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Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?
People Jumping from World Trade Center
NEVER forget
Woodruff wrote:Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?
People Jumping from World Trade Center
NEVER forget
What we've "forgotten" is how to be a free nation.
BigBallinStalin wrote:Woodruff wrote:Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?
People Jumping from World Trade Center
NEVER forget
What we've "forgotten" is how to be a free nation.
I'll agree to that.
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
tkr4lf wrote:I think we can all agree to that.
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
jay_a2j wrote:tkr4lf wrote:I think we can all agree to that.
Then why is Ron Paul not the GOP candidate? He was the only guy talking about this stuff.
Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?
tzor wrote:Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?
That's hard to say. Let's understand first that the attacks on September 11th were a long planned coordinated attack. It was the design of the twin towers that made 9/11 the dark day of infamy. (Consider that the attack on the Pentagon while tragic was no where near the epic porportions as was the thousands who died when the towers collapsed and had the attack on the White House been successful, it would have been mostly symbolic; the original White House was burned down in the war of 1812). So the question is how we define "sleep."
If we define sleep as not paying attention to the voices of hate and the reasons for their hate towards us and our way of life in general; we are more asleep now than we were in 2001.
If we define our general attitude towards homeland secutiry, we are more awake and aware than we were in 2001. We are still not properly aware and smart about it, but there is still an improvement.
John Adams wrote:I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three or more become a Congress! And by God I have had this Congress!
Woodruff wrote:Comment stolen from a story regarding the recent attacks that seems appropriate:
A mere century ago, I don't think there was a single Muslim nation that was fully independent of European domination, save maybe the Ottoman Empire, which was collapsing under pressure from the West. There has been no "kiss and make up" period since the colonial era, so it should surprise no one that resentments continue to fester in cultures with long memories. This is hard for Americans to understand, because our worst enemies of the past are our strongest allies today (Britain, Germany, Japan).
Most of these nations, particulary the most radicalized ones, have been under the domination of western-backed dictatorships (or monarchies, which are really the same thing)for most of the lives of their current citizens. Most of these dicators maintained power by focusing the misery of their people on external causes (Israel, America), instead of internal problems.
Solution? A long, hard road of education, economic development, political freedom (even when things don't turn out as we like), to enable the populations of Muslim nations to prosper according to THEIR values, and not by imposing OURS. I don't think there have been many suicide bombers who had the vote, a home and family, and a future worth living for. Radical leaders can easily recruit volunteers from a population with nothing to lose (true even in America among society's losers).
John Adams wrote:I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three or more become a Congress! And by God I have had this Congress!
Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?
People Jumping from World Trade Center
NEVER forget
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
john9blue wrote:Phatscotty wrote:Are we in a deeper sleep now than we were on September 10th, 2001?
People Jumping from World Trade Center
NEVER forget
you better hope dave doesn't see this LOL
i posted "falling man" and he got fucking PISSED. enough to made him my mortal enemy.
he has a very strong emotional response to 9/11, probably due to personal loss
Phatscotty wrote:john9blue wrote:
you better hope dave doesn't see this LOL
i posted "falling man" and he got fucking PISSED. enough to made him my mortal enemy.
he has a very strong emotional response to 9/11, probably due to personal loss
Well then, I'm sure he does not wish for people to forget about 9-11 as well.
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
Woodruff wrote:Most of these nations, particulary the most radicalized ones, have been under the domination of western-backed dictatorships (or monarchies, which are really the same thing)for most of the lives of their current citizens. Most of these dicators maintained power by focusing the misery of their people on external causes (Israel, America), instead of internal problems.
tzor wrote:It doesn't help that the western world pushes this notion of "democracy" which is realy putting the cart before the horse. As the Declaration of Independence states government is designed to ensure "rights" to the pepople and derive their power from the people's "consent." One can argue from there that the democratic republic is the best manner to express those rights and the consent of the people, but without the notion that government exists to secure the rights to all the people, democracy merely becomes another form of mob rule; in this case the "mob" being the majority of the moment.
tzor wrote:In most of the Muslim world, the ideal government is a theocracy.
tzor wrote:Such things cannot be imposed from the outside; they have to own it and desire it for themselves.
Phatscotty wrote:If we still had the color coded terror alert, would it be red right now?
Frigidus wrote:Phatscotty wrote:If we still had the color coded terror alert, would it be red right now?
I don't think we have too much to worry about on this side of the world.
Frigidus wrote:jay_a2j wrote:tkr4lf wrote:I think we can all agree to that.
Then why is Ron Paul not the GOP candidate? He was the only guy talking about this stuff.
Because a lot of the people that claim to be libertarians actually just mean "I want low tax rates". They see Paul's stances on the military, the war on drugs, his desire to end the federal reserve and social security, and all of a sudden they don't like libertarianism quite as much.
PLAYER57832 wrote:Frigidus wrote:jay_a2j wrote:tkr4lf wrote:I think we can all agree to that.
Then why is Ron Paul not the GOP candidate? He was the only guy talking about this stuff.
Because a lot of the people that claim to be libertarians actually just mean "I want low tax rates". They see Paul's stances on the military, the war on drugs, his desire to end the federal reserve and social security, and all of a sudden they don't like libertarianism quite as much.
and they "don't like it" because they realize that many of those things, contrary to the Phatt-view really contribute to real freedom for most Americans.
Its pretty hard to worry about freedom when your kids are not getting educated, you have trouble putting food on the table and you know that your kids are going to wind up paying for all these wonderful tax breaks out of THEIR pockets, never mind that they did not reap the benefits....
and, oh yeah... but hey, the fact that the 1% is the ONLY group that has done well, that the middle class has SLID amongst all these wonderful tax breaks is just irrelevant. The right wing "factoids" claim that the middle class will do better with more tax breaks and we should all just go ahead and believe it.
thegreekdog wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:Frigidus wrote:jay_a2j wrote:tkr4lf wrote:I think we can all agree to that.
Then why is Ron Paul not the GOP candidate? He was the only guy talking about this stuff.
Because a lot of the people that claim to be libertarians actually just mean "I want low tax rates". They see Paul's stances on the military, the war on drugs, his desire to end the federal reserve and social security, and all of a sudden they don't like libertarianism quite as much.
and they "don't like it" because they realize that many of those things, contrary to the Phatt-view really contribute to real freedom for most Americans.
Its pretty hard to worry about freedom when your kids are not getting educated, you have trouble putting food on the table and you know that your kids are going to wind up paying for all these wonderful tax breaks out of THEIR pockets, never mind that they did not reap the benefits....
and, oh yeah... but hey, the fact that the 1% is the ONLY group that has done well, that the middle class has SLID amongst all these wonderful tax breaks is just irrelevant. The right wing "factoids" claim that the middle class will do better with more tax breaks and we should all just go ahead and believe it.
I don't think you read Frigidus's post correctly. He was referring to conservative Republican primary voters (the ones who voted for Mitt Romney) and how those people don't want a reduced military or an end to the war on drugs and the federal reserve. He's not referring to your average Democrat. I'm not sure you truly (to borrow your word) understand libertarianism. It's not just about tax cuts.
Phatscotty wrote:If we still had the color coded terror alert, would it be red right now?
PLAYER57832 wrote:I believe I read it quite well... People don't want to pay taxes, but they want the things those taxes provide.
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