Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Symmetry on Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:53 pm

Night Strike wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:The burden of proof is on those seeking restrictions to prove that the thing is a human being deserving of the right to life. On top of it, those seeking restrictions on abortions must address the relation between this position and others on other issues which come about by viewing humans as individuals not dependent on a parasitic relationship to continue its "life."


Kind of like how Jews had to prove that they weren't the actual cause of Germany's problems pre-WWII?


Ah, the inevitable Holocaust analogy from the right wing, calling abortion essentially the same as anti-Semitism and the Shoah. Of course, very closely linked to the right's attempts to diminish the Holocaust.

After all- if an abortion clinic is just like a death camp, then death camps are no worse than your local hospital, and the Holocaust is mundane.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby tzor on Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:58 pm

Woodruff wrote:Words have meaning. Using them improperly simply to get an emotional reaction is a dishonest argument.


Words do have meanings. So given that, yield the floor to someone who says what they mean and means what they say: The Truth About MARGRET SANGER

At a March 1925 international birth control gathering in New York City, a speaker warned of the menace posed by the "black" and "yellow" peril. The man was not a Nazi or Klansman; he was Dr. S. Adolphus Knopf, a member of Margaret Sanger's American Birth Control League (ABCL), which along with other groups eventually became known as Planned Parenthood.

Sanger's other colleagues included avowed and sophisticated racists. One, Lothrop Stoddard, was a Harvard graduate and the author of The Rising Tide of Color against White Supremacy. Stoddard was something of a Nazi enthusiast who described the eugenic practices of the Third Reich as "scientific" and "humanitarian." And Dr. Harry Laughlin, another Sanger associate and board member for her group, spoke of purifying America's human "breeding stock" and purging America's "bad strains." These "strains" included the "shiftless, ignorant, and worthless class of antisocial whites of the South."

Not to be outdone by her followers, Margaret Sanger spoke of sterilizing those she designated as "unfit," a plan she said would be the "salvation of American civilization.: And she also spike of those who were "irresponsible and reckless," among whom she included those " whose religious scruples prevent their exercising control over their numbers." She further contended that "there is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped." That many Americans of African origin constituted a segment of Sanger considered "unfit" cannot be easily refuted.


So quit with the touchy feely shit Woodruff and stick to logic and facts. Margaret Sanger was a eugenist, one who wanted the unfit races EXTERMINATED. Unlike Hitler, she didn't have an army, so she worked towards that goal indirectly.

Birth control was presented both as an economic betterment vehicle and as a health measure that could lower the incidence of infant mortality. At the 1942 BCFA annual meeting, BCFA Negro Council board member Dr. Dorothy B. Ferebee–a cum laude graduate of Tufts and also president of Alpha Kappa Alpha, the nation's largest black sorority–addressed the delegates regarding Planned Parenthood's minority outreach efforts : With the Negro group some of the most difficult obstacles . . . to overcome are: (1) the concept that when birth control is proposed to them, it is motivated by a clever bit of machination to persuade them to commit race suicide; (2) the so-called "husband rejection" . . . (3) the fact that birth control is confused with abortion, and (4) the belief that is inherently immoral. However, as formidable as these objections may seem, when thrown against the total picture of the awareness on the part of the Negro leaders of the improved condition under Planned Parenthood, or the genuine interest and eagerness of the families themselves to secure the services which will give them a fair chance for health and happiness, the obstacles to the program are greatly outweighed.


In a 1921 article in the Birth Control Review, Sanger wrote, "The most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective." Reviewers of one of her 1919 articles interpreted her objectives as "More children from the fit, less from the unfit." Again, the question of who decides fitness is important, and it was an issue that Sanger only partly addressed. "The undeniably feebleminded should indeed, not only be discouraged but prevented from propagating their kind," she wrote.


Many African American women have been subject to nonconsensual forced sterilization. Some did not even know that they were sterilized until they tried, unsuccessfully, to have children. In 1973, Essence Magazine published an expose of forced sterilization practices in the rural South, where racist physicians felt they were performing a service by sterilizing black women without telling them. While one cannot blame Margaret Sanger for the actions of these physician, one can certainly see why Sanger's words are especially repugnant in a racial context.

