Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderators: Global Moderators, Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:12 am

tzor wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
tzor wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Its really more like saying that blacks should not be able to vote today because they could not in Washington's time.

Apart from the ability of slaves to vote, FREE blacks could vote in some states of the United States at the time of the General

lol--- yep, that absolutely proves my point wrong :roll: :roll:


Logical straw man is still logical straw man. Of couse that isn't an issue because you argue on emotion and not logic. Slaves could not vote and if there were any legal slaves they still would not be able to vote because they were non citizens. This is vastly different from women's sufferage, who were citizens but who were denied the vote. But, then again, they gained the vote by following a procedure of amending the constitution that was created "in Washington's time."

Not even close. Your claim was just spurious... and thus my statement. It was a response to what you said, directly.

If you wish to look back to George Washington to justify your views on Abortion... and then claim that treatment of blacks then was reasonable, well.....
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2580
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:37 am

Funkyterrance wrote:Player, I really appreciate your detailed response. It was very informative.
I suppose when I look at the debate about abortions I assume certain things are understood but evidently I am being hasty. I don't consider a miscarriage an abortion since it is a natural occurrence and no outside intervention has occurred. While this may not be technically correct, I think it is the obviously the general consensus.

It is assumed that this is the case. However, as I stated, when you look at the statistics, most people just don't realize that miscarriages ARE included or how many women getting an "abortion" are actually having a miscarriage removed. I know because I went through it. I have given the full and complete details in other threads.

Funkyterrance wrote:I am, essentially, a naturalist and therefore the aspect of intervening in the progress of the unborn goes pretty strongly against my beliefs. Lets just assume that the fetus is healthy, the mother is healthy and the baby when it is born will have half a chance at a reasonably happy life. These are the abortions that are in question as far as I am concerned. Adoption, as mentioned earlier, would solve any problems regarding underprivileged children.

Except, again, those assumptions are just false many times. Also, its not just a matter of "underprivilaged child" -- give a better home = good outcome. When a woman does not want to have a child, she generally does not take as good care of herself as she ought. The child that is born will NOT necessarily be healthy. This, again is not necessarily reflected in abortion statistics, because its just hard to track. Again, the data usually comes from voluntary surveys and how many women really are going to say they are aborting because they want to keep using illegal drugs? (just to point out one issue with the data). Some studies have tried to delve into this type of issue better... and that is part of why you see such a wide variation in numbers.
Funkyterrance wrote: I understand that many women who have abortions intend to ultimately have children but I am going to go back to my example of people I know who have terminated what they decided at the time were unwanted pregnancies. These individuals all have children now and still regret having the abortion. None of these people regret having their existing children.
Then your experience is not that diverse. You have also not visited many courts where child abuse is dealt with, not been to the homes of many seriously disabled children (note.. I am talking a good deal beyond being in a wheelchair, etc). Also, you have to define "regret". In many cases, the regret is that they would not have gotten themselves into that situation, or that they just wish things were different. I have NEVER..and its false to claim that abortion is something easy or that people like, but that is part of the whole point. This is a personnal choice, its not something that an outside entity.. people not even involved have any right to dictate.

Funkyterrance wrote:So, to maybe streamline the discussion would it be more beneficial to focus on those abortions that were not due to natural causes?
Except, that is a distortion. And, who gets to define "natural causes" anyway. IN my case, even when I had a "fully natural" miscarriage (I had several), because my blood is Rh neg, I had to get an injection each time. Each time, the lab techs and nurses would look at the "post partum" bit, not see a baby and literally assume I had an abortion.. and note, I am talking medical professionals, in a hospital. IF THEY misunderstand so heavily, you can imagine how the general population feels.

After that incident, I have had opportunity to talk with a LOT of local women. I was very far from the only one with such an experience. Again, when you realize that anywhere from 30-50% miscarry.

