Showing ID to Vote

[PLAYER57832]

So, given my above point, I fail to see why specific Voter IDs are worth the costs.

This is a very good point, though I don't believe any area actually requires specific IDs.


In PA, you just need your driver's license. However, if you don't have a driver license, then you need either an official ID card OR a picture voter ID... and it has to be current. Many people in big cities, along with many elderly just don' thave driver's licenses or current licenses because they don't drive.

In PA, it can be difficult to get an ID. The local office only opens once a week.. and there is always a line. Plus, you do have to pay to get copies of the documents you need for an initial ID card or driver license. And getting those mostly means driving an hour.

LA already has the maens which deals well enough with voter fraud and other To me, this voter ID seems to be another means for the government to increase its spending, provide more jobs (at the cost of taking more money from people, or by printing it, or borrowing it), etc.

No, its more about helping Republicans. Its no cooincidence that its the Republican party pushing for this. Poorer people tend to vote Democratic. The states that are seeing the biggest push are states they hope to turn Republican this year, states like PA.

[PLAYER57832]

The only people against it are those who want non-citizens the ability to vote! If you are a citizen whats the big deal having to show your ID. VOTER FRAUD is why people are against it! Would Obama have won in 2008 if ID's were required?

There is no RATIONAL reason NOT to have to show ID!

I see, so do you have records on illegal aliens attempting to vote?

or have any idea how much voter fraud there is of any type, overall?

Answer.. its not very much at all!

The biggest problem with this issue is that people who come to the answer "not very much at all" are making the biggest and most unsubstantiated guesses of anyone.

I realize this is hard for you to believe, but there tends to be a LOT of interest in voting results and people who vote. Look at BBS statistics above, just as an example.

Also, the idea that illegal entrants want to put all they have at risk just to case a US vote is pretty arrogant and ridiculous.

[Phatscotty]

The only people against it are those who want non-citizens the ability to vote! If you are a citizen whats the big deal having to show your ID. VOTER FRAUD is why people are against it! Would Obama have won in 2008 if ID's were required?

There is no RATIONAL reason NOT to have to show ID!

I see, so do you have records on illegal aliens attempting to vote?

or have any idea how much voter fraud there is of any type, overall?

Answer.. its not very much at all!

The biggest problem with this issue is that people who come to the answer "not very much at all" are making the biggest and most unsubstantiated guesses of anyone.

I realize this is hard for you to believe, but there tends to be a LOT of interest in voting results and people who vote. Look at BBS statistics above, just as an example.

Also, the idea that illegal entrants want to put all they have at risk just to case a US vote is pretty arrogant and ridiculous.

That's utter nonsense, because as it is right now, they aren't putting anything at risk, because like I said, there is virtually a 100% chance to get away with illegal voting. If ID is not required, how in the hell could you possibly track down the person who voted illegally? YOU NEVER KNEW WHO THEY WERE!!!!! Illegal voting is not a huge stretch for people who are already living here illegally, especially when it's someone promising more benefits, amnesty, etc....


Once voter ID is passed, then people residing here illegally will be risking everything if they try to vote illegally . And that is exactly the way it should be. Common sense

[BigBallinStalin]

So, PS, what exactly is voter ID laws?

Because at least with LA and probably many States, in order to vote, you have to present some form of credible proof of your identity.

So, what's the purpose of this thread? What exactly is your topic?

[jimboston]

Honestly why is there even a debate about this?

You have to show ID to...

1) Buy cigarettes.
2) Buy alcohol.
3) Open a Bank Account.
4) Most other significant financial transaction... like get a Mortgage.
5) Get a Driver's License.
6) If you are pulled over by the Police.
7) Cash a check.
Write a check.
9) Cross a border to go to Canada or Mexico.
10) Get on a plane.

There is ABSOLUTELY no good argument AGAINST voted ID requirements... except some BS hypothetical idea that it "disenfranchises" a small portion of the (potentially) voting public. We live in a world that can easily overcome any reasonable objection to getting an ID.

I think that ID's SHOULD be mandatory.

I also think that adults should automatically be registered when they get a license or other ID.

[saxitoxin]

Canada requires ID to vote (http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?se ... dex&lang=e).

