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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:46 pm

Great posts, JB! <pukes>

Median Voter Theorem
The median voter theorem seems to explain a few of the phenomena that occur in majoritarian voting systems. First, it may explain why politicians tend to adopt similar platforms and campaign rhetoric. In order to win the majority vote, politicians must tailor their platforms to the median voter.[2] For example, in the United States, the Democratic and Republican candidates typically move their campaign platforms towards the middle during general elections campaigns. Just as sellers in the private market try to win over their competitor’s customers by making slight changes to better their products, so, too, do politicians deviate only slightly from their opponent’s platform so as to gain votes.[2]

Second, the median voter theorem may explain why radical candidates or parties rarely get elected. If a politician is, for example, an extreme liberal on the very left end of the political spectrum, they will not capture nearly as many votes as the politician whose campaign platforms are more moderate. Finally, the theorem may explain why two major political parties tend to emerge in majoritarian voting systems (Duverger's law). Indeed, in the United States there are countless political parties, but only two major parties play a part in almost every major election: the Democratic and Republican parties. According to the median voter theorem third parties will rarely, if ever, win elections for same reason why extreme candidates do not tend to win. The major parties tend to co-opt the platforms of the minor parties in order to secure more votes.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_voter_theorem

(note the assumptions in the beginning of that link. A bit bold, but for mainstream economists, tractability matters more so than accuracy over all situations. To compensate, there's a weak version and a strong version. See: Explanations, first two paragraphs).
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:49 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Why did you laugh?


Because he essentially shot himself in the foot. Again.


Again....so? People who actually pay attention to Romney know that this has always been his plan. There's nothing new here. Obama always claims that Romney's plans will only end up in massive tax cuts to "the rich", yet he always ignores that Romney plans to cut deductions. Romney's simply pointing out the reality of the plan that Obama continues to distort.


It's called class warfare, and it's Obama's hallmarx
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:18 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Why did you laugh?


Because he essentially shot himself in the foot. Again.


Again....so? People who actually pay attention to Romney know that this has always been his plan. There's nothing new here. Obama always claims that Romney's plans will only end up in massive tax cuts to "the rich", yet he always ignores that Romney plans to cut deductions. Romney's simply pointing out the reality of the plan that Obama continues to distort.


It's called class warfare, and it's Obama's hallmarx


You do realize that "class warfare" isn't the same as "not always getting your way", right?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:29 pm

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:36 pm

According to Sen. Patty Murray, an anonymous Senate Republican is blocking a cost of living increase for America’s disabled veterans.

A Republican senator is using an anonymous hold to block the traditionally bipartisan cost of living adjustment that is given to America’s disabled veterans and their survivors.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Night Strike on Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:35 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
According to Sen. Patty Murray, an anonymous Senate Republican is blocking a cost of living increase for America’s disabled veterans.

A Republican senator is using an anonymous hold to block the traditionally bipartisan cost of living adjustment that is given to America’s disabled veterans and their survivors.


While veterans are the only group that the federal government should be providing any sort of continual assistance to, this story just goes to show how everything the government does has become political. Why should cost of living adjustments from the government be automatic when the government has record debts and the private sector has had very little in raises over the past 4 years? No one can even ask these questions because it's all a political game about hating whichever group of people is affected.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:42 pm

Because the cost of living has gone up and these veterans were promised this when they enlisted the first time?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Night Strike on Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:44 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:Because the cost of living has gone up and these veterans were promised this when they enlisted the first time?


Because the government continues to monetize the debt and institute inflation?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:44 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:
According to Sen. Patty Murray, an anonymous Senate Republican is blocking a cost of living increase for America’s disabled veterans.

A Republican senator is using an anonymous hold to block the traditionally bipartisan cost of living adjustment that is given to America’s disabled veterans and their survivors.


While veterans are the only group that the federal government should be providing any sort of continual assistance to, this story just goes to show how everything the government does has become political. Why should cost of living adjustments from the government be automatic when the government has record debts and the private sector has had very little in raises over the past 4 years? No one can even ask these questions because it's all a political game about hating whichever group of people is affected.


Why is it so difficult for you to just say "Senator Murray is wrong on this one"? I mean, you would clearly seem to believe that he is. Why must you reflexively support anything done by a Republican?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Night Strike on Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:17 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:
According to Sen. Patty Murray, an anonymous Senate Republican is blocking a cost of living increase for America’s disabled veterans.

A Republican senator is using an anonymous hold to block the traditionally bipartisan cost of living adjustment that is given to America’s disabled veterans and their survivors.


While veterans are the only group that the federal government should be providing any sort of continual assistance to, this story just goes to show how everything the government does has become political. Why should cost of living adjustments from the government be automatic when the government has record debts and the private sector has had very little in raises over the past 4 years? No one can even ask these questions because it's all a political game about hating whichever group of people is affected.