Funkyterrance wrote:I don't think that anyone in their right mind would object to a fetus being aborted when it will die anyway or is dead already, especially if this means the mother will be harmed by non-action. Any extreme opinions, one way or another, should be taken in light of the fact that they are just that: extreme.

Except, you are talking about the Governor of S Dakota, laws passed in Mississippi, etc, etc, etc. elsewhere. So, extreme or not, they are significant numbers in the US.
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2580
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby tzor on Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:59 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:If you wish to look back to George Washington to justify your views on Abortion... and then claim that treatment of blacks then was reasonable, well.....


First of all, I don't know where this whole "look back to George Washington" to justify anything about Abortion started from. I don't think he ever wrote anything on the subject. But I do strongly object to the progressive claptrap that suggests that somehow "we" are "superior" (and thus progressed) from those ignorant prmitives that lived just a few short centuries before us. In any age people can rise to the greatest heights and sink to the greatest depths and both can actually happen more or less at the same time in various parts around the world.

Nor did I claim that the teatment of (X) was well. There were a lot of groups that weren't treated well back then. There are a lot of groups that aren't treated well today.

But there were people who championed the better treatment of these people back then as they do today ... and in most cases the general public shout them down.
Image
User avatar
Corporal tzor
Media Volunteer
Media Volunteer
 
Posts: 599
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Medals: 9
Standard Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:04 pm

User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Juan_Bottom
 
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: USA RULES! WHOOO!!!!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (3)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby john9blue on Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:21 pm

^ that video is kinda hot
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)
User avatar
Captain john9blue
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 pm
Location: FlutterChi-town
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Symmetry on Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:32 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:Player, I really appreciate your detailed response. It was very informative.
I suppose when I look at the debate about abortions I assume certain things are understood but evidently I am being hasty. I don't consider a miscarriage an abortion since it is a natural occurrence and no outside intervention has occurred. While this may not be technically correct, I think it is the obviously the general consensus.


I think you may be missing out on one of the key examples of pro-life rhetoric going wrong. Outside intervention being key. Almost anything can be considered outside intervention- say a pregnant woman having a glass of wine, or a cigarette, engaging in strenuous activity, or any number of possible things that could cause a miscarriage.

The assumption that a fertilised egg is a human essentially makes any potential threat to birth criminal. Player is correct to point out that miscarriage is also abortion. The anti-abortion lobby has been involved recently in policing the pregnancy of women, and indeed criminalising them, for actions that might have caused a miscarriage abortion.

For what it's worth, I do think that it's good that you're seeing that the issue is more complicated than what can easily be put on to a bumper sticker, or made into a political slogan.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Symmetry
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:49 am
Medals: 2
Standard Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:52 pm

john9blue wrote:^ that video is kinda hot


Every time that I've gone on a date within the past year I've gotten a very similar speech.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Juan_Bottom
 
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: USA RULES! WHOOO!!!!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (3)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:31 pm

tzor wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:If you wish to look back to George Washington to justify your views on Abortion... and then claim that treatment of blacks then was reasonable, well.....


First of all, I don't know where this whole "look back to George Washington" to justify anything about Abortion started from.

If you are not going to bother to even stick by what you have written just 1-2 pages, back.. then your words are obviously not worth considering.
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2580
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:36 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
john9blue wrote:^ that video is kinda hot


Every time that I've gone on a date within the past year I've gotten a very similar speech.


Did you mistake her for the dog whilst in bed?

"THIS is my body."
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Woodruff on Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:32 am

Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4973
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Night Strike on Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:53 pm

Woodruff wrote:Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control


As long as the money is provided by private donations and not public dollars/mandates.
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
 
Posts: 8646
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby SirSebstar on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:51 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control


As long as the money is provided by private donations and not public dollars/mandates.