Which describes your belief?

(a) Canadian healthcare is good. Canadian election laws are crap.
(b) Canadian healthcare is crap. Canadian election laws are good.
(c) Canadian healthcare and election laws are both good.
(d) Canadian healthcare and election laws are both crap.

I bet we'll get a lot of "A" and "B" and not many "C" or "D."

[PLAYER57832]

That's utter nonsense, because as it is right now, they aren't putting anything at risk, because like I said, there is virtually a 100% chance to get away with illegal voting. If ID is not required, how in the hell could you possibly track down the person who voted illegally? YOU NEVER KNEW WHO THEY WERE!!!!! Illegal

Well see, I have voted in more than a few districts. They are virtually always staffed by local individuals who generally actually know the people voting. When that is not the case, you have to do things like sign.. and the signatures and addresses ARE tracked, just like they are for petitions.

[kentington]

That's utter nonsense, because as it is right now, they aren't putting anything at risk, because like I said, there is virtually a 100% chance to get away with illegal voting. If ID is not required, how in the hell could you possibly track down the person who voted illegally? YOU NEVER KNEW WHO THEY WERE!!!!! Illegal

Well see, I have voted in more than a few districts. They are virtually always staffed by local individuals who generally actually know the people voting. When that is not the case, you have to do things like sign.. and the signatures and addresses ARE tracked, just like they are for petitions.

I have voted in a few districts and the people working there were locals. They didn't seem to know anyone and I certainly didn't recognize them. At least they said they are locals.
Larger cities and areas with a denser populous (I don't mean tubby people) make it easier to commit voter fraud. I could do it easily.

[Juan_Bottom]

This thread is disappointing. Page 1 is NS and PS repeating talking points that they already lost on in the thread that I started. So they lose the discussion there and PS decides to start a new thread. How terrible and intellectually dishonest. I think that this thread should be merged with mine.

And remember Thomas Jefferson said that a democracy is just a mob rule where 51% of the population can take away the rights of 49% of the population. That's what they're proposing here. "Well if everyone votes for it then it must be good."

^ARGUMENTUM AD POPULUM PS^


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-s ... 0556_n.jpg

[kentington]

This thread is disappointing. Page 1 is NS and PS repeating talking points that they already lost on in the thread that I started. So they lose the discussion there and PS decides to start a new thread. How terrible and intellectually dishonest. I think that this thread should be merged with mine.

And remember Thomas Jefferson said that a democracy is just a mob rule where 51% of the population can take away the rights of 49% of the population. That's what they're proposing here. "Well if everyone votes for it then it must be good."

^ARGUMENTUM AD POPULUM PS^


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-s ... 0556_n.jpg

Your thread is about showing ID to vote?

[Phatscotty]

[Juan_Bottom]

Your thread is about showing ID to vote?

It's about blocking votes. Showing ID is one of the methods used to do it, and it's been the main thing we've talk about through the whole thing. This is a conversation that is and should be held in that thread.

[Army of GOD]

1. IDs should be required to vote
2. IDs should be free
3. At the voting both, if a potential voter doesn't have an ID, they should tell said voter to get a free ID

[Juan_Bottom]

IDs are required to vote.

[saxitoxin]

According to this, only senior citizens and flamboyantly gay men support voter ID.

Also, the cripple was photoshopped into this picture.

[BigBallinStalin]

I still don't get this Voter ID issue.


Can someone please explain this to me???

Is PS clamoring for something which he doesn't understand?

[kentington]

I still don't get this Voter ID issue.


Can someone please explain this to me???

Is PS clamoring for something which he doesn't understand?

I don't know what is going on. Is this for a special voter voucher or just requiring regular ID to vote.

I didn't need an ID to vote at the last election they just asked for my name and confirmed my address, which I could see on the paper in front of them.

[saxitoxin]

In North Dakota you don't even need to register to vote. You just show up and if you look familiar, then you can vote.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2004/rpt/2004-R-0032.htm

[Phatscotty]

I still don't get this Voter ID issue.


Can someone please explain this to me???

Is PS clamoring for something which he doesn't understand?

I don't get what you don't get.

