Pre 9-11 Thinking

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.
Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:33 am

Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?

People Jumping from World Trade Center

NEVER forget
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 2108
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm
Medals: 90
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (5)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Training Achievement (6) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (12)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby Woodruff on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:12 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?

People Jumping from World Trade Center

NEVER forget


What we've "forgotten" is how to be a free nation.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4942
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:50 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?

People Jumping from World Trade Center

NEVER forget


What we've "forgotten" is how to be a free nation.


I'll agree to that.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 3846
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby jay_a2j on Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:10 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?

People Jumping from World Trade Center

NEVER forget


What we've "forgotten" is how to be a free nation.


I'll agree to that.



Unbelievably, me too.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
User avatar
Lieutenant jay_a2j
 
Posts: 4245
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:22 am
Location: In the center of the R3VOJUTION!
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (1)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby tkr4lf on Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:13 pm

I think we can all agree to that.
User avatar
Major tkr4lf
 
Posts: 1387
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:35 am
Location: Austin, TX
Medals: 64
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (4)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (12) Tournament Contribution (14)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby jay_a2j on Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:13 pm

tkr4lf wrote:I think we can all agree to that.



Then why is Ron Paul not the GOP candidate? He was the only guy talking about this stuff.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
User avatar
Lieutenant jay_a2j
 
Posts: 4245
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:22 am
Location: In the center of the R3VOJUTION!
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (1)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby Frigidus on Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:37 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:I think we can all agree to that.



Then why is Ron Paul not the GOP candidate? He was the only guy talking about this stuff.


Because a lot of the people that claim to be libertarians actually just mean "I want low tax rates". They see Paul's stances on the military, the war on drugs, his desire to end the federal reserve and social security, and all of a sudden they don't like libertarianism quite as much.
User avatar
Sergeant Frigidus
 
Posts: 1635
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:15 pm
Location: Illinois, USA
Medals: 7
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (1)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby tzor on Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:48 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?


That's hard to say. Let's understand first that the attacks on September 11th were a long planned coordinated attack. It was the design of the twin towers that made 9/11 the dark day of infamy. (Consider that the attack on the Pentagon while tragic was no where near the epic porportions as was the thousands who died when the towers collapsed and had the attack on the White House been successful, it would have been mostly symbolic; the original White House was burned down in the war of 1812). So the question is how we define "sleep."

If we define sleep as not paying attention to the voices of hate and the reasons for their hate towards us and our way of life in general; we are more asleep now than we were in 2001.

If we define our general attitude towards homeland secutiry, we are more awake and aware than we were in 2001. We are still not properly aware and smart about it, but there is still an improvement.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant tzor
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby fadedpsychosis on Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:55 pm

tzor wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?


That's hard to say. Let's understand first that the attacks on September 11th were a long planned coordinated attack. It was the design of the twin towers that made 9/11 the dark day of infamy. (Consider that the attack on the Pentagon while tragic was no where near the epic porportions as was the thousands who died when the towers collapsed and had the attack on the White House been successful, it would have been mostly symbolic; the original White House was burned down in the war of 1812). So the question is how we define "sleep."

If we define sleep as not paying attention to the voices of hate and the reasons for their hate towards us and our way of life in general; we are more asleep now than we were in 2001.

If we define our general attitude towards homeland secutiry, we are more awake and aware than we were in 2001. We are still not properly aware and smart about it, but there is still an improvement.

yeah... pretty much sums it up for me too
John Adams wrote:I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three or more become a Congress! And by God I have had this Congress!
User avatar
Private fadedpsychosis
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:12 pm
Location: global

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby Woodruff on Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:27 pm

Comment stolen from a story regarding the recent attacks that seems appropriate:

A mere century ago, I don't think there was a single Muslim nation that was fully independent of European domination, save maybe the Ottoman Empire, which was collapsing under pressure from the West. There has been no "kiss and make up" period since the colonial era, so it should surprise no one that resentments continue to fester in cultures with long memories. This is hard for Americans to understand, because our worst enemies of the past are our strongest allies today (Britain, Germany, Japan).

Most of these nations, particulary the most radicalized ones, have been under the domination of western-backed dictatorships (or monarchies, which are really the same thing)for most of the lives of their current citizens. Most of these dicators maintained power by focusing the misery of their people on external causes (Israel, America), instead of internal problems.

Solution? A long, hard road of education, economic development, political freedom (even when things don't turn out as we like), to enable the populations of Muslim nations to prosper according to THEIR values, and not by imposing OURS. I don't think there have been many suicide bombers who had the vote, a home and family, and a future worth living for. Radical leaders can easily recruit volunteers from a population with nothing to lose (true even in America among society's losers).
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4942
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby fadedpsychosis on Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:15 pm

Woodruff wrote:Comment stolen from a story regarding the recent attacks that seems appropriate:

A mere century ago, I don't think there was a single Muslim nation that was fully independent of European domination, save maybe the Ottoman Empire, which was collapsing under pressure from the West. There has been no "kiss and make up" period since the colonial era, so it should surprise no one that resentments continue to fester in cultures with long memories. This is hard for Americans to understand, because our worst enemies of the past are our strongest allies today (Britain, Germany, Japan).

