Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:21 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:There's a long string of "huh?" likes for Ryan. He likes Rands philosophy, but she turned hypocrite and basically took back everything that she said, he likes Rage, but Morello says that his pissed-off music is about Ryan, and he like Thomas Aquinas. The T.A. who hates women.


You can like someone even if you don't agree with everything they say.

For example, you are completely full of crap, but I still like you
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:22 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:He likes Rands philosophy, but she turned hypocrite and basically took back everything that she said,


I've never heard this before, can you provide me with some details on this?


You trust what Phat Bottom will give you?


I'll trust it enough to read it, then research and form an opinion.


well, what he said is not the truth. It's totally a joke at the expense of the truth.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:26 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Rand called people who receive welfare, Social Security, and other funds through such programs "vultures" and said that greed is what makes us great or some junk,... right?

Then she lost a fortune and spent her final years living on Social Security and Medicare.
I've said before that I don't know if Social Security allowed her to live in dignity; or if it caused her to lose her dignity.
I'm sure she would say something about how taking the money is ok because her point was that greed is good or something, but IMHO she fails.


So she didn't actually retract her comments as indicated in your post?


Actions speak louder than words. She didn't write any book retracting what she wrote or anything, she just went ahead and did everything she told us was wrong and parasitic to do.


Rand does not have to be perfect in order for her ideals and her philosophy she put forth to have merit. That's the worst argument ever, but I'm not getting into it further than that because this is all a joke anyways, and I only address this to point out the worst argument ever.

Like when a Christian tries to follow the Bible, and someone sees them do something that the Bible says don't do, and labels them a hypocrite forever......People do not need to be perfect in order to strive to be better and do the right thing.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:39 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:I answered your question; it's a trick question because she wrote fiction books to promote Laissez-Faire. I'm pretty sure that I cannot even find a quote of her directly criticizing welfare. The characters in her books do though. If you read Atlas Shrugged you'd understand what a moocher and a looter are. Laissez-Faire, her beloved form of capitalism, does not leave room for Social Security. Now, obviously she did do some talking too, but she didn't directly criticize a lot. All of her essays pretty much rehash her old arguments about capitalism, sex, and religion. If you're going to argue that she was not against Social Security or welfare then you're going to run up against not only the liberals here, but also the conservatives. It's no-man's land. And as Ayn Rand said, the middle ground is the most dishonest & evil or something.

I specifically redirected to you that it was a trick question because I know how you like to twist everything to match your antagonistic, anarchistic agenda. I had to make sure I put that there in the beginning for people who read through.


I'll rephrase my question to a single word if that helps.

Juan_Bottom wrote: Rand called people who receive welfare, Social Security, and other funds through such programs "vultures"
Saxi wrote: Where?



Don't stop now Saxi!!!
Image
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby patrickaa317 on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:40 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Rand called people who receive welfare, Social Security, and other funds through such programs "vultures" and said that greed is what makes us great or some junk,... right?

Then she lost a fortune and spent her final years living on Social Security and Medicare.
I've said before that I don't know if Social Security allowed her to live in dignity; or if it caused her to lose her dignity.
I'm sure she would say something about how taking the money is ok because her point was that greed is good or something, but IMHO she fails.


So she didn't actually retract her comments as indicated in your post?


Actions speak louder than words. She didn't write any book retracting what she wrote or anything, she just went ahead and did everything she told us was wrong and parasitic to do.


Now, I did find something she did actually say.
It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the “right” to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own money—and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration.


Her actions in this case make the words she spoke louder.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:41 pm

You guys!

Juan is trolling ALL of you!

Listen to her words, not Phat Bottoms. The interviewer here trolls Ayn Rand in a similar fashion as well.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:12 pm

thegreekdog wrote:Come on BBS and Saxi, you're just being too detail-oriented.

Ayn Rand clearly wrote "John Galt said, 'I hate sociale security.'" Rand spelled the word "social" incorrectly, which should not make JB wrong.


