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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:40 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:That would be a 5.5% increase over three years, national average is 3%. Now you aren't even happy with 150% of the national average at 4.5%? Anyone making minimum should get twice the raise as those who aren't making minimum wage? Why stop at $8.50? Why not make minimum wage $17.00 like WalMart is paying employees in the booming state of ND?


No, I'm not happy with the national "average" and you shouldn't be either. A national average could be far lower than what's needed to live on in New Jersey; I don't know what the pay that's needed is, and you can find it since it's for your argument.
Besides this, the national average is below the rate of inflation, and so does the proposed increase which the article articulated, so anyone living on minimum wage would be perpetually impoverished, no matter how hard they work... and that leads to people living on welfare of various sorts.

It's reckless and ridiculous to argue that people should be kept below the national average "just because." This isn't an argument about fairness.

Meanwhile CEO pay is up more than 725% since 1978, while everyone else's wages are up 5.7%. How does that 5.7% compare to inflation since '78? You should be angry about this, and more supportive of the American worker.

New Jersey actually ranks 11th in the nation for income disparity between rich and poor.

So don't you attack or blame American workers/producers.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:25 pm

Symmetry wrote:So you were BSing, and your position was false?


What? Did you read the star tribune article?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:28 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:That would be a 5.5% increase over three years, national average is 3%. Now you aren't even happy with 150% of the national average at 4.5%? Anyone making minimum should get twice the raise as those who aren't making minimum wage? Why stop at $8.50? Why not make minimum wage $17.00 like WalMart is paying employees in the booming state of ND?


No, I'm not happy with the national "average" and you shouldn't be either. A national average could be far lower than what's needed to live on in New Jersey; I don't know what the pay that's needed is, and you can find it since it's for your argument.
Besides this, the national average is below the rate of inflation, and so does the proposed increase which the article articulated, so anyone living on minimum wage would be perpetually impoverished, no matter how hard they work... and that leads to people living on welfare of various sorts.

It's reckless and ridiculous to argue that people should be kept below the national average "just because." This isn't an argument about fairness.

Meanwhile CEO pay is up more than 725% since 1978, while everyone else's wages are up 5.7%. How does that 5.7% compare to inflation since '78? You should be angry about this, and more supportive of the American worker.

New Jersey actually ranks 11th in the nation for income disparity between rich and poor.

So don't you attack or blame American workers/producers.


The minimum wage was not initially put in place to live on and support a family, over the years people slowly started to think that's what it is for.

What are the stats on Public employees, Union bosses, and even public unions?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:34 pm

WHHHHHAAAAAAAAMMMMMMOOOOOOO!!!!

Sorry to butt in, guise, but the price of a job includes the wage and additional compensation like insurance and those benefits.

OKAY, resume screaming about families and minimum wage and politics.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Lootifer on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:36 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote: WHHHHHAAAAAAAAMMMMMMOOOOOOO!!!!

Sorry to butt in, guise, but the price of a job includes the wage and additional compensation like insurance and those benefits.

OKAY, resume screaming about families and minimum wage and politics.

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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:38 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:So you were BSing, and your position was false?


What? Did you read the star tribune article?


Aye, i did. It didn't say anything you wanted it to say. Perhaps you could restate your arguments.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:40 pm

What do I know about that? But I believe that they are underpaid as well, whatever they are making.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:53 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:Herpa derp a derp. I don't add a wage and other benefits like health insurance together. A herpa derp. Derp Derp. Derp derp erp.



Thanks, JB!
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:55 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Herpa derp a derp. I don't add a wage and other benefits like health insurance together. A herpa derp. Derp Derp. Derp derp erp.



Thanks, JB!


Stay classy BBS.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:04 pm

Symmetry wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Herpa derp a derp. I don't add a wage and other benefits like health insurance together. A herpa derp. Derp Derp. Derp derp erp.



Thanks, JB!


Stay classy BBS.