Most of these nations, particulary the most radicalized ones, have been under the domination of western-backed dictatorships (or monarchies, which are really the same thing)for most of the lives of their current citizens. Most of these dicators maintained power by focusing the misery of their people on external causes (Israel, America), instead of internal problems.

Solution? A long, hard road of education, economic development, political freedom (even when things don't turn out as we like), to enable the populations of Muslim nations to prosper according to THEIR values, and not by imposing OURS. I don't think there have been many suicide bombers who had the vote, a home and family, and a future worth living for. Radical leaders can easily recruit volunteers from a population with nothing to lose (true even in America among society's losers).


damn... need to send this article to our policy makers and make them READ it.
John Adams wrote:I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three or more become a Congress! And by God I have had this Congress!
User avatar
Private fadedpsychosis
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:12 pm
Location: global

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby john9blue on Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:29 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?

People Jumping from World Trade Center

NEVER forget


you better hope dave doesn't see this LOL

i posted "falling man" and he got fucking PISSED. enough to made him my mortal enemy.

he has a very strong emotional response to 9/11, probably due to personal loss
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)
User avatar
Captain john9blue
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 pm
Location: FlutterChi-town
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:03 pm

john9blue wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?

People Jumping from World Trade Center

NEVER forget


you better hope dave doesn't see this LOL

i posted "falling man" and he got fucking PISSED. enough to made him my mortal enemy.

he has a very strong emotional response to 9/11, probably due to personal loss


Well then, I'm sure he does not wish for people to forget about 9-11 as well.
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 2108
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm
Medals: 90
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (5)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Training Achievement (6) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (12)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby john9blue on Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:45 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
john9blue wrote:
you better hope dave doesn't see this LOL

i posted "falling man" and he got fucking PISSED. enough to made him my mortal enemy.

he has a very strong emotional response to 9/11, probably due to personal loss


Well then, I'm sure he does not wish for people to forget about 9-11 as well.


my post said basically the same thing. you are falsely assuming that he is a person who thinks rationally.
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)
User avatar
Captain john9blue
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 pm
Location: FlutterChi-town
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby tzor on Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:27 pm

Woodruff wrote:Most of these nations, particulary the most radicalized ones, have been under the domination of western-backed dictatorships (or monarchies, which are really the same thing)for most of the lives of their current citizens. Most of these dicators maintained power by focusing the misery of their people on external causes (Israel, America), instead of internal problems.


Yes, but this is also true of a lot of the history of western and eastern Europe and a lot of the Americas. To a certain extent you can see the same problems reflected in those areas as well.

It doesn't help that the western world pushes this notion of "democracy" which is realy putting the cart before the horse. As the Declaration of Independence states government is designed to ensure "rights" to the pepople and derive their power from the people's "consent." One can argue from there that the democratic republic is the best manner to express those rights and the consent of the people, but without the notion that government exists to secure the rights to all the people, democracy merely becomes another form of mob rule; in this case the "mob" being the majority of the moment.

In most of the Muslim world, the ideal government is a theocracy. It doesn't exist to defend inalienable rights but to impose God's law (or what they consider God's law). Thus it is, while not incompatible, extreemely difficult to integrate into their culture. Such things cannot be imposed from the outside; they have to own it and desire it for themselves. Until that happens, the probability of democratically elected despots is as high there today as it was in France during the revolution against the government of France in the very late 18th century.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant tzor
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby Woodruff on Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:35 pm

tzor wrote:It doesn't help that the western world pushes this notion of "democracy" which is realy putting the cart before the horse. As the Declaration of Independence states government is designed to ensure "rights" to the pepople and derive their power from the people's "consent." One can argue from there that the democratic republic is the best manner to express those rights and the consent of the people, but without the notion that government exists to secure the rights to all the people, democracy merely becomes another form of mob rule; in this case the "mob" being the majority of the moment.


Very good point.

tzor wrote:In most of the Muslim world, the ideal government is a theocracy.


I wouldn't QUITE agree with that. I think it's true of those who haven't experienced anything else (those who have lived under that law the majority of their lives). It's "what they know". It's comfortable. It fits them into their box, and they don't have to think too much that way. But I definitely would not say that it is ideal to those Muslims who have had the opportunity to live most of their lives in a westernized culture.

tzor wrote:Such things cannot be imposed from the outside; they have to own it and desire it for themselves.


This is absolutely true.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4942
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:03 pm

If we still had the color coded terror alert, would it be red right now?
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 2108
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm
Medals: 90
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (5)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Training Achievement (6) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (12)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby Frigidus on Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:22 pm

Phatscotty wrote:If we still had the color coded terror alert, would it be red right now?


I don't think we have too much to worry about on this side of the world.
User avatar
Sergeant Frigidus
 
Posts: 1635
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:15 pm
Location: Illinois, USA
Medals: 7
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (1)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:35 pm

Frigidus wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:If we still had the color coded terror alert, would it be red right now?


