The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:17 pm

Frigidus wrote:
warmonger1981 wrote:Its hard for 90% of the country who was raised in a progressive/liberal school and society to break free from the matrix. Shit a heroin addict know nothing more than the drug like a kid doesnt know a pound of candy isn't good for you. Welcome to the progressive movement you've already taken the pill.


You do realize that I could just switch the word "progressive" with the word "conservative" and you'd have an equally valid argument, right?


From what I've understood of true conservatives, e.g. Ron Paul, they seek to limit the state. The progressive MO is to appeal to the state for whatever.

Most people these days clamor to the state for solutions, more often than they seek solutions from themselves, each other, or through local communities.

The progressive ideology is partly responsible for the expanding scope of the federal government over everyone's decision-making. True conservatism doesn't advocate that.
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:29 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:No....this is where those who stand for Freedom and Liberty take a stand against hoarding barbarians and redistribution obsessed progressives that want the demi-god of government to be all powerful and control how every person lives their life


THIS IS WHERE WE FIGHT!



For instance, requiring drug testing in order to receive welfare money. But that's, of course, different...right? Perhaps you can explain how that has nothing at all to do with "wanting the demi-god of government to be all-powerful and control how every person lives their life"?

You're such a hypocrite.


No, not for instance.
You still don't understand? After all this time?
Woodruff, listen very carefully. It's not about requiring drug testing. It's about the states right to choose how to handle their own issues...for citizens to make and live under their own laws.... I.E. LIBERTY


If you're going to talk about FREEDOM! and LIBERTY!, why limit it to the state level? I understand that it's a Constitutional thing, but if you are actually and seriously interested in those two things, the reality is that the local level makes far more sense than the state level does. If you really believe in these two concepts, why are you not arguing for a Constitutional Amendment to make that happen?

FREEDOM! and LIBERTY! are INDIVIDUAL CONCEPTS, not state-wide concepts, you goon.


The issue you brought up, and keep in your pocket like a leprechaun and his last gold piece, was a state issue (Welfare drug testing). I responded to your response likewise at a state level. I did not limit anything to anything.
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby warmonger1981 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:31 pm

Well said bigballistalin.
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Juan_Bottom on Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:44 pm

I love how the Conservative side of CC is just rehashing scare phrases over and over in here.
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby notyou2 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:49 pm

Just because many liberals favour social programs does not necessarily mean they are out for a free ride. The majority of them work and know that their taxes would help pay for those social programs. They are simply in favour of a more equal tax rate FOR ALL and they support many social programs. You guys keep stating that all liberal people want a free ride. Most liberals realize that if the US did not start wars, the poor and the hungry would be non-existent in America.
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Night Strike on Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:51 pm

notyou2 wrote:They are simply in favour of a more equal tax rate FOR ALL and they support many social programs.


Except for the 47% that pay no federal income taxes?
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby notyou2 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:06 pm

Night Strike wrote:
notyou2 wrote:They are simply in favour of a more equal tax rate FOR ALL and they support many social programs.


Except for the 47% that pay no federal income taxes?


Gee, is there such a thing as state tax in America? Is it possible that if you don't earn above a certain threshold gross income, you only pay state tax and not federal tax in America?

How much federal tax did you pay last year NS?
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby HapSmo19 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:29 pm

notyou2 wrote:Is it possible that if you don't earn above a certain threshold gross income, you only pay state tax and not federal tax in America?


Wait,....didn't you just say you wanted a more equal tax rate FOR ALL?
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby notyou2 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:32 pm

HapSmo19 wrote:
notyou2 wrote:Is it possible that if you don't earn above a certain threshold gross income, you only pay state tax and not federal tax in America?


Wait,....didn't you just say you wanted a more equal tax rate FOR ALL?


Surely you aren't that stupid.
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Juan_Bottom on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:33 pm

That's a f*cking stupid argument. MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO PAY NO INCOME TAXES ARE IN THE SOUTH, WHERE THE CONSERVATIVE POLITICIANS RULE.

Image


Image


This is a huge part of the reason why Southern States actually get more money back from the Federal Government than they pay in. The South itself is a welfare state. If Conservative programs are so awesome at creating wealth and equality, then you have to ask yourself why the whole Conservative region is one big fail block.
And again, it's the progressive liberal states who financially support them, and it's the progressive liberals who want to help these states to get their shit together. Otherwise we'd amend the laws to say a state can only get as much money back as they pay.
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:38 pm

Picture One:

Unless 100% of the people in those southern states vote and 100% of them vote Republican, there is no correlation between what those people make and how they vote.