Ok, but what's a "moocher?" Or a "looter?" Or a "parasite?"


Phatscotty wrote:Rand does not have to be perfect in order for her ideals and her philosophy she put forth to have merit. That's the worst argument ever, but I'm not getting into it further than that because this is all a joke anyways, and I only address this to point out the worst argument ever.

I agree with you 100% but I want to be clear that my argument was about her, not about her ideas.

patrickaa317 wrote:Her actions in this case make the words she spoke louder.


1) You can opt-out of Social Security.
2) She was also on Medicaid.
3) Both programs go against Lassaiz Faire.


I mean, you can say that she paid into it and deserved that "refund," but the fact lives on that she was a two-pack a day smoker who needed Medicaid & Social Security to pay her medical expenses. She had also said that one who accepts government control is 'delivering oneself into gradual enslavement' and she said 'there can be no compromise on basic principles.' Yet in the end she compromised her principles and accepted help under an assumed name. She couldn't do it on her own like she said.
So Ayn Rand asked Evva Pryror, a consultant, to enroll her on her behalf and to have it sent to an assumed name.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:16 pm

She did specifically pay into the social security fund. She was just getting her own money back. That is the reason we pay into it. There is no problem with that, and that is exactly how it is supposed to work.

You would only have a point if she received corporate or public welfare.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby patrickaa317 on Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:39 pm

Perhaps you missed this part.

and they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:26 pm

Phatscotty wrote:She did specifically pay into the social security fund. She was just getting her own money back. That is the reason we pay into it. There is no problem with that, and that is exactly how it is supposed to work.

You would only have a point if she received corporate or public welfare.


Like Medicaid?
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:06 pm

Phatscotty wrote:She did specifically pay into the social security fund. She was just getting her own money back. That is the reason we pay into it. There is no problem with that, and that is exactly how it is supposed to work.

You would only have a point if she received corporate or public welfare.


Oh, and many some sources too, but it's proving too much for JB to be intellectually honest.

Troll on, JB.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:22 pm

but she was right that Social Security is a socialist program and if she were alive today she would identify it as the ponzi-scheme that it is
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:23 pm

Image
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:31 pm

Phatscotty wrote:but she was right that Social Security is a socialist program and if she were alive today she would identify it as the ponzi-scheme that it is


She did hate SS, it's no secret. She hated government interference in anything. Of course, being part of post-depression generation should have given her a better perspective, I think.

But,
AynRand.org/her foundation did and does
By now it’s no secret that I think Social Security is an unjust monstrosity by which the elderly live off the work of younger generations. So what should be done about it?

The only moral solution—the only one that puts an end to the wealth redistribution and protects people’s right to keep what they earn—is to abolish Social Security entirely.


But she still needed Social Security to maintain her quality of life. Her conversation with her counselor and her law firm about greed and her need for SS benefits is pretty infamous and funny.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby patrickaa317 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:00 am

Juan_Bottom wrote: Of course, being part of post-depression generation should have given her a better perspective, I think.



Actually, she was just under 40 years old when the depression ended, not part of the "post-depression" generation. "Post-depression" generation typically applies to people 20-40 years born after her.

I think I found the issue, you must be talking of a different Ayn Rand than the rest of us.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:30 am

patrickaa317 wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote: Of course, being part of post-depression generation should have given her a better perspective, I think.



Actually, she was just under 40 years old when the depression ended, not part of the "post-depression" generation. "Post-depression" generation typically applies to people 20-40 years born after her.

I think I found the issue, you must be talking of a different Ayn Rand than the rest of us.


I was talking about her life from Russia-to-America! Which would be one depression to another. A quick search though does show that my understanding of Russia following WWI may not be consistent with a "depression." It seems they weren't effected in the same way in St. Petersburg. So I was wrong about that.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:49 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:Image


Phat_Bottom is a troll.
5/15/2012 Bernie Sanders


Here's your original claim: " Social Security for partially increasing our national debt somehow."

which doubts that SS increases our national debt.