Because, yes you may not have a vote, and taxdollars are needed for an unfunded war you do not support, but good grief, lets not do anything that might actually be good for society. as long as i am not inflicted with it, i dont want to pay for it....
i heard someone use the word begrudge the other day... i think that must be it.

you begrudge someone from having birth control, which helps kids from ending up with kids and being overall less productive, not to mention bringing up ids in an environment that also does not help., but what, you want to keep subsidicing the big 250 corporations in the US?
religious beliefs should stay at home, they have no funcion outside your mind, and we all agree that your mind is still free (unless you are into scientology)
User avatar
Major SirSebstar
 
Posts: 7329
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:51 am
Location: SirSebstar is BACK. Highscore: Colonel Score: 2919 21/03/2011
Medals: 95
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (23) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (9) Training Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (4)
General Contribution (11)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Night Strike on Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:40 pm

SirSebstar wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control


As long as the money is provided by private donations and not public dollars/mandates.


Because, yes you may not have a vote, and taxdollars are needed for an unfunded war you do not support, but good grief, lets not do anything that might actually be good for society. as long as i am not inflicted with it, i dont want to pay for it....
i heard someone use the word begrudge the other day... i think that must be it.

you begrudge someone from having birth control, which helps kids from ending up with kids and being overall less productive, not to mention bringing up ids in an environment that also does not help., but what, you want to keep subsidicing the big 250 corporations in the US?
religious beliefs should stay at home, they have no funcion outside your mind, and we all agree that your mind is still free (unless you are into scientology)


Did that rant make sense to anyone?

The Constitution requires the federal government to provide for the national defense of this country. If you don't like how that national defense is being carried out, you elect people who will change the way it is carried out. Nowhere in the Constitution does it tell the federal government to provide free contraceptives to anybody. It doesn't matter who is in office, until the Constitution is changed, contraceptives can't be provided by the federal government.
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
 
Posts: 8646
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Symmetry on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:07 pm

Night Strike wrote:
SirSebstar wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control


As long as the money is provided by private donations and not public dollars/mandates.


Because, yes you may not have a vote, and taxdollars are needed for an unfunded war you do not support, but good grief, lets not do anything that might actually be good for society. as long as i am not inflicted with it, i dont want to pay for it....
i heard someone use the word begrudge the other day... i think that must be it.

you begrudge someone from having birth control, which helps kids from ending up with kids and being overall less productive, not to mention bringing up ids in an environment that also does not help., but what, you want to keep subsidicing the big 250 corporations in the US?
religious beliefs should stay at home, they have no funcion outside your mind, and we all agree that your mind is still free (unless you are into scientology)


Did that rant make sense to anyone?

The Constitution requires the federal government to provide for the national defense of this country. If you don't like how that national defense is being carried out, you elect people who will change the way it is carried out. Nowhere in the Constitution does it tell the federal government to provide free contraceptives to anybody. It doesn't matter who is in office, until the Constitution is changed, contraceptives can't be provided by the federal government.


Condoms are a national defense issue now? Did that rant make sense to anyone?
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Symmetry
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:49 am
Medals: 2
Standard Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:09 pm

Woodruff wrote:Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control

Actually, no. The Roman Catholic Church has long taken the position of encouraging ALL births , increasing the population, particularly among Roman Catholics, but not exclusively. That directs most of their dictates.

I see it as very much contrary to Christ's teachings, in much the same way that a whole group of nuns is now being investigated and possibly will be ousted by the Roman Catholic hierarchy. However, that gets into other topics.

The big issue in this thread was the idea that any intelligent person in this century could still believe that women can actually control whether they have a miscarriage or not, aside from taking various medications and so forth. In fact, many of the old "classics" like "falling down the stairs" and such definitely do not work, though there are some herbs that do.
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2580
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:11 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control


As long as the money is provided by private donations and not public dollars/mandates.


Not the question. The question is if an employer can deny an employee insurance coverage, dicate what insurance the employee has.. even deny them the ability to pay extra for specific coverage. (and yep, that specific issue was very much brought up).
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2580
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Symmetry on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:11 pm

Anyway, here's Akin on Abortion yet again:

Todd Akin, the Republican US Senate nominee from Missouri, stood by his latest comment over abortion on Wednesday, as physicians' groups condemned them as "part of an old-fashioned narrative" that presumed women are gullible and abortion doctors unethical.