The Planned Parenthood Federation of America has been protective of Margaret Sanger's reputation and defensive of allegations that she was a racist. They correctly point out that many of the attacks on Sanger come from anti-choice activists who have an interest in distorting both Sanger's work and that of Planned Parenthood. While it is understandable that Planned Parenthood would be protective of their founder's reputation, it cannot ignore the fact that Sanger edited the Birth Control review from its inception until 1929. Under her leadership, the magazine featured articles that embraced the eugenicist position. If Sanger were as anti-eugenics as Planned Parenthood says she was, she would not have printed as many articles sympathetic to eugenics as she did.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Symmetry on Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:04 pm

tzor wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Words have meaning. Using them improperly simply to get an emotional reaction is a dishonest argument.


Words do have meanings. So given that, yield the floor to someone who says what they mean and means what they say: The Truth About MARGRET SANGER

show


Yeah, crazy right wing nut jobs ain't really a source- are you seriously reading this stuff?
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Woodruff on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:09 am

john9blue wrote:so, woody, instead of using the word "genocide", i could have used the more pleasant-sounding (?) alternative, "mass homicide".


It would at least be closer to the truth, yes.

john9blue wrote:so tell me, what makes "genocide" worse than "mass homicide"?


Usually, the reasons behind them. But I wouldn't want you to have to think too hard about that.

john9blue wrote:props to funkyterrance for once again calling out the intellectual dishonesty and cowardice of those who disagree with me.


It must be so difficult to commend someone for agreeing with you. How impressive.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Woodruff on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:11 am

john9blue wrote:btw, with regards to those who think those who oppose abortion are "anti-woman":
if you believed that a fetus was human, wouldn't YOU be against killing fetuses, even in cases of rape, despite the fact that you are totally pro-woman and love gender equality?
quit pretending that our position is based on our so-called "misogyny". that's a fucking cop-out. the debate is and always has been about whether a fetus is human and whether killing it is an act of murder... it has NEVER been about trying to find clever ways to punish women because we just hate them so very much :roll:


I think for most people, your statements here are true. But I don't think they're necessarily true.

john9blue wrote:i suppose i should have expected it from the same people who call anyone who dislikes obama a "racist".


Prove it, Phatscotty.

john9blue wrote:how the hell can you take yourselves seriously... i sometimes wonder how many of you are trolling, as opposed to simply being ignorant or stupid.


Irony...it's not just a mineral!
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Woodruff on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:14 am

Night Strike wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:The burden of proof is on those seeking restrictions to prove that the thing is a human being deserving of the right to life. On top of it, those seeking restrictions on abortions must address the relation between this position and others on other issues which come about by viewing humans as individuals not dependent on a parasitic relationship to continue its "life."


Kind of like how Jews had to prove that they weren't the actual cause of Germany's problems pre-WWII?


Non-sequitarianism at it's finest.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Woodruff on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:19 am

tzor wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Words have meaning. Using them improperly simply to get an emotional reaction is a dishonest argument.


Words do have meanings. So given that, yield the floor to someone who says what they mean and means what they say: The Truth About MARGRET SANGER


Holy "trying to get an emotional reaction from a dishonest argument", Batman!

First of all, I would seriously question your source. Got anything rational for a source?

But hey, at least you tried to tie abortion to one crazy racist from the 1920s, in an attempt to tie the abortion movement of today to such things...well done!

tzor wrote:So quit with the touchy feely shit Woodruff and stick to logic and facts. Margaret Sanger was a eugenist, one who wanted the unfit races EXTERMINATED. Unlike Hitler, she didn't have an army, so she worked towards that goal indirectly.


So is it actually your position that if there is one individual within a movement's history, then that movement is clearly wrong? I suspect that's not a position you want to stick to...but I'll let you answer that.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:39 am

GreecePwns wrote:We've been through this before, and I don't think it was address

The burden of proof is on those seeking restrictions to prove that the thing is a human being deserving of the right to life. On top of it, those seeking restrictions on abortions must address the relation between this position and others on other issues which come about by viewing humans as individuals not dependent on a parasitic relationship to continue its "life."

