The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderators: Community Team, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby patches70 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:08 pm

Woodruff wrote:
patches70 wrote:
I don't really understand this one. The kids getting free lunches are boycotting the free lunches? I can understand why they may be upset at the smaller portions, but if their family is actually so poor that they've qualified for free lunches, the odds are at least decent