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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Symmetry on Fri May 17, 2013 7:30 am

thegreekdog wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:A few questions about this proposed law:

What employees does it apply to? All employees of all companies? Just union employees? Just government employees? Just hourly employees?

I must admit, I've read Juan's posts here and I'm very confused about the purpose of this law.


I'm confused now. I didn't think this was law.


I despise you... fixed in original (note that I did say "proposed law" in the first sentence).


Thanks for the fix, and give thanks I never became a lawyer too.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby thegreekdog on Fri May 17, 2013 7:33 am

Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:A few questions about this proposed law:

What employees does it apply to? All employees of all companies? Just union employees? Just government employees? Just hourly employees?

I must admit, I've read Juan's posts here and I'm very confused about the purpose of this law.


I'm confused now. I didn't think this was law.


I despise you... fixed in original (note that I did say "proposed law" in the first sentence).


Thanks for the fix, and give thanks I never became a lawyer too.


Those that can't do, teach. Honestly, from the little I know of you, you would have been a good lawyer (or barrister, as they say in the merry olde).
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby ooge on Fri May 17, 2013 6:33 pm

A party that just voted again for the 30th time to repeal the affordable care act,not a party that could be voting to stimulate job growth.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Fri May 17, 2013 7:46 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:I looked up the bill for you and check this out:


‘(1) GENERAL RULE- An employee may receive, in accordance with this subsection and in lieu of monetary overtime compensation, compensatory time off at a rate not less than one and one-half hours for each hour of employment for which overtime compensation is required by this section.
‘(ii) entered into knowingly and voluntarily by such employees and not as a condition of employment.
No employee may receive or agree to receive compensatory time off under this subsection unless the employee has worked at least 1,000 hours for the employee’s employer during a period of continuous employment with the employer in the 12-month period before the date of agreement or receipt of compensatory time off.
‘(A) MAXIMUM HOURS- An employee may accrue not more than 160 hours of compensatory time.
‘(4) PRIVATE EMPLOYER ACTIONS- An employer that provides compensatory time under paragraph (1) to employees shall not directly or indirectly intimidate, threaten, or coerce or attempt to intimidate, threaten, or coerce any employee for the purpose of--
‘(A) interfering with such employee’s rights under this subsection to request or not request compensatory time off in lieu of payment of monetary overtime compensation for overtime hours; or
‘(B) requiring any employee to use such compensatory time.



Thoughts now that I've helped give you information directly from the bill rather than your http://www.democratsrule-republicanssuck.com website?


Yeah,...
This sounds like something my boss would say, as if I'm stupid enough to trust him. You're being very passively naive.
None of this is enforced, at all. There's no agency to report abuse to. All an employee can do is get a lawyer and sue. With 50% of the country having negative assets, who can afford that? This "protection" all sounds great, if you don't think about it...

And what's up with the political divide? Everyone hates this bill. Everyone. If it was so great, America's workers would embrace it. In the least the unions would, if only to strengthen their bargaining power. But nobody supports this crap.

patrickaa317 wrote:Your example of a boss hiring someone to work 60 hours a week and forcing them to take comp time (in which they just have deferred OT payments at very very worst case scenario) is pretty weak. Why wouldn't a boss hire two people for 30 hours and pay 0 hours overtime?

Why would you ever hire two people when you only need to hire one?
That's less benefits to pay out. The incentive would be to hire less workers, and still get more work done when you need it. It's much cheaper in the long run.
If you have a busy period you force your workers to work overtime instead of hiring extra help. Then when things slow down, you force them to use their comp time. It's much cheaper for a large business to operate that way. There goes your 8-8-8.

patrickaa317 wrote:
How is the treatment different today if your son ends up in the hospital? Does your boss currently have to give you that time off and no longer does if this passes?

No he doesn't. But at least you'd already have your money in your hand to help meet any financial crisis. You would not have to wait 30 goddamn days for your money... Or give the company a fat loan on the hope that you'd have this time off when you needed it, only to be dismissed. How frustrating would that be to the worker working overtime?
This gets especially hart-wrenching when you think about single parent. They could be working crazy overtime hours, without the extra income. So how are they supposed to pay for the extra cost of having someone take care of their child? People need their overtime pay.

patrickaa317 wrote:Assuming $10/hour, 20 hours overtime. That is $300 overtime. At 3% interest (which is higher than most places would give you at the moment), it would be $9 per year, if you prorate that into a thirty day window, it's less than a dollar of interest you are missing out on. That's one of the biggest complaints around this bill?