An aside: it's funny how religious thought (which seeks to reward people for their behavior in a later life) and capitalist thought (which seeks to reward people for their behavior in this life) are fused into a single ideology, generic conservatism. Perhaps the capitalists do this using the overtly religious as pawns in their bid for power. I'd like to see whether the richest men in the nation are more or less religious than the national average.



The bogey man, The Capitalist, and his other Capitalist Friends, are out to get you, GP.

Lurking in the shadows is the Capitalist....
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:41 am

At JB got one thing right this past month: 'fetus/insert whatever technical term Sym desires = human? How so?'
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Funkyterrance on Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:59 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:At JB got one thing right this past month: 'fetus/insert whatever technical term Sym desires = human? How so?'


Ok BBS, would you mind putting down that bottle of scotch, dunking your head in a cold barrel of water and coming back to the computer to re-write that last post?

Tzor, the only problem with your analogy is that it only applies to people who are encouraging abortion of particular races/classes from what I can see? It seems like a sidetrack at best? I mean, don't all classes of people get abortions?
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:38 am

Funkyterrance wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:At JB got one thing right this past month: 'fetus/insert whatever technical term Sym desires = human? How so?'


Ok BBS, would you mind putting down that bottle of scotch, dunking your head in a cold barrel of water and coming back to the computer to re-write that last post?[/quotes]

<dunks head in barrel of scotch>

But isn't that the fundamental hinge upon this abortion issue? When does life begin? What constitutes as human, so that I may kill/preserve whatever?
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:05 am

tzor wrote:[ Margaret Sanger was a eugenist, one who wanted the unfit races EXTERMINATED. Unlike Hitler, she didn't have an army, so she worked towards that goal indirectly.

we have addressed this several times before. You are wrong .
Now, how about getting back to some of the earlier challenges you continue to ignore in favor of yet more tangents.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:24 am

I know you will never go back and read the earlier bits about this, so here, again:
tzor wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Words have meaning. Using them improperly simply to get an emotional reaction is a dishonest argument.


Words do have meanings. So given that, yield the floor to someone who says what they mean and means what they say: The Truth About MARGRET SANGER

At a March 1925 international birth control gathering in New York City, a speaker warned of the menace posed by the "black" and "yellow" peril. The man was not a Nazi or Klansman; he was Dr. S. Adolphus Knopf, a member of Margaret Sanger's American Birth Control League (ABCL), which along with other groups eventually became known as Planned Parenthood.

Sanger's other colleagues included avowed and sophisticated racists. One, Lothrop Stoddard, was a Harvard graduate and the author of The Rising Tide of Color against White Supremacy. Stoddard was something of a Nazi enthusiast who described the eugenic practices of the Third Reich as "scientific" and "humanitarian." And Dr. Harry Laughlin, another Sanger associate and board member for her group, spoke of purifying America's human "breeding stock" and purging America's "bad strains." These "strains" included the "shiftless, ignorant, and worthless class of antisocial whites of the South."

Not to be outdone by her followers, Margaret Sanger spoke of sterilizing those she designated as "unfit," a plan she said would be the "salvation of American civilization.: And she also spike of those who were "irresponsible and reckless," among whom she included those " whose religious scruples prevent their exercising control over their numbers." She further contended that "there is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped." That many Americans of African origin constituted a segment of Sanger considered "unfit" cannot be easily refuted.


So quit with the touchy feely shit Woodruff and stick to logic and facts. Margaret Sanger was a eugenist, one who wanted the unfit races EXTERMINATED. Unlike Hitler, she didn't have an army, so she worked towards that goal indirectly.

I see, so she associated with 2 avowed racists, at a time when you still had KKK members on the Supreme court, when Jews were not allowed to enter fancy clubs and the like... and blacks, well, many people did consider them inferior... and you consider that to mean she wants the extermination of all non-whites? (or at least blacks and asians?).

Some leap there...
The TRUTH is that at the time, women having too many babies was a major factor in keeping families in poverty. And, women had very litte say in the matter. They only real choice they had was to get married or not, and even that was not much of a choice in many cases.