Akin's claim that abortion doctors are "terrorists" who perform the procedure on women who aren't pregnant was made several years ago, on the floor of the House of Representatives. It resurfaced on Monday, two months after Akin caused a furore when he claimed that victims of "legitimate rape" could "shut down" potential pregnancies.


Yup, abortions on non-pregnant women, by terrorists.

Edit: forgot the link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/03/todd-akin-stands-by-abortion-comments?newsfeed=true
Last edited by Symmetry on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Symmetry
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:49 am
Medals: 2
Standard Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:14 pm

Night Strike wrote:
SirSebstar wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control


As long as the money is provided by private donations and not public dollars/mandates.


Because, yes you may not have a vote, and taxdollars are needed for an unfunded war you do not support, but good grief, lets not do anything that might actually be good for society. as long as i am not inflicted with it, i dont want to pay for it....
i heard someone use the word begrudge the other day... i think that must be it.

you begrudge someone from having birth control, which helps kids from ending up with kids and being overall less productive, not to mention bringing up ids in an environment that also does not help., but what, you want to keep subsidicing the big 250 corporations in the US?
religious beliefs should stay at home, they have no funcion outside your mind, and we all agree that your mind is still free (unless you are into scientology)


Did that rant make sense to anyone?

The Constitution requires the federal government to provide for the national defense of this country. If you don't like how that national defense is being carried out, you elect people who will change the way it is carried out. Nowhere in the Constitution does it tell the federal government to provide free contraceptives to anybody. It doesn't matter who is in office, until the Constitution is changed, contraceptives can't be provided by the federal government.


No where in the constitution does it say that women should be prohibited from following their doctor's advice, but somehow you feel free to declare that you and the federal government have that right, without even knowing the details.


Besides, the whole reason this thread began was because so many prominent individuals have opinions that absolutely impact the lives and health of millions of women.. but they cannot even be bothered to be sure their facts are correct. ANYONE who thinks that a woman can prevent getting pregnant when she is raped, without outside medications, etc. is just plain ignorant -- as in intentionally NOT looking at evidence and facts. Such a person has no business making ANY decisions for other people, never mind women's health decisions, and that is exactly what this is about.. not some high and mighty self-proclaimed religious beliefs or the constitution.
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2580
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:18 pm

Symmetry wrote:Anyway, here's Akin on Abortion yet again:

Todd Akin, the Republican US Senate nominee from Missouri, stood by his latest comment over abortion on Wednesday, as physicians' groups condemned them as "part of an old-fashioned narrative" that presumed women are gullible and abortion doctors unethical.

Akin's claim that abortion doctors are "terrorists" who perform the procedure on women who aren't pregnant was made several years ago, on the floor of the House of Representatives. It resurfaced on Monday, two months after Akin caused a furore when he claimed that victims of "legitimate rape" could "shut down" potential pregnancies.


Yup, abortions on non-pregnant women, by terrorists.

At this point, Akin himself is not much of a threat. Folks already know he is an idiot. However, the problem is that there are way too many individuals, still think such things are true and real.... plus, "strangly" a high percentage of them DO happen to be men.

And, there is also a high correlation between such thinking and thinking the earth is young, denying climate change.. in other words, there is a serious challenge to the idea that there is anything set, factual, scientific. Its all just political opinion... and THAT, regardless of your political beliefs is very, very scary.
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2580
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Symmetry on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:30 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Anyway, here's Akin on Abortion yet again:

Todd Akin, the Republican US Senate nominee from Missouri, stood by his latest comment over abortion on Wednesday, as physicians' groups condemned them as "part of an old-fashioned narrative" that presumed women are gullible and abortion doctors unethical.