Who cares?
These institutions are allowed to negotiate for loan rates, and they have a lot of capital on hand to loan out. Our American workers have 0 ability to negotiate any loan rate, and they don't have the money to loan out. 50% of Americans are low income or below the poverty line. If I'm going to loan out a 5th of my income, I'm gonna need to see 100,000% interest, because I need that money to get by.

patrickaa317 wrote:I see this as you are given 12 hours comp time for the 8 hours OT you worked. Can you show me in the bill where it's a one hour comp for one hour OT worked? I have a different understanding based on video you linked to, again 1:04 in the video

And I can't tell if you're doing research or just arguing the video.
I got that from President Leo W. Gerard. I haven't read the bill. And as the AFL-CIO explained, you work all this overtime, and get time off later, yeah it's paid time off, but it's money you already earned,.. so you were going to get it anyway. You're just losing out on the extra pay.


Juan_Bottom wrote:I haven't read the bill.


Priceless. I suppose you have to agree to pass the bill before you can know what's in the bill?

Glad you are taking the word of a labor union vice president and then say this:

Juan_Bottom wrote:And what's up with the political divide?


Besides political parties, unions are the most politically divisive units in the country. If I'm wrong, please name 3 unions that have supported conservative candidates in the last 25 years.

Juan_Bottom wrote:Everyone hates this bill.


This makes no difference to the people in Washington. You should know that by now.
taking a break from cc, will be back sometime in the future.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri May 17, 2013 8:07 pm

ooge wrote:A party that just voted again for the 30th time to repeal the affordable care act,not a party that could be voting to stimulate job growth.


Growth isn't something you vote on. If so, then any democratic government could create sustainable growth and resolve its systemic problems with a simple majority vote held by their elected representatives.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patches70 on Fri May 17, 2013 8:24 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
ooge wrote:A party that just voted again for the 30th time to repeal the affordable care act,not a party that could be voting to stimulate job growth.


Growth isn't something you vote on. If so, then any democratic government could create sustainable growth and resolve its systemic problems with a simple majority vote held by their elected representatives.



Bull! All we gotta do is make a law saying the economy must grow by X amount. Put the threat of jail behind it and watch the numbers magically work out! Reality would be a different matter, but since when does reality matter to politicians and their sheep?

Perception, my boy, that's the reality! Until reality shatters those perceptions but who cares? We have cops, courts and IRS' to take care of it in such times.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Phatscotty on Fri May 17, 2013 9:43 pm

ooge wrote:A party that just voted again for the 30th time to repeal the affordable care act,not a party that could be voting to stimulate job growth.


That's right, and when Obamacare is seen for the violent nudge into socialism that it is, we will remind America of this, to the 30th power. It's a lot like the bullshit story they sold us when creating the IRS, with the promise that income taxes would never go over 5%, and only the top 1% of earners would have to pay it. Now it turns out even the pre-existing condition bit was a lie.

The Tea Party will suffice.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 18, 2013 12:18 am

Phatscotty wrote:The Tea Party will suffice.


So far, the Tea Party seems to be little more than an embarrassment.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat May 18, 2013 12:24 am

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:That's right, and when Obamacare is seen for the violent nudge into socialism that it is, we will remind America of this, to the 30th power. It's a lot like the bullshit story they sold us when creating the IRS, with the promise that income taxes would never go over 5%, and only the top 1% of earners would have to pay it. Now it turns out even the pre-existing condition bit was a lie.

The Tea Party will suffice.


So far, the Tea Party seems to be little more than an embarrassment.


that's your narrow uninformed sheeple opinion. The truth is the Tea Party is growing, winning more seats every election. Whatever you want to call it, I am more than happy to continue doing the same thing. But like I keep trying to remind you, and like you keep ignoring, we are done talking. We are taking over now.

You should accept reality soon Woodruff, because when the time comes that you can't ignore reality anymore, you are going to snap.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 18, 2013 12:29 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:That's right, and when Obamacare is seen for the violent nudge into socialism that it is, we will remind America of this, to the 30th power. It's a lot like the bullshit story they sold us when creating the IRS, with the promise that income taxes would never go over 5%, and only the top 1% of earners would have to pay it. Now it turns out even the pre-existing condition bit was a lie.

The Tea Party will suffice.


So far, the Tea Party seems to be little more than an embarrassment.


that's your narrow uninformed sheeple opinion. The truth is the Tea Party is growing, winning more seats every election. Whatever you want to call it, I am more than happy to continue doing the same thing. But like I keep trying to remind you, and like you keep ignoring, we are done talking. We are taking over now.

You should accept reality soon Woodruff, because when the time comes that you can't ignore reality anymore, you are going to snap.