So, yes, she said and has been quoted as saying that birth control would save America, and poor people in general. (not specifically blacks, though, of course, blacks were largely poor back then, since they were not paid what whites were).
tzor wrote:
Birth control was presented both as an economic betterment vehicle and as a health measure that could lower the incidence of infant mortality. At the 1942 BCFA annual meeting, BCFA Negro Council board member Dr. Dorothy B. Ferebee–a cum laude graduate of Tufts and also president of Alpha Kappa Alpha, the nation's largest black sorority–addressed the delegates regarding Planned Parenthood's minority outreach efforts : With the Negro group some of the most difficult obstacles . . . to overcome are: (1) the concept that when birth control is proposed to them, it is motivated by a clever bit of machination to persuade them to commit race suicide; (2) the so-called "husband rejection" . . . (3) the fact that birth control is confused with abortion, and (4) the belief that is inherently immoral. However, as formidable as these objections may seem, when thrown against the total picture of the awareness on the part of the Negro leaders of the improved condition under Planned Parenthood, or the genuine interest and eagerness of the families themselves to secure the services which will give them a fair chance for health and happiness, the obstacles to the program are greatly outweighed.

What is described there is not what was being promoted, its the distorted beliefs that kept people from using the planning services. In other words, many blacks DID believe that birth control was a means of getting them to eliminate their race. And, I am sure you will find a few leaders who actually espoused that view.. before they were ousted. You have jerks in every group. That doesn't mean it really was the motivation of most people or any real basis for the actions.

tzor wrote:
In a 1921 article in the Birth Control Review, Sanger wrote, "The most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective." Reviewers of one of her 1919 articles interpreted her objectives as "More children from the fit, less from the unfit." Again, the question of who decides fitness is important, and it was an issue that Sanger only partly addressed. "The undeniably feebleminded should indeed, not only be discouraged but prevented from propagating their kind," she wrote.
Ah yes... and yet, this was a prevalent view of the day. In fact, although Hitler showed us the very bad side of that type of idea, the idea of eugenics when it came to mentally deficient or certain other abnormalities was well accepted. She was a woman of her time. If you had a magic bullet to eliminate all mental retardation... might you consider it? The issue, today is that A. we know there is no such thing, because the causes are complicated. B. we have "room" for people with varied abilities in our current society. Being mentally retarded doesn't mean a life in a box-institution. C. Most of these issue are not genetically based anyway.

BUT... the idea of eugenics, very, very carefully considered is re-entering the field. Some people are choosing voluntary sterilization or to just not have kids. Of coruse, voluntary is the key, there. BUT science is now reaching the point when we can make these decisions, long before abortion becomes and issue.

tzor wrote:
Many African American women have been subject to nonconsensual forced sterilization. Some did not even know that they were sterilized until they tried, unsuccessfully, to have children. In 1973, Essence Magazine published an expose of forced sterilization practices in the rural South, where racist physicians felt they were performing a service by sterilizing black women without telling them. While one cannot blame Margaret Sanger for the actions of these physician, one can certainly see why Sanger's words are especially repugnant in a racial context.
The key there is "one cannot blame Sanger"

... and this was the south. Because some racist idiots decide to use her words in ways that are repugnant does not mean she is guilty of those same thoughts or of the actions they took.

tzor wrote:The Planned Parenthood Federation of America has been protective of Margaret Sanger's reputation and defensive of allegations that she was a racist.

Correct, and rightfully. She was not a racist, not in the context of her time.
tzor wrote:They correctly point out that many of the attacks on Sanger come from anti-choice activists who have an interest in distorting both Sanger's work and that of Planned Parenthood. While it is understandable that Planned Parenthood would be protective of their founder's reputation, it cannot ignore the fact that Sanger edited the Birth Control review from its inception until 1929. Under her leadership, the magazine featured articles that embraced the eugenicist position. If Sanger were as anti-eugenics as Planned Parenthood says she was, she would not have printed as many articles sympathetic to eugenics as she did.