Picture Two:

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.htm
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Juan_Bottom on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:48 pm

thegreekdog wrote:Unless 100% of the people in those southern states vote and 100% of them vote Republican, there is no correlation between what those people make and how they vote.


I never said that there was and was very careful to say that Conservative politicians rule there. I did not say that poor Southerners vote for them. Odds favor that they won't.


thegreekdog wrote:Picture Two:

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.htm


That's not the point. The point is that even safety net of minimum wage is a front, and is a reason why people who don't make much shouldn't have to pay income tax. Being poor doesn't make a person a freeloader.

The government's definition of poverty is based on total income received. For example, the poverty level for 2012 was set at $23,050 (total yearly income) for a family of four.[5] Most Americans (58.5%) will spend at least one year below the poverty line at some point between ages 25 and 75.[6]

Relative poverty describes how income relates to the median income, and does not imply that the person is lacking anything. In general the United States has some of the highest relative poverty rates among industrialized countries.[8] According to a 2008 report released by the Carsey Institute at the University of New Hampshire, on average, rates of poverty are persistently higher in rural and inner city parts of the country as compared to suburban areas.[9][10] The number of people in the U.S. who are in poverty is increasing to record levels with the ranks of working-age poor approaching 1960s levels that led to the national war on poverty.[11]


EDIT:
The states with the highest proportions of hourly-paid workers earning at or below the Federal minimum wage were Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas (all between 8 and 10 percent). The states with the lowest percentage of workers earning at or below the Federal minimum wage were Oregon, California, Washington, and Alaska (all under 2 percent). It should be noted that some states have minimum wage laws establishing standards that exceed the Federal minimum wage. (See table 2 and table 3.)
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Frigidus on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:00 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:Sorry frigidus but your wrong. If a conservative speaks out their a hate Monger or racist. Liberals and democrats say everyone is equal just as long as you agree with them if I don't agree I'm an uneducated knuckle dragging mouth breather. Progressives believe in science as their religion since it is "Logical" before you know it eugenics is implemented and your unfit for reproduction. Georgia guide stones are a perfect example of such logic.


People that scream in your face and personally insult you if you disagree with them are not exclusive to one school of thought. As for the eugenics thing, that's just ridiculous. You do realize that people with different political views than you aren't all cartoon villains, right?
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Woodruff on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:01 pm

Frigidus wrote:
warmonger1981 wrote:Sorry frigidus but your wrong. If a conservative speaks out their a hate Monger or racist. Liberals and democrats say everyone is equal just as long as you agree with them if I don't agree I'm an uneducated knuckle dragging mouth breather. Progressives believe in science as their religion since it is "Logical" before you know it eugenics is implemented and your unfit for reproduction. Georgia guide stones are a perfect example of such logic.


People that scream in your face and personally insult you if you disagree with them are not exclusive to one school of thought. As for the eugenics thing, that's just ridiculous. You do realize that people with different political views than you aren't all cartoon villains, right?


But SOROS!!!!
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby tzor on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:34 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:I love how the Conservative side of CC is just rehashing scare phrases over and over in here.


And i love how the young ones seem to make the most pointless observations again and again.

Irony alert because I just did the same and that means ... I wish, oh how I wish!

Nope, I'm still a 50+ year old fart. :cry:
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby tzor on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:42 pm

Woodruff wrote:But SOROS!!!!


Is not a cartoon villan. I know people who know people (yea that does sound odd but it's true) who know Soros; knew what he did because he was there at the time.
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Woodruff on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:18 pm

tzor wrote:
Woodruff wrote:But SOROS!!!!


Is not a cartoon villan. I know people who know people (yea that does sound odd but it's true) who know Soros; knew what he did because he was there at the time.


If he did it (whatever "it" is), I would hope he was there at the time...
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:43 am

notyou2 wrote:
HapSmo19 wrote:
notyou2 wrote:Is it possible that if you don't earn above a certain threshold gross income, you only pay state tax and not federal tax in America?


Wait,....didn't you just say you wanted a more equal tax rate FOR ALL?


Surely you aren't that stupid.


Everyone pays the same rate? What a noble idea!!!

True Equality, or no equality.

I thought we were done with "separate but equal", but Progressives do believe in it when it comes to tax rates
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:23 am

Phatscotty wrote:
notyou2 wrote:
HapSmo19 wrote:
notyou2 wrote:Is it possible that if you don't earn above a certain threshold gross income, you only pay state tax and not federal tax in America?


Wait,....didn't you just say you wanted a more equal tax rate FOR ALL?


Surely you aren't that stupid.


Everyone pays the same rate? What a noble idea!!!

True Equality, or no equality.