I'm not at all likely to snap. I do, however, wish the "Tea Party" would stop concerning themselves with homosexuals and abortion. Then perhaps they wouldn't be so embarrassing.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat May 18, 2013 12:35 am

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:That's right, and when Obamacare is seen for the violent nudge into socialism that it is, we will remind America of this, to the 30th power. It's a lot like the bullshit story they sold us when creating the IRS, with the promise that income taxes would never go over 5%, and only the top 1% of earners would have to pay it. Now it turns out even the pre-existing condition bit was a lie.

The Tea Party will suffice.


So far, the Tea Party seems to be little more than an embarrassment.


that's your narrow uninformed sheeple opinion. The truth is the Tea Party is growing, winning more seats every election. Whatever you want to call it, I am more than happy to continue doing the same thing. But like I keep trying to remind you, and like you keep ignoring, we are done talking. We are taking over now.

You should accept reality soon Woodruff, because when the time comes that you can't ignore reality anymore, you are going to snap.


I'm not at all likely to snap. I do, however, wish the "Tea Party" would stop concerning themselves with homosexuals and abortion. Then perhaps they wouldn't be so embarrassing.




The Tea Party is only concerned with fiscal issues and Constitutional adherence. Homosesuality and abortion have nothing to do with the Tea Party.

I will laugh forever at the amount of time you spend talking about things you don't know a damn thing about.

Now that's embarrassing! Keep up the excellent work.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 18, 2013 12:37 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:That's right, and when Obamacare is seen for the violent nudge into socialism that it is, we will remind America of this, to the 30th power. It's a lot like the bullshit story they sold us when creating the IRS, with the promise that income taxes would never go over 5%, and only the top 1% of earners would have to pay it. Now it turns out even the pre-existing condition bit was a lie.

The Tea Party will suffice.


So far, the Tea Party seems to be little more than an embarrassment.


that's your narrow uninformed sheeple opinion. The truth is the Tea Party is growing, winning more seats every election. Whatever you want to call it, I am more than happy to continue doing the same thing. But like I keep trying to remind you, and like you keep ignoring, we are done talking. We are taking over now.

You should accept reality soon Woodruff, because when the time comes that you can't ignore reality anymore, you are going to snap.


I'm not at all likely to snap. I do, however, wish the "Tea Party" would stop concerning themselves with homosexuals and abortion. Then perhaps they wouldn't be so embarrassing.


The Tea Party is only concerned with fiscal issues and Constitutional adherence. Homosesuality and abortion have nothing to do with the Tea Party.


I wish the Tea Party would realize that homosexuality and abortion have nothing to do with the Tea Party. But they don't seem to recognize that.

Phatscotty wrote:I will laugh forever at the amount of time you spend talking about things you don't know a damn thing about.


It's really frightening that someone who appears to be as politically motivated as yourself can remain so intentionally ignorant. It must be an awful battle to avoid those pieces of information that don't fit the way you want things to be.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sat May 18, 2013 12:41 am

patrickaa317 wrote:Priceless. I suppose you have to agree to pass the bill before you can know what's in the bill?


Priceless. I didn't realize that you had read the bill. I didn't realize that you expect every forum member to read all 10,000 pages of every law that they discuss. Or are you just playing the douchebag hypocrite-bro? The last bill I read was Obamacare, and I'm done doing that.

patrickaa317 wrote:Besides political parties, unions are the most politically divisive units in the country. If I'm wrong, please name 3 unions that have supported conservative candidates in the last 25 years.

Please name 3 Conservative Candidates that have supported Unions in the last 25 years.

patrickaa317 wrote:This makes no difference to the people in Washington. You should know that by now.

Obviously it does matter. Dismissing politics is how bad bills get passed. It's not because our politicians don't care, it's because you dismiss politics.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sat May 18, 2013 12:52 am

thegreekdog wrote:A few questions about this proposed law:

What employees does it apply to? All employees of all companies? Just union employees? Just government employees? Just hourly employees?

I must admit, I've read Juan's posts here and I'm very confused about the purpose of this proposed law.


The bill is for all hourly employees across the country who have 1000 hours in their respective company. Salaried employees don't count, because they don't get paid overtime. A few Unions already have a similar program negotiated for themselves.

