I'm pretty sure that Galt's-his-face said that.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Juan_Bottom
 
Posts: 1102
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: USA RULES! WHOOO!!!!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (3)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:46 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:I'm pretty sure


The Matron of ConquerClub wrote:my old professors said it but I don't know which ones or where or when


This is a good note to end on, Juan.

you're dismissed now

thanks
User avatar
Sergeant saxitoxin
 
Posts: 1325
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:01 am
Location: the American Riviera
Medals: 12
Standard Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:53 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:You can visit aynrand.org where they blame Social Security for partially increasing our national debt somehow.


Oh, you know, unfunded liabilities and all that. Don't worry your simple brain about it; it wouldn't matter if I tried leading your obstinate ass to water. Your subsidies from the professional politicians will be coming in soon, so you can continue your anti-intellectual crusade against straw men and women.

Two thumbs up for Phat Bottom.


I caught this one cause I was pretty sure that you were going to bandwagon with Saxi.

1) SS has not contributed 1 penny to our nation debt
2) If we only doubled the rate that billionaires pay in, SS would be fine for like another 70 years - big whoop

And what rate do they pay in at? The same as someone who makes $110K a year?
5/15/2012 Bernie Sanders



Can you imagine how little you could get away with if I took you off of foe? You must be loving this.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Juan_Bottom
 
Posts: 1102
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: USA RULES! WHOOO!!!!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (3)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:43 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:You can visit aynrand.org where they blame Social Security for partially increasing our national debt somehow.


Oh, you know, unfunded liabilities and all that. Don't worry your simple brain about it; it wouldn't matter if I tried leading your obstinate ass to water. Your subsidies from the professional politicians will be coming in soon, so you can continue your anti-intellectual crusade against straw men and women.

Two thumbs up for Phat Bottom.


I caught this one cause I was pretty sure that you were going to bandwagon with Saxi.

1) SS has not contributed 1 penny to our nation debt
2) If we only doubled the rate that billionaires pay in, SS would be fine for like another 70 years - big whoop

And what rate do they pay in at? The same as someone who makes $110K a year?
5/15/2012 Bernie Sanders



Can you imagine how little you could get away with if I took you off of foe? You must be loving this.


So, are you going to show sources for your claims, or will this be your finest playerian moment? Maybe you could Phat Bottom outta this one?

What's it gonna be, pilgrim?
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 3577
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:03 am

Come on BBS and Saxi, you're just being too detail-oriented.

Ayn Rand clearly wrote "John Galt said, 'I hate sociale security.'" Rand spelled the word "social" incorrectly, which should not make JB wrong.
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6217
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:38 am

thegreekdog wrote:Come on BBS and Saxi, you're just being too detail-oriented.

Ayn Rand clearly wrote "John Galt said, 'I hate sociale security.'" Rand spelled the word "social" incorrectly, which should not make JB wrong.


Based on this hard-hitting evidence, I'd argue that John Galt was in fact talking about collectivist security, i.e. state-funded security for the nation.

Marx my words, and you'll be sorry!
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 3577
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

PreviousNext

Return to Whose Forum is It Anyway?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Login