Akin's claim that abortion doctors are "terrorists" who perform the procedure on women who aren't pregnant was made several years ago, on the floor of the House of Representatives. It resurfaced on Monday, two months after Akin caused a furore when he claimed that victims of "legitimate rape" could "shut down" potential pregnancies.


Yup, abortions on non-pregnant women, by terrorists.

At this point, Akin himself is not much of a threat. Folks already know he is an idiot. However, the problem is that there are way too many individuals, still think such things are true and real.... plus, "strangly" a high percentage of them DO happen to be men.

And, there is also a high correlation between such thinking and thinking the earth is young, denying climate change.. in other words, there is a serious challenge to the idea that there is anything set, factual, scientific. Its all just political opinion... and THAT, regardless of your political beliefs is very, very scary.


I'm honestly having trouble making sense of this thread as people try to justify Akin.

Here's my best try at putting together his statements on women.

pseudo-Akin wrote:Women are raped, sometimes legitimately and sometimes illegitimately. When it's legitimate rape they don't get pregnant, because women's bodies don't allow it but sometimes terrorists perform abortions on them anyway.

When illegitimately raped, women's bodies want to get pregnant, but shouldn't have an abortion, although terrorists make them


Akin is an idiot.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Symmetry
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:49 am
Medals: 2
Standard Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:41 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control


As long as the money is provided by private donations and not public dollars/mandates.


In other words, you want to have your cake and eat it too. I guess the abortion issue isn't actually as important to you as you claim.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4973
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:43 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control


Actually, no. The Roman Catholic Church has long taken the position of encouraging ALL births , increasing the population, particularly among Roman Catholics, but not exclusively. That directs most of their dictates.

I see it as very much contrary to Christ's teachings, in much the same way that a whole group of nuns is now being investigated and possibly will be ousted by the Roman Catholic hierarchy. However, that gets into other topics.

The big issue in this thread was the idea that any intelligent person in this century could still believe that women can actually control whether they have a miscarriage or not, aside from taking various medications and so forth. In fact, many of the old "classics" like "falling down the stairs" and such definitely do not work, though there are some herbs that do.


None of that has anything to do with religious folks being against abortion.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4973
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Symmetry on Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:44 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control


As long as the money is provided by private donations and not public dollars/mandates.


In other words, you want to have your cake and eat it too. I guess the abortion issue isn't actually as important to you as you claim.


That one kind of struck me as odd too. NS's objection always seemed religiously based, but profits before prophets on this.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Symmetry
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:49 am
Medals: 2
Standard Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby Night Strike on Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:03 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control


As long as the money is provided by private donations and not public dollars/mandates.


Not the question. The question is if an employer can deny an employee insurance coverage, dicate what insurance the employee has.. even deny them the ability to pay extra for specific coverage. (and yep, that specific issue was very much brought up).


Yes, it was the question. Woodruff talked about "free birth control", so I answered that it's not the government's job to provide it or to mandate it. If people want any form of contraceptive, it's their job to pay for it or for organizations to use donated money to provide it for free.

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Abortion rates drop thanks to free birth control. Isn't that what religious folks want?:
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2012/10/04/abortion.rates.plummet.with.free.birth.control


As long as the money is provided by private donations and not public dollars/mandates.


In other words, you want to have your cake and eat it too. I guess the abortion issue isn't actually as important to you as you claim.


Nope, I want the government to not provide things it can't afford and it isn't Constitutionally authorized to do.
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
 
Posts: 8646
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Legitimate Rape and Abortion- Republicans back-pedal

Postby john9blue on Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:05 pm

what makes me laugh is the left's claim that akin's comments are believed by ALL republicans and are even part of the party's platform. it's a blatant attempt to rally the base using an idiotic black-and-white worldview of "us vs. them".
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)
User avatar
Captain john9blue
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 pm
Location: FlutterChi-town
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)

PreviousNext

Return to Babble-On Five

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mrswdk

Login