The jist is that if the employee agrees, then all of their overtime pay gets rolled into "Comp Time." It's like extra paid vacation hours, but you're being payed the money that you already earned in overtime. At the end of the company's business year, they're supposed to pay you back your money for any unused comp hours. You can also ask for your Comp Pay in cash at any time, but the company gets 30 days to pay you. There's also no guarantee that the business has to give you the time off that you request, and there will be no enforcement agency.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby ooge on Sat May 18, 2013 4:51 am

ooge wrote:A party that just voted again for the 30th time to repeal the affordable care act,not a party that could be voting to stimulate job growth.


look at a graph on job growth over the past 5 years,you will see pretty clearly the point at which the country started adding jobs again instead of losing them month after month,it was after the stimulus was passed by congress,The George Bush and congressional republican supported bank Bailout did not stop the job loses.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby ooge on Sat May 18, 2013 4:55 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:That's right, and when Obamacare is seen for the violent nudge into socialism that it is, we will remind America of this, to the 30th power. It's a lot like the bullshit story they sold us when creating the IRS, with the promise that income taxes would never go over 5%, and only the top 1% of earners would have to pay it. Now it turns out even the pre-existing condition bit was a lie.

The Tea Party will suffice.


So far, the Tea Party seems to be little more than an embarrassment.


that's your narrow uninformed sheeple opinion. The truth is the Tea Party is growing, winning more seats every election. Whatever you want to call it, I am more than happy to continue doing the same thing. But like I keep trying to remind you, and like you keep ignoring, we are done talking. We are taking over now.

You should accept reality soon Woodruff, because when the time comes that you can't ignore reality anymore, you are going to snap.


I'm not at all likely to snap. I do, however, wish the "Tea Party" would stop concerning themselves with homosexuals and abortion. Then perhaps they wouldn't be so embarrassing.




The Tea Party is only concerned with fiscal issues and Constitutional adherence. Homosesuality and abortion have nothing to do with the Tea Party.

I will laugh forever at the amount of time you spend talking about things you don't know a damn thing about.

Now that's embarrassing! Keep up the excellent work.


Tea peoples motto "teabag Washington before Washington teabags you"....really you cant make this stuff up,what a bunch of knuckle dragging simpletons they are.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby ooge on Sat May 18, 2013 11:38 am

this is what the repubs are.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby john9blue on Sat May 18, 2013 11:58 am

ooge wrote:this is what the repubs are.


wat? rand hated religion and republicans love religion.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby ooge on Sat May 18, 2013 12:09 pm

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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby ooge on Sat May 18, 2013 12:21 pm

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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby ooge on Sat May 18, 2013 12:46 pm

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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sun May 19, 2013 12:21 am

john9blue wrote:
ooge wrote:this is what the repubs are.


wat? rand hated religion and republicans love religion.


Which has created a really odd mixture that has taken place within the Tea Party.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby john9blue on Sun May 19, 2013 2:10 am

Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:
ooge wrote:this is what the repubs are.


wat? rand hated religion and republicans love religion.


Which has created a really odd mixture that has taken place within the Tea Party.


the thing is that it would be so easy to confront one of these politicians and show how their political beliefs are inconsistent with the christian bible. but nobody ever does it, or if they do, it's not televised. the media sucks ass.

BTW i finally picked up a copy of atlas shrugged today. never got around to it, despite the fact that i read the fountainhead way back in high school.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sun May 19, 2013 2:18 am

john9blue wrote:the thing is that it would be so easy to confront one of these politicians and show how their political beliefs are inconsistent with the christian bible. but nobody ever does it, or if they do, it's not televised. the media sucks ass.


Regarding the US media, this is an absolute truth.

But the really sad part is that it isn't even necessary...their own stated ideals run counter to the Bible (or counter to the Tea Party ideals, whichever). All it takes is for more people to pay attention to what they say (which is just as sad of a state of affairs).
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby stahrgazer on Sun May 19, 2013 9:35 am

thegreekdog wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:1) That's not true. You can opt-out of paying all of your income taxes, then pay what's due at the end of the year instead. Over-paying your taxes is entirely a choice.


Actually you cannot pay all your taxes at the end of the year without incurring both interest and penalties.


Wrong. Only businesses including self-employed persons have to pay taxes on a quarterly basis, or incur penalties; the population can, indeed, wait until "tax time" (April 15 of the year following December 31 of the year the income was made) to pay 100% of any taxes owed.

A single person or couple can claim extra exemptions (as though they have more children than they have) through the year 2013 to have "no taxes" come out of a paycheck, then pay it all by April 15, 2014 and incur no penalties or interest.

As for the discussion of political ideals vs. biblical ideals, ANY ideals can be found to be supported by, or rejected by, the Bible, depending on which section you quote and sometimes, how different people interpret the same section.

But since our country is founded with an ideal of "separation between church and state," I'd prefer politicians to LIVE the word they believe, but not force ME to live it, too. Unfortunately, what I see from any party is folks that live however the heck they want and try to force me to live according to "their beliefs," that they themselves don't live. (Abortion, for example... anyone who's anti-choice or anti-abortion shouldn't be having sex outside of marriage, if they do, they're hypocrites.)
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