Being pro eugenics in the 1920's in no way, shape or form means she was a racist. It means she saw the potential for using genes and planning to enhance the human race. This was before a lot of knowledge we have today about genes, before even the idea of women being true thinking human beings capable of things like higher mathematics, was widely accepted. In fact, a lot of the attack on her was notably to declare her an aberration as a woman.. precisely because she could think and did come out against powerful men.


AND... its all pretty besides the point, anyway. Claiming that Margaret Sanger's thinking contis the "end all" of thinking TODAY on birth control and its use makes as much sense as claiming that because Darwin got some facts wrong, the whole idea of evolution is wrong.

Once someone creates and idea, spread it, it instantly changes. Everyone hearing alters the basic idea, builds upon it, to make something else out of it.


And yes.. seems the same people believe both ideas are fully logical!
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby tzor on Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:45 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:we have addressed this several times before. You are wrong .


I am sorry that I tarnished the holy name of your saint with THE TRUTH. I know that normally blasphemy against the holy prophet founder of Planned Parenthood is punishable by death by silly ridicule but such is the way with radical abortionists.

But then again, that's typical of your viewing the world though progressive polarizing glasses that keeps out any fact not in accord with your worldview.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby tzor on Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:00 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:Being pro eugenics in the 1920's in no way, shape or form means she was a racist. It means she saw the potential for using genes and planning to enhance the human race.


I realize that you are completely and deliberately ignorant about the eugenics movement. The Nazi party was inspired by the eugenics movement in the United States. It was not limited to backs and was basically extended to all inferior non WASP races, especially immigrants fleeing oppression and coming into the country. Over the decades white non WASP races, especially Catholic Europeans were able to integrate through wealth to the acceptance level and thus avoid the planned elimination of their part of the genetic pool. Eventually the only major race left to eliminate for the sake of the gene pool was that of the African American whom the progressive had managed to return back to a dependency status thanks to the “New Deal.” (This was, of course after kicking them in the groin with laws that included the minimum wage laws, in an era where the unions were filled with predominantly white males.)
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby tzor on Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:05 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:AND... its all pretty besides the point, anyway. Claiming that Margaret Sanger's thinking contis the "end all" of thinking TODAY on birth control and its use makes as much sense as claiming that because Darwin got some facts wrong, the whole idea of evolution is wrong.


She founded the organization known as Planned Parenthood. Saying that her ideas are not a part of its foundation is a lot like saying that the United States, at the time of the civil war was no longer influenced in any matter by George Washington. (It, in fact, took the Progressive Dictator for Life FDR to break the "tradition" of the two term president, so strongly was the model that "the General" set for the office and the government.)

Holding your hands over your ears in an attempt to pretend history doesn't exist is stupid.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:22 am

tzor wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:AND... its all pretty besides the point, anyway. Claiming that Margaret Sanger's thinking contis the "end all" of thinking TODAY on birth control and its use makes as much sense as claiming that because Darwin got some facts wrong, the whole idea of evolution is wrong.


She founded the organization known as Planned Parenthood. Saying that her ideas are not a part of its foundation is a lot like saying that the United States, at the time of the civil war was no longer influenced in any matter by George Washington. (It, in fact, took the Progressive Dictator for Life FDR to break the "tradition" of the two term president, so strongly was the model that "the General" set for the office and the government.)

Holding your hands over your ears in an attempt to pretend history doesn't exist is stupid.

Its really more like saying that blacks should not be able to vote today because they could not in Washington's time.

Sangers BASIC idea is still there.. that women should be able to control their own bodies and reproduction. The rest is stuff brought out by the right, not accurate as you reported (but since we have refuted it before and you ignored it then, not wasting time today on that). AND even if it were true, is irrelevant to today's debate.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Funkyterrance on Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:45 pm

I think it may be relevant to point out that it is in basically all intelligent animals' instinctual nature to protect their young, unborn or not. I happen to know a few people, all from different backgrounds, who have had abortions and all of them ultimately regret it. Without social pressures how prevalent would abortions actually be? If one could deduce that they would be much less prevalent, it makes one wonder if the real issue isn't being skirted just a little?
As far the stance that abortion is just a woman's right to "control their own bodies", well I think this isn't even worthy of being called oversimplification, its plain ignorant of the fact that there is much more involved. Implying that a Pro-Lifer's objective is to take away a woman's control of her body is not only sexist, its offensive.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby tzor on Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:57 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote: Its really more like saying that blacks should not be able to vote today because they could not in Washington's time.