I thought we were done with "separate but equal", but Progressives do believe in it when it comes to tax rates

Yeah, that will work when being born to the "right" people won't automatically mean you get to dictate the wages and salaries of everyone you employ, when you pay directly for every service, including the incidental services.. like being able to have an educated employee, healthy employee, reasonable trasnportation, phones, electric service, fuel sources, etc, etc, etc...

When all of that AND every last bit of research that goes into your products are paid for by you, THEN you get to say that taxing everyone equally is "nobel".
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:29 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:Unless 100% of the people in those southern states vote and 100% of them vote Republican, there is no correlation between what those people make and how they vote.


I never said that there was and was very careful to say that Conservative politicians rule there. I did not say that poor Southerners vote for them. Odds favor that they won't.


thegreekdog wrote:Picture Two:

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.htm


That's not the point. The point is that even safety net of minimum wage is a front, and is a reason why people who don't make much shouldn't have to pay income tax. Being poor doesn't make a person a freeloader.

The government's definition of poverty is based on total income received. For example, the poverty level for 2012 was set at $23,050 (total yearly income) for a family of four.[5] Most Americans (58.5%) will spend at least one year below the poverty line at some point between ages 25 and 75.[6]

Relative poverty describes how income relates to the median income, and does not imply that the person is lacking anything. In general the United States has some of the highest relative poverty rates among industrialized countries.[8] According to a 2008 report released by the Carsey Institute at the University of New Hampshire, on average, rates of poverty are persistently higher in rural and inner city parts of the country as compared to suburban areas.[9][10] The number of people in the U.S. who are in poverty is increasing to record levels with the ranks of working-age poor approaching 1960s levels that led to the national war on poverty.[11]


EDIT:
The states with the highest proportions of hourly-paid workers earning at or below the Federal minimum wage were Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas (all between 8 and 10 percent). The states with the lowest percentage of workers earning at or below the Federal minimum wage were Oregon, California, Washington, and Alaska (all under 2 percent). It should be noted that some states have minimum wage laws establishing standards that exceed the Federal minimum wage. (See table 2 and table 3.)


I don't think people who don't pay federal income taxes are freeloaders. I just see these two pictures a lot and they anger me because they mean virtually nothing.
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:53 pm

Facts mean things. You're talking about how facts are applied, and that's different. They supported my post quite well.

Juan_Bottom wrote:This is a huge part of the reason why Southern States actually get more money back from the Federal Government than they pay in. The South itself is a welfare state. If Conservative programs are so awesome at creating wealth and equality, then you have to ask yourself why the whole Conservative region is one big fail block.
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:00 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
notyou2 wrote:
HapSmo19 wrote:
notyou2 wrote:Is it possible that if you don't earn above a certain threshold gross income, you only pay state tax and not federal tax in America?


Wait,....didn't you just say you wanted a more equal tax rate FOR ALL?


Surely you aren't that stupid.


Everyone pays the same rate? What a noble idea!!!

True Equality, or no equality.

I thought we were done with "separate but equal", but Progressives do believe in it when it comes to tax rates


Meh. Income isn't generated the same way for everyone, so there's no such thing as tax equality.
Besides that, you're the one who believes that states have the right to deny marriage for homosexuals and replace it with civil unions. Separate but equal indeed, and quite hypocritical of you as well.
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:22 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:Facts mean things. You're talking about how facts are applied, and that's different. They supported my post quite well.

Juan_Bottom wrote:This is a huge part of the reason why Southern States actually get more money back from the Federal Government than they pay in. The South itself is a welfare state. If Conservative programs are so awesome at creating wealth and equality, then you have to ask yourself why the whole Conservative region is one big fail block.


It's because all the free-loading liberals go down there to get all that loot. That's what the facts support.
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:25 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Facts mean things. You're talking about how facts are applied, and that's different. They supported my post quite well.

Juan_Bottom wrote:This is a huge part of the reason why Southern States actually get more money back from the Federal Government than they pay in. The South itself is a welfare state. If Conservative programs are so awesome at creating wealth and equality, then you have to ask yourself why the whole Conservative region is one big fail block.


It's because all the free-loading liberals go down there to get all that loot. That's what the facts support.


SOURCE!
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Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:27 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Facts mean things. You're talking about how facts are applied, and that's different. They supported my post quite well.

Juan_Bottom wrote:This is a huge part of the reason why Southern States actually get more money back from the Federal Government than they pay in. The South itself is a welfare state. If Conservative programs are so awesome at creating wealth and equality, then you have to ask yourself why the whole Conservative region is one big fail block.


It's because all the free-loading liberals go down there to get all that loot. That's what the facts support.


Ohhhh
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