Why is it so difficult for you to just say "Senator Murray is wrong on this one"? I mean, you would clearly seem to believe that he is. Why must you reflexively support anything done by a Republican?


You must not even know who Senator Murray is considering you used "he".
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby john9blue on Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:56 pm

Night Strike wrote:
You must not even know who Senator Murray is considering you used "he".


so??

ignorance has never stopped woody before!
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:12 am

Murry is the commenter, the Republican is anonymous.

But that's a deflection away from Woodsruff's point.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:17 am

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:
According to Sen. Patty Murray, an anonymous Senate Republican is blocking a cost of living increase for America’s disabled veterans.

A Republican senator is using an anonymous hold to block the traditionally bipartisan cost of living adjustment that is given to America’s disabled veterans and their survivors.


While veterans are the only group that the federal government should be providing any sort of continual assistance to, this story just goes to show how everything the government does has become political. Why should cost of living adjustments from the government be automatic when the government has record debts and the private sector has had very little in raises over the past 4 years? No one can even ask these questions because it's all a political game about hating whichever group of people is affected.


Why is it so difficult for you to just say "Senator Murray is wrong on this one"? I mean, you would clearly seem to believe that he is. Why must you reflexively support anything done by a Republican?


You must not even know who Senator Murray is considering you used "he".


I don't. I also don't remember claiming that I did. Is it relevant? Were you going to answer the question, or try to distract from it?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:18 am

john9blue wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
You must not even know who Senator Murray is considering you used "he".


so??

ignorance has never stopped woody before!


How is this relevant, Mr Moderate?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby john9blue on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:43 am

Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
You must not even know who Senator Murray is considering you used "he".


so??

ignorance has never stopped woody before!


How is this relevant, Mr Moderate?


well, you have an awfully strong opinion for someone who doesn't even know what they're talking about.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:48 am

john9blue wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
You must not even know who Senator Murray is considering you used "he".


so??

ignorance has never stopped woody before!


How is this relevant, Mr Moderate?


well, you have an awfully strong opinion for someone who doesn't even know what they're talking about.


So because I don't know whether a specific Senator is a male or a female, that means I "don't know what I'm talking about" on the issue? If the issue wasn't "What is the gender of the specific Senator", then how is that relevant, Mr Moderate? Or does Mr Moderate just want to try to take a potshot without any substance?

Is the Senator's gender relevant to this Veteran's issue?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby john9blue on Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:33 am

Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
You must not even know who Senator Murray is considering you used "he".


so??

ignorance has never stopped woody before!


How is this relevant, Mr Moderate?


well, you have an awfully strong opinion for someone who doesn't even know what they're talking about.


So because I don't know whether a specific Senator is a male or a female, that means I "don't know what I'm talking about" on the issue? If the issue wasn't "What is the gender of the specific Senator", then how is that relevant, Mr Moderate? Or does Mr Moderate just want to try to take a potshot without any substance?

Is the Senator's gender relevant to this Veteran's issue?


there's no avoiding the fact that you don't know the facts about the issue and didn't read the article. your ignorance of murray's gender makes that crystal clear.

i'm just saying it's bad form to enter a debate when you haven't made any attempt to understand the issue. and you do that far too often.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:09 pm

john9blue wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
You must not even know who Senator Murray is considering you used "he".


so??

ignorance has never stopped woody before!


How is this relevant, Mr Moderate?


well, you have an awfully strong opinion for someone who doesn't even know what they're talking about.


So because I don't know whether a specific Senator is a male or a female, that means I "don't know what I'm talking about" on the issue? If the issue wasn't "What is the gender of the specific Senator", then how is that relevant, Mr Moderate? Or does Mr Moderate just want to try to take a potshot without any substance?

Is the Senator's gender relevant to this Veteran's issue?


there's no avoiding the fact that you don't know the facts about the issue and didn't read the article. your ignorance of murray's gender makes that crystal clear.

i'm just saying it's bad form to enter a debate when you haven't made any attempt to understand the issue. and you do that far too often.


You believe that I, as a DISABLED MILITARY VETERAN, don't understand the facts about this issue, WHICH IS A DISABLED MILITARY VETERAN ISSUE, simply because I didn't know the gender of a Senator involved?

This tells me that you're irrevokably stupid. There's really no other way to put it, you stupid f*ck.

Something's crystal clear alright, and it's your lack of objectivity, Mr. Moderate.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby tzor on Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:24 pm

I haven't been paying attention to this thread. I was going to ask what all the BS was but decided to go back and find the actual cause of the problem instead.

So we are all complaining about a COLA for disabled veterans? I could go into a long and complex rant about the nature of inflation, but Woodruff's right, blocking COLA for disabled veterans is just wrong in every way. Baseline accounting is wrong and should not be used, but for basic people who are dependent on the government who have given themselves to the government (since their disability is in service to the government) having the government then take from their wages because of inflation (caused by the Federal Reserve) is so wrong from a moral standard I'm surprised anyone would be for it.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:30 pm

tzor wrote:I haven't been paying attention to this thread. I was going to ask what all the BS was but decided to go back and find the actual cause of the problem instead.