I don't think we have too much to worry about on this side of the world.


Mind elaborating?
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 2108
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm
Medals: 90
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (5)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Training Achievement (6) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (12)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:34 am

Frigidus wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:I think we can all agree to that.



Then why is Ron Paul not the GOP candidate? He was the only guy talking about this stuff.


Because a lot of the people that claim to be libertarians actually just mean "I want low tax rates". They see Paul's stances on the military, the war on drugs, his desire to end the federal reserve and social security, and all of a sudden they don't like libertarianism quite as much.

=D> =D> =D> =D>

and they "don't like it" because they realize that many of those things, contrary to the Phatt-view really contribute to real freedom for most Americans.

Its pretty hard to worry about freedom when your kids are not getting educated, you have trouble putting food on the table and you know that your kids are going to wind up paying for all these wonderful tax breaks out of THEIR pockets, never mind that they did not reap the benefits....

and, oh yeah... but hey, the fact that the 1% is the ONLY group that has done well, that the middle class has SLID amongst all these wonderful tax breaks is just irrelevant. The right wing "factoids" claim that the middle class will do better with more tax breaks and we should all just go ahead and believe it.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:30 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:I think we can all agree to that.



Then why is Ron Paul not the GOP candidate? He was the only guy talking about this stuff.


Because a lot of the people that claim to be libertarians actually just mean "I want low tax rates". They see Paul's stances on the military, the war on drugs, his desire to end the federal reserve and social security, and all of a sudden they don't like libertarianism quite as much.

=D> =D> =D> =D>

and they "don't like it" because they realize that many of those things, contrary to the Phatt-view really contribute to real freedom for most Americans.

Its pretty hard to worry about freedom when your kids are not getting educated, you have trouble putting food on the table and you know that your kids are going to wind up paying for all these wonderful tax breaks out of THEIR pockets, never mind that they did not reap the benefits....

and, oh yeah... but hey, the fact that the 1% is the ONLY group that has done well, that the middle class has SLID amongst all these wonderful tax breaks is just irrelevant. The right wing "factoids" claim that the middle class will do better with more tax breaks and we should all just go ahead and believe it.


I don't think you read Frigidus's post correctly. He was referring to conservative Republican primary voters (the ones who voted for Mitt Romney) and how those people don't want a reduced military or an end to the war on drugs and the federal reserve. He's not referring to your average Democrat. I'm not sure you truly (to borrow your word) understand libertarianism. It's not just about tax cuts.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6217
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:19 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:I think we can all agree to that.



Then why is Ron Paul not the GOP candidate? He was the only guy talking about this stuff.


Because a lot of the people that claim to be libertarians actually just mean "I want low tax rates". They see Paul's stances on the military, the war on drugs, his desire to end the federal reserve and social security, and all of a sudden they don't like libertarianism quite as much.

=D> =D> =D> =D>

and they "don't like it" because they realize that many of those things, contrary to the Phatt-view really contribute to real freedom for most Americans.

Its pretty hard to worry about freedom when your kids are not getting educated, you have trouble putting food on the table and you know that your kids are going to wind up paying for all these wonderful tax breaks out of THEIR pockets, never mind that they did not reap the benefits....

and, oh yeah... but hey, the fact that the 1% is the ONLY group that has done well, that the middle class has SLID amongst all these wonderful tax breaks is just irrelevant. The right wing "factoids" claim that the middle class will do better with more tax breaks and we should all just go ahead and believe it.


I don't think you read Frigidus's post correctly. He was referring to conservative Republican primary voters (the ones who voted for Mitt Romney) and how those people don't want a reduced military or an end to the war on drugs and the federal reserve. He's not referring to your average Democrat. I'm not sure you truly (to borrow your word) understand libertarianism. It's not just about tax cuts.

I believe I read it quite well... People don't want to pay taxes, but they want the things those taxes provide.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:11 pm

Tell me Player....what is the Phatt-view?
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 2108
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm
Medals: 90
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (5)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Training Achievement (6) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (12)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby tzor on Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:28 pm

Phatscotty wrote:If we still had the color coded terror alert, would it be red right now?


Due to major changes in the composition of the government at the Federal Level, we are officially on CODE PINK at the moment. :twisted:
Image
User avatar
Sergeant tzor
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Pre 9-11 Thinking

Postby tzor on Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:37 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:I believe I read it quite well... People don't want to pay taxes, but they want the things those taxes provide.


I don't mind paying taxes. I object to excess Federal Government Spending.

Ironically, back in the late 80's I lived on long Island and worked in Manhattan. The city would charge me a non resident income tax. I mean it was pathetic, even in the late 80's. It was like a couple of bucks out of my paycheck. How dare they do that! I mean if you were going to tax me make it something meaningful.

The Federal Government is excellent at wasting money (there is a reason for this but such logical explantions would be wasted among the progressives here). Yet it doesn't mean that all money spent is useless; some money is actually used for a purpose. If only you could eliminate the waste and keep the effective spending you would ... but you can't so why bother.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant tzor
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Next

Return to Babble-On Five

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: shickingbrits

Login