I just wanted to make a poll, and add some color along the way

[Phatscotty]

I still don't get this Voter ID issue.


Can someone please explain this to me???

Is PS clamoring for something which he doesn't understand?

I don't know what is going on. Is this for a special voter voucher or just requiring regular ID to vote.

I didn't need an ID to vote at the last election they just asked for my name and confirmed my address, which I could see on the paper in front of them.

No, it's not for a special voting ID. Just regular ID

[saxitoxin]

This is a disastrous issue for Democrats to spend resources on and a slam-dunk for the GOP, non-issue though it may be. Democrats are never going to get traction with more than the 20% of the U.S. population that considers themselves strongly aligned with either of the two parties since the idea of not having any form of identification will be totally out of the frame of experience of 98% of the U.S. population, and the 2% for whom it will actually resonate are probably oblivious to the fact this issue is even being discussed. Policy debates are only successful if you can personalize the possible outcomes for the audience.

This is the same reason Dennis Kucinich was never able to get any vegetarian issues inserted into the Democrat platform, there's no widely resonant story that can be crafted around them.

In any case, Scott, present a better break-down of "Yes" options in the poll, i.e.

(a) Yes, without exception
(b) Yes, but only if a free ID is provided when you originally register to vote
(c) Yes, but there should be an option for casting a provisional ballot if you don't have an ID

[Juan_Bottom]

• 25% of African Americans don't have photo IDs
• Blacks overwhelmingly vote Democratic
• There are .7 cases of Voter Impersonation/Fraud per state per year

Battleground states like Ohio have been decided by 2% margins in the past.
Sounds like common sense to me too. PS doesn't want Democrats voting in this election.

[BigBallinStalin]

JB, how many States allow someone to present other forms of ID that don't have a photo?

How many States provide $0.00 photo ID cards for voting?

What is the average amount of Voter impersonation/Fraud for those cases?

kthx

[stahrgazer]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

If your argument is that you don't need ID because voting is a right, then the same goes for guns.....right?

Not really, owning a gun as a right is a peculiarity of the US. I don't consider it a right. A right to own something ain't the same as a right to vote, in any case.

You shouldn't have to purchase your vote.

And yet, the RIGHT to keep and bear arms is a constitutional amendment that preceded the RIGHT to vote for many citizens.

One reason folks should have to show identification in order to vote, is because violations of certain laws result in loss of that right to vote, so identification is necessary to compare the person standing there to the list of those who lost the right and did not yet get that right reinstated.

And no, the identification should not be "free" because that means everyone else is paying for that person's proof of validity.
---If someone loses a birth certificate and needs a replacement, they have to pay
---If someone needs a driver license, they have to pay
---id is useless without a photo, and photos cost more than just a piece of paper.
---Even just paper costs money, as does the salary of the person who is typing up the piece of paper

Not sure why it's such an issue, though. In many states, for example, Florida, a person must show some form of identification with a signature - although it does not necessarily have to be a photo i.d. In other states, the person must show some form of proof of residency, for example, a utility bill with their name on it.

Finally, most states already send a voter registration card to inform a person which voting precinct they should go to on election day.

On the other hand... so many states are encouraging vote by mail, that it makes absolutely no sense that someone can send in a mail ballot (no id, right?) and get it counted, but if they forgot their i.d. at home if they go to a precinct, they don't get to vote??!! How unfair is that?

Thus, while I would prefer people to have to show a photo identification, if the by-mail ballots will continue to be accepted, then no, I shouldn't have to show any form of id at all when I show up in person at a precinct; and since I did (have to show id) I plan to write my county registrar a protest letter.

[saxitoxin]

[*]25% of African Americans don't have photo IDs.

1 - The Brennan Center's figures - which you're probably citing - have been strongly contradicted by more recent data.

2 - Even if the Brennan Center study was accepted, in 2008 35% of African Americans didn't vote. It's probably reasonable to assume that includes almost - if not all - of the population who live without ID. In other words, those who live without ID are in an extreme state of non-integration with society at large - likely due to some combination of endemic poverty, linguistic isolation and geographic disparity (e.g. the Gullah) - and it's an idyllic, white-bread fantasy to think abstract concepts like politics are even in their frame of awareness.