So we are all complaining about a COLA for disabled veterans? I could go into a long and complex rant about the nature of inflation, but Woodruff's right, blocking COLA for disabled veterans is just wrong in every way. Baseline accounting is wrong and should not be used, but for basic people who are dependent on the government who have given themselves to the government (since their disability is in service to the government) having the government then take from their wages because of inflation (caused by the Federal Reserve) is so wrong from a moral standard I'm surprised anyone would be for it.


I'm not actually sure that anyone has said they're for the idea of blocking the COLA for disabled veterans, other than one Republican Senator. Mostly, the thread has gone like this:

Juan_Bottom made a post trying to incriminate (successfully, in my opinion) one individual from the Republican Party, and probably pretending that it was a wide-scale Republican plan (unsuccessfully).
Night Strike attempted to defend that Senator with some weird excuse while very vaguely trying to say without saying that he thinks the Senator is wrong.
I called Night Strike out on that bit of partisanship.
Phatscotty and john9blue started claiming that because I didn't realize the Senator was female, my entire position in the thread was based on ignorance.
I called the two of them out on their bullshit, knowing that my personal involvement in the issue led me to be very familiar with it.

Sometimes, I wonder if Phatscotty appreciates john9blue's supremely repressed gag reflex.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby john9blue on Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:37 pm

here's what happened: you saw the title, thought "i'm a disabled veteran too, i want my cost of living adjustment, that anonymous republican is doing a bad thing"

and yes, they probably ARE doing a bad thing

but you just jump right in with your baseless opinions, without even doing the slightest bit of research, and expect us to respect them? why? just because you might be one of the people affected?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Symmetry on Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:48 pm

john9blue wrote:here's what happened: you saw the title, thought "i'm a disabled veteran too, i want my cost of living adjustment, that anonymous republican is doing a bad thing"

and yes, they probably ARE doing a bad thing

but you just jump right in with your baseless opinions, without even doing the slightest bit of research, and expect us to respect them? why? just because you might be one of the people affected?


So you essentially think the Republicans are doing something bad, but don't want someone else pointing it out?

A baseless accusation that you probably agree with?

Hmm.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby john9blue on Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:16 pm

Symmetry wrote:
john9blue wrote:here's what happened: you saw the title, thought "i'm a disabled veteran too, i want my cost of living adjustment, that anonymous republican is doing a bad thing"

and yes, they probably ARE doing a bad thing

but you just jump right in with your baseless opinions, without even doing the slightest bit of research, and expect us to respect them? why? just because you might be one of the people affected?


So you essentially think the Republicans are doing something bad, but don't want someone else pointing it out?

A baseless accusation that you probably agree with?

Hmm.


the journey to the right answer is more important than the destination.

people can believe whatever the hell they want, but if it's for the wrong reasons then i will call them out on it. that's why most of my criticism is directed at liberals despite the fact that i often agree with them.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:18 pm

john9blue wrote:here's what happened: you saw the title, thought "i'm a disabled veteran too, i want my cost of living adjustment, that anonymous republican is doing a bad thing"

and yes, they probably ARE doing a bad thing

but you just jump right in with your baseless opinions, without even doing the slightest bit of research, and expect us to respect them? why? just because you might be one of the people affected?


Baseless opinions? Exactly what was it that I said, OTHER THAN A MISTAKE OF GENDER OF A SENATOR, that was baseless, John? Please be precise here. Thanks!
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:19 pm

john9blue wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
john9blue wrote:here's what happened: you saw the title, thought "i'm a disabled veteran too, i want my cost of living adjustment, that anonymous republican is doing a bad thing"

and yes, they probably ARE doing a bad thing

but you just jump right in with your baseless opinions, without even doing the slightest bit of research, and expect us to respect them? why? just because you might be one of the people affected?


So you essentially think the Republicans are doing something bad, but don't want someone else pointing it out?

A baseless accusation that you probably agree with?

Hmm.


the journey to the right answer is more important than the destination.

people can believe whatever the hell they want, but if it's for the wrong reasons then i will call them out on it. that's why most of my criticism is directed at liberals despite the fact that i often agree with them.


The journey to the destination has been my entire adult life, you stupid shit. What about YOUR "journey to the destination" in this thread, Mr Moderate?

You've concluded that my reasons "are the wrong reasons" BECAUSE I WAS MISTAKEN ABOUT THE GENDER OF A SENATOR?

And this is your defense following my clear point that "I don't know anything about the issue" was shot full of holes, right?

Like I said, I hope Phatscotty appreciates your supremely repressed gag reflex.
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