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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:06 pm

Symmetry wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Herpa derp a derp. I don't add a wage and other benefits like health insurance together. A herpa derp. Derp Derp. Derp derp erp.



Thanks, JB!


Stay classy BBS.



He's been at my throat ever since I foed him for making fun of the Holocaust. My entire family, save for my grandfather, was slaughtered by the Germans. Before my grandfather finally passed on, he spent several weeks reliving the war, waking up after naps and begging us to help him find his missing sister, who was abducted in Norway. And BBS had the audacity to tell me that I would find it therapeutic to join him in making fun of my massacred relatives.

And so, BBS continues to follow me around, berating me because he knows I can't see what he's writing so long as he's foed. He's the weakest person on this website. Pathetic... Attacking me constantly because I find his insulting the victims of the Holocaust to be so revolting. He's a goddamn bully and a cad.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:13 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Herpa derp a derp. I don't add a wage and other benefits like health insurance together. A herpa derp. Derp Derp. Derp derp erp.



Thanks, JB!


Stay classy BBS.



He's been at my throat ever since I foed him for making fun of the Holocaust. My entire family, save for my grandfather, was slaughtered by the Germans. Before my grandfather finally passed on, he spent several weeks reliving the war, waking up after naps and begging us to help him find his missing sister, who was abducted in Norway. And BBS had the audacity to tell me that I would find it therapeutic to join him in making fun of my massacred relatives.

And so, BBS continues to follow me around, berating me because he knows I can't see what he's writing so long as he's foed. He's the weakest person on this website. Pathetic... Attacking me constantly because I find his insulting the victims of the Holocaust to be so revolting. He's a goddamn bully and a cad.


Nah, I pretty much criticize/joke about you when you're being stupid. Then your panties get in a twist, and since you can't respond logically, you'll resort to this story about how you don't like Holocaust jokes--regardless of how many Israelis and/or Jews joke about the Holocaust. It's a sad situation, but I can't be here to drag you out of it.

People deal with such issues in different ways, as I've already mentioned, but some of them--like you--really don't know how to recover, even though they've never experienced the traumatic experience. For some, the imagination is strong, and the humor is lacking. For others, recovery has happened, and the jokes are flowing.

See ya around, JB.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:13 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Herpa derp a derp. I don't add a wage and other benefits like health insurance together. A herpa derp. Derp Derp. Derp derp erp.



Thanks, JB!


Stay classy BBS.



He's been at my throat ever since I foed him for making fun of the Holocaust. My entire family, save for my grandfather, was slaughtered by the Germans. Before my grandfather finally passed on, he spent several weeks reliving the war, waking up after naps and begging us to help him find his missing sister, who was abducted in Norway. And BBS had the audacity to tell me that I would find it therapeutic to join him in making fun of my massacred relatives.

And so, BBS continues to follow me around, berating me because he knows I can't see what he's writing so long as he's foed. He's the weakest person on this website. Pathetic... Attacking me constantly because I find his insulting the victims of the Holocaust to be so revolting. He's a goddamn bully and a cad.


Aye- he's an anything goes poster of late.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:18 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:That would be a 5.5% increase over three years, national average is 3%. Now you aren't even happy with 150% of the national average at 4.5%? Anyone making minimum should get twice the raise as those who aren't making minimum wage? Why stop at $8.50? Why not make minimum wage $17.00 like WalMart is paying employees in the booming state of ND?


No, I'm not happy with the national "average" and you shouldn't be either. A national average could be far lower than what's needed to live on in New Jersey; I don't know what the pay that's needed is, and you can find it since it's for your argument.
Besides this, the national average is below the rate of inflation, and so does the proposed increase which the article articulated, so anyone living on minimum wage would be perpetually impoverished, no matter how hard they work... and that leads to people living on welfare of various sorts.

It's reckless and ridiculous to argue that people should be kept below the national average "just because." This isn't an argument about fairness.

Meanwhile CEO pay is up more than 725% since 1978, while everyone else's wages are up 5.7%. How does that 5.7% compare to inflation since '78? You should be angry about this, and more supportive of the American worker.