Apart from the ability of slaves to vote, FREE blacks could vote in some states of the United States at the time of the General SOURCE
State constitutions protecting voting rights for blacks included those of Delaware (1776), [5] Maryland (1776), [6] New Hampshire (1784), [7] and New York (1777). [8] (Constitution signer Rufus King declared that in New York, "a citizen of color was entitled to all the privileges of a citizen. . . . [and] entitled to vote.") [9] Pennsylvania also extended such rights in her 1776 constitution, [10] as did Massachusetts in her 1780 constitution. [11] In fact, nearly a century later in 1874, US Rep. Robert Brown Elliott (a black Republican from SC) queried: "When did Massachusetts sully her proud record by placing on her statute-book any law which admitted to the ballot the white man and shut out the black man? She has never done it; she will not do it." [12]

[5] The Constitutions of the Several Independent States of America (Boston: Norman and Bowen, 1785), p. 92, 1776 Delaware Constitution, "Declaration of Rights," #6.

[6] Constitutions (1785), p. 104, 1776 Maryland Constitution, "Declaration of Rights," #5.

[7] Constitutions (1785), p. 5, 1784 New Hampshire Constitution, "Bill of Rights," #11.

[8] Constitutions (1785), p. 58, 1777 New York Constitution, "Declaration of Rights," #7.

[9] Rufus King, The Life and Correspondence of Rufus King, Charles R. King, editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1900), p. 404.

[10] Constitutions (1785), p. 78, 1776 Pennsylvania Constitution, "Declaration of Rights," #7.

[11] Constitutions (1785), p. 8, 1780 Massachusetts Constitution, "Declaration of Rights," #9.

[12] Carter G. Woodson, Negro Orators and Their Orations (Washington, DC: The Associated Publishers, Inc., 1925), p. 310, Rep. Robert Brown Elliott from his speech on the Civil Rights Bill on January 6, 1874.


Now, aside from your Bidenesque understanding of history, what was the point you were trying to make Player? I'm not sure how this related to abortion. Or was this Progressive Tactic #1; aka the Bevis and Butthead attack on the "past" to show why "progress" is good.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby tzor on Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:03 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:Sangers BASIC idea is still there.. that women should be able to control their own bodies and reproduction.


That's not her idea whatsoever! It's the exact opposite, she didn't want to give women who could potentially bring inferior children to the world to have any choice in the matter whatsoever. This is why the 19th century feminists including Susan B. Anthony was totally against abortion because she felt that women would be forced by men to undergo a potentially life threatening procedure (which was true at the time). A significant number of women who have abortions are pressured to do so by partners, family or economic pressures.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:22 pm

A significant number of people in this thread don't know what abortion is (all of them). A significant number (just the OP) appeal to George Washington when discussing abortion for some reason as well.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby john9blue on Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:35 pm

i have a significant number of dicks
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:56 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:A significant number of people in this thread don't know what abortion is (all of them). .

I believe I know pretty well... but not going to get into that again.
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:21 pm

john9blue wrote:i have a significant number of dicks


I'd imagine that one person having two dicks would be significant.

What about 1 and a half dicks? Would that be significant?

Is this turning into an argument of the penis beard?
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Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby rdsrds2120 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:22 pm

tzor wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Sangers BASIC idea is still there.. that women should be able to control their own bodies and reproduction.


That's not her idea whatsoever! It's the exact opposite, she didn't want to give women who could potentially bring inferior children to the world to have any choice in the matter whatsoever. This is why the 19th century feminists including Susan B. Anthony was totally against abortion because she felt that women would be forced by men to undergo a potentially life threatening procedure (which was true at the time). A significant number of women who have abortions are pressured to do so by partners, family or economic pressures.


Therefore,
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