No source on that.

Then, it's
1) SS has not contributed 1 penny to our nation debt
2) If we only doubled the rate that billionaires pay in, SS would be fine for like another 70 years - big whoop


And where does 5/15/2012 Bernie Sanders support that
(1) SS does increase our national debt (or SS somehow doesn't do this).
(2) SS has not contributed 1 penny to our nation debt
(3) on the condition that "If we only doubled the rate that billionaires pay in, SS would be fine for like another 70 years - big whoop"

Without even providing a link or quoting the relevant parts, you're trolling at this point.


Furthermore, lol @ #3.


HEY, GUISE. Government spending does not increase out national debt, nor does it contribute a single penny to our national debt------

GIVEN THAT, we significantly tax the billionaires, millionaires, and what the hell, everyone!


JB gets a C- for effort. His Phatist condition is worsening.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:21 am

That was a set-up BBS. I knew what you would say.

link:
Image

I don't know what you'll say now though.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:04 am

Didn't read it! Can't take trolls seriously these days--especially when they fail to address the flaws in their previous posts.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby rdsrds2120 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:06 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:Image


Now we wait! What happens next??! A witty retort? Nothing? Has he won? Stay tuned!

-rd
Image
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:46 am

I strive to be a gracious user by intermittently granting the everyday user, troll, and/or idiot the benefit of the doubt.

Regarding the PhatScotty operation, it was as much as a success as I could hope for--although he's still on BBS-sanctioned parole.


With JB... his condition is worsening. I fear that the Phatism has metastasized...

Nevertheless, we must locate and resuscitate JB's desire to become intellectually honest. Hope is bleak, but the medical procedure must continue.


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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:04 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:Come on BBS and Saxi, you're just being too detail-oriented.

Ayn Rand clearly wrote "John Galt said, 'I hate sociale security.'" Rand spelled the word "social" incorrectly, which should not make JB wrong.


Ok, but what's a "moocher?" Or a "looter?" Or a "parasite?"


If I understand social security, and I think I do, a person contributes money to a fund which the government holds. At the end of a certain period of time, the money is released in increments to the person who contributed the money.

So, if that is the definition of a parasite, I suppose I'm mooching off of my local bank.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:17 pm

thegreekdog wrote:If I understand social security, and I think I do, a person contributes money to a fund which the government holds. At the end of a certain period of time, the money is released in increments to the person who contributed the money.

So, if that is the definition of a parasite, I suppose I'm mooching off of my local bank.


To be 100% honest, I read her book and I'm not all-together clear on her use of the word "Parasite." I think that it means anyone who accepts or lives on money that was redistributed to them. But again, I'm not for certain if her use of the word was limited to that. A "looter" is someone who takes your money with the threat of force, and a "moocher" is someone who doesn't work for a living, but instead relies on welfare and such. Ayn Rand believed that Social Security was wealth redistribution because when it went into effect, the elderly who were receiving payments hadn't hardly payed anything in. They were living off of the labor of the younger generations.
I'm sorry it's just that as an admitted Libertarian, I had assumed erroneously that you had read Atlas Shrugged. Weirdos out here love the book. So I apologize for that.

Her counselor and law firm affirm that they had to convince her to accept Social Security and Medicaid. But again I stress that she still accepted Social Security and Medicaid. I've noticed that everyone is taking exception to the fact that she accepted Social Security and they're ignoring my point that she also applied for Medicaid under a fake name.
And again, that's not me attempting to dismantle her philosophy. That's another argument entirely. Yeah I do think Libertarianism is nonsense and dangerous, but that's a whole other discussion. People need to stop worshiping Rand as Jesus-the-sequel who also hated the poor and accept that she was inherently fallible because she was human.
For example,
Thomas Jefferson has been a great influence on me. I believe him to be a great hero. I mean, just a mountain of a man. I love to read everything that he wrote, even the biography of his life. Did you know that he kept a lock of his wife's hair until he died? He couldn't bring him self to ever marry again after she died. That's beautiful and powerful and sad.
But I can accept that he was also a hypocrite and darkly ill-informed when it came to Africans. He railed against slavery but refused to free his slaves, even upon death. And he once wrote that slaves smell because half of their body waste emptied out through their sweat.
Even Marcus Aurelius, who's my favorite philosopher, was also a terrifying butcher. Men are men.
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:35 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:If I understand social security, and I think I do, a person contributes money to a fund which the government holds. At the end of a certain period of time, the money is released in increments to the person who contributed the money.