New Jersey actually ranks 11th in the nation for income disparity between rich and poor.

So don't you attack or blame American workers/producers.


How many New Jersey citizens make minimum wage?

Here is a helpful web page:

http://livingwage.mit.edu/states/34

Note that on the "typical hourly wage" section, none of those amounts are at the current minimum wage or the proposed $8.50 per hour minimum wage.

The question I ask and will continue to ask - Why do people lobby for an increased minimum wage? Do minimum wage earners hold a high amount of sway over Congress, state represntatives, or executives? Do minimum wage earners vote in a higher percentage than others? Are politicians doing this out of the goodness of their hearts?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:19 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Herpa derp a derp. I don't add a wage and other benefits like health insurance together. A herpa derp. Derp Derp. Derp derp erp.



Thanks, JB!


Stay classy BBS.



He's been at my throat ever since I foed him for making fun of the Holocaust. My entire family, save for my grandfather, was slaughtered by the Germans. Before my grandfather finally passed on, he spent several weeks reliving the war, waking up after naps and begging us to help him find his missing sister, who was abducted in Norway. And BBS had the audacity to tell me that I would find it therapeutic to join him in making fun of my massacred relatives.

And so, BBS continues to follow me around, berating me because he knows I can't see what he's writing so long as he's foed. He's the weakest person on this website. Pathetic... Attacking me constantly because I find his insulting the victims of the Holocaust to be so revolting. He's a goddamn bully and a cad.


Aye- he's an anything goes poster of late.


You guys are doing the whiny, bitchy thing again?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:23 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Herpa derp a derp. I don't add a wage and other benefits like health insurance together. A herpa derp. Derp Derp. Derp derp erp.



Thanks, JB!


Stay classy BBS.



He's been at my throat ever since I foed him for making fun of the Holocaust. My entire family, save for my grandfather, was slaughtered by the Germans. Before my grandfather finally passed on, he spent several weeks reliving the war, waking up after naps and begging us to help him find his missing sister, who was abducted in Norway. And BBS had the audacity to tell me that I would find it therapeutic to join him in making fun of my massacred relatives.

And so, BBS continues to follow me around, berating me because he knows I can't see what he's writing so long as he's foed. He's the weakest person on this website. Pathetic... Attacking me constantly because I find his insulting the victims of the Holocaust to be so revolting. He's a goddamn bully and a cad.


Aye- he's an anything goes poster of late.


You guys are doing the whiny, bitchy thing again?


Keep your claws in, please, TGD.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:25 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Herpa derp a derp. I don't add a wage and other benefits like health insurance together. A herpa derp. Derp Derp. Derp derp erp.



Thanks, JB!


WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!


WAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!


WAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!.


You guys are doing the whiny, bitchy thing again?



Well, if you can't refute another's position using reasonable arguments, then get smug and bitchy. That's the general strategy, isn't it?


(confirmed)
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:28 pm

At the risk of being accused of bias (although, really, I don't always agree with BBS), the history of BBS vs. Symmetry or BBS vs. JB goes something like this:

Step One: JB/Symmetry make a point.
Step Two: BBS attempts to refute.
Step Three: JB/Symmetry do not adequately refute BBS's refutation.
Step Four: BBS notes the inadequacy.
Step Five: JB/Symmetry accuse BBS of being... whatever... ad hominem attacks usually.

When BBS gets into discussions with others (say, for example, Neoteny or Haggis), this process does not happen. Therefore, it's not BBS that's "an anything goes poster of late." If that was the case, there would be any number of forum regulars who we could sub in for JB or Symmetry. Perhaps it's you who is doing something wrong (I would say Step Five).
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:30 pm

thegreekdog wrote:At the risk of being accused of bias (although, really, I don't always agree with BBS), the history of BBS vs. Symmetry or BBS vs. JB goes something like this:

Step One: JB/Symmetry make a point.
Step Two: BBS attempts to refute.
Step Three: JB/Symmetry do not adequately refute BBS's refutation.
Step Four: BBS notes the inadequacy.
Step Five: JB/Symmetry accuse BBS of being... whatever... ad hominem attacks usually.