So, if that is the definition of a parasite, I suppose I'm mooching off of my local bank.


To be 100% honest, I read her book and I'm not all-together clear on her use of the word "Parasite." I think that it means anyone who accepts or lives on money that was redistributed to them. But again, I'm not for certain if her use of the word was limited to that. A "looter" is someone who takes your money with the threat of force, and a "moocher" is someone who doesn't work for a living, but instead relies on welfare and such. Ayn Rand believed that Social Security was wealth redistribution because when it went into effect, the elderly who were receiving payments hadn't hardly payed anything in. They were living off of the labor of the younger generations.
I'm sorry it's just that as an admitted Libertarian, I had assumed erroneously that you had read Atlas Shrugged. Weirdos out here love the book. So I apologize for that.

Her counselor and law firm affirm that they had to convince her to accept Social Security and Medicaid. But again I stress that she still accepted Social Security and Medicaid. I've noticed that everyone is taking exception to the fact that she accepted Social Security and they're ignoring my point that she also applied for Medicaid under a fake name.
And again, that's not me attempting to dismantle her philosophy. That's another argument entirely. Yeah I do think Libertarianism is nonsense and dangerous, but that's a whole other discussion. People need to stop worshiping Rand as Jesus-the-sequel who also hated the poor and accept that she was inherently fallible because she was human.
For example,
Thomas Jefferson has been a great influence on me. I believe him to be a great hero. I mean, just a mountain of a man. I love to read everything that he wrote, even the biography of his life. Did you know that he kept a lock of his wife's hair until he died? He couldn't bring him self to ever marry again after she died. That's beautiful and powerful and sad.
But I can accept that he was also a hypocrite and darkly ill-informed when it came to Africans. He railed against slavery but refused to free his slaves, even upon death. And he once wrote that slaves smell because half of their body waste emptied out through their sweat.
Even Marcus Aurelius, who's my favorite philosopher, was also a terrifying butcher. Men are men.


I'm not really sure what your post means, on the whole. I did read Atlas Shrugged. Ayn Rand is not on my list of people who I take guidance from about day to day life (or politics). Fiction is fiction in my mind. If she was an economist I'd probably be more likely to take her seriously. That's not to say things she believes aren't things I also believe, she's just not my personal savior or whatever.

I think government is evil, but in many cases is a necessary evil. For example, I am perfectly happy paying for roads and police and fire and military defense (defense only). What I would like to take out of government would fill up a lot of space, but suffice it to say there is a lot bureaucracy and unnecessary programs. There are also a lot of things that I think are boondoggles. Finally, from a "fringe" perspective, I think that a lot of social programs are inflated such that people rely on them rather than on friends and family (even when they have friends and family). Without going into a lot of details, if someone doesn't have a non-government support network, okay, government welfare is fine. If someone does have a non-government support network, I don't think government support is necessary. That's about it.

What annoys me is when people take this view (in the above) and morph it into "Ayn Rand" or "anarchist" or "hahahaha Libertarian fool."
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Re: Paul Ryan is a Marxist!

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:02 pm

A parasite/leech/moocher is someone who receives benefits but does not pay any money into the pot, doesn't have any skin in the game. This does not include people who really need the help or fall on hard times or have emergencies, it only includes people who don't feel like working and happily brag about not having to work.

for example...
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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