When BBS gets into discussions with others (say, for example, Neoteny or Haggis), this process does not happen. Therefore, it's not BBS that's "an anything goes poster of late." If that was the case, there would be any number of forum regulars who we could sub in for JB or Symmetry. Perhaps it's you who is doing something wrong (I would say Step Five).


Although I may think that you're a socialist destroying our freedoms since you advocate for public education, I'll have to agree with you on this.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:33 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:At the risk of being accused of bias (although, really, I don't always agree with BBS), the history of BBS vs. Symmetry or BBS vs. JB goes something like this:

Step One: JB/Symmetry make a point.
Step Two: BBS attempts to refute.
Step Three: JB/Symmetry do not adequately refute BBS's refutation.
Step Four: BBS notes the inadequacy.
Step Five: JB/Symmetry accuse BBS of being... whatever... ad hominem attacks usually.

When BBS gets into discussions with others (say, for example, Neoteny or Haggis), this process does not happen. Therefore, it's not BBS that's "an anything goes poster of late." If that was the case, there would be any number of forum regulars who we could sub in for JB or Symmetry. Perhaps it's you who is doing something wrong (I would say Step Five).


Although I may think that you're a socialist destroying our freedoms since you advocate for public education, I'll have to agree with you on this.


Everyone has their way to parachute out of an argument or discussion. I tend to ignore it until the topic moves to the second page. Phatscotty posts a random Batman video. Pimpdave makes a TPDS joke or leaves the building. I guess this is just the way JB and Symmetry have elected to get out of an argument or discussion. I happen to think it's absurd, but, again, I'm allegedly biased.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:34 pm

thegreekdog wrote:At the risk of being accused of bias (although, really, I don't always agree with BBS), the history of BBS vs. Symmetry or BBS vs. JB goes something like this:

Step One: JB/Symmetry make a point.
Step Two: BBS attempts to refute.
Step Three: JB/Symmetry do not adequately refute BBS's refutation.
Step Four: BBS notes the inadequacy.
Step Five: JB/Symmetry accuse BBS of being... whatever... ad hominem attacks usually.

When BBS gets into discussions with others (say, for example, Neoteny or Haggis), this process does not happen. Therefore, it's not BBS that's "an anything goes poster of late." If that was the case, there would be any number of forum regulars who we could sub in for JB or Symmetry. Perhaps it's you who is doing something wrong (I would say Step Five).


Well, he did get that ban for calling for my death. I'd say that's a bit of an ad hominem attack taken to the extreme. Still, of course, your analysis is unbiased and it's totally me attacking BBS.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:36 pm

Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:At the risk of being accused of bias (although, really, I don't always agree with BBS), the history of BBS vs. Symmetry or BBS vs. JB goes something like this:

Step One: JB/Symmetry make a point.
Step Two: BBS attempts to refute.
Step Three: JB/Symmetry do not adequately refute BBS's refutation.
Step Four: BBS notes the inadequacy.
Step Five: JB/Symmetry accuse BBS of being... whatever... ad hominem attacks usually.

When BBS gets into discussions with others (say, for example, Neoteny or Haggis), this process does not happen. Therefore, it's not BBS that's "an anything goes poster of late." If that was the case, there would be any number of forum regulars who we could sub in for JB or Symmetry. Perhaps it's you who is doing something wrong (I would say Step Five).


Well, he did get that ban for calling for my death. I'd say that's a bit of an ad hominem attack taken to the extreme. Still, of course, your analysis is unbiased and it's totally me attacking BBS.


If you recall (you may not), I criticized him for that decision at the time it occurred. So did many others. I don't think anyone took his side. Further, it was likely a venting of frustration for many instances of the above discussion process. Not an excuse, but it's not like the decision to create a cake or death thread was created in a vacuum.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:42 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:At the risk of being accused of bias (although, really, I don't always agree with BBS), the history of BBS vs. Symmetry or BBS vs. JB goes something like this:

Step One: JB/Symmetry make a point.
Step Two: BBS attempts to refute.
Step Three: JB/Symmetry do not adequately refute BBS's refutation.
Step Four: BBS notes the inadequacy.
Step Five: JB/Symmetry accuse BBS of being... whatever... ad hominem attacks usually.

When BBS gets into discussions with others (say, for example, Neoteny or Haggis), this process does not happen. Therefore, it's not BBS that's "an anything goes poster of late." If that was the case, there would be any number of forum regulars who we could sub in for JB or Symmetry. Perhaps it's you who is doing something wrong (I would say Step Five).


Well, he did get that ban for calling for my death. I'd say that's a bit of an ad hominem attack taken to the extreme. Still, of course, your analysis is unbiased and it's totally me attacking BBS.


If you recall (you may not), I criticized him for that decision at the time it occurred. So did many others. I don't think anyone took his side. Further, it was likely a venting of frustration for many instances of the above discussion process. Not an excuse, but it's not like the decision to create a cake or death thread was created in a vacuum.


You feel I provoked him by arguing my points?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:45 pm

Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:At the risk of being accused of bias (although, really, I don't always agree with BBS), the history of BBS vs. Symmetry or BBS vs. JB goes something like this:

Step One: JB/Symmetry make a point.
Step Two: BBS attempts to refute.
Step Three: JB/Symmetry do not adequately refute BBS's refutation.
Step Four: BBS notes the inadequacy.
Step Five: JB/Symmetry accuse BBS of being... whatever... ad hominem attacks usually.

When BBS gets into discussions with others (say, for example, Neoteny or Haggis), this process does not happen. Therefore, it's not BBS that's "an anything goes poster of late." If that was the case, there would be any number of forum regulars who we could sub in for JB or Symmetry. Perhaps it's you who is doing something wrong (I would say Step Five).


Well, he did get that ban for calling for my death. I'd say that's a bit of an ad hominem attack taken to the extreme. Still, of course, your analysis is unbiased and it's totally me attacking BBS.


If you recall (you may not), I criticized him for that decision at the time it occurred. So did many others. I don't think anyone took his side. Further, it was likely a venting of frustration for many instances of the above discussion process. Not an excuse, but it's not like the decision to create a cake or death thread was created in a vacuum.


You feel I provoked him by arguing my points?


No. I feel he was frustrated by discussions with you that degenerated into ad hominem attacks. Not provocation and not an excuse, because I certainly would not have done what BBS did, no matter how much our discussions degenderated. And you and I have had similar discussion procedurals (which again, has to make you wonder, doesn't it, whether you are actually the one at fault since this happens to you a lot).
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:53 pm

Symmetry wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:So you were BSing, and your position was false?


What? Did you read the star tribune article?


Aye, i did. It didn't say anything you wanted it to say. Perhaps you could restate your arguments.


How many days straight have you been up? Here's our conversation in a nutshell to give you a recap because you seem a little lost at the moment.

I was talking to JB and stated that WalMart is starting people at $17/hour in ND.
You went and said the minimum wage in ND is $7.25
I said you were correct but what the heck does that have to do with WalMart starting people @ $17/hour and provided an article for your reference.
Then you asked what positions in WalMart those were.
I stated I assumed they were entry level positions because the source is a left leaning site and would have pointed out if they were anything but entry level.
You then stated that I was BSing and my position was false
I asked if you read the article
You said you did but it didn't say anything I wanted it to say.
I even quoted the section where it mentioned WalMart was hiring people @ $17 starting.
So what in the heck are you talking about?

Do you agree or disagree that WalMart in ND is starting people at $17/hour? No need for a fancy post, just an 'agree' or 'disagree' at this point. Once we figure out if you understand where we are in our conversation, then we can engage in further discussion.
taking a break from cc, will be back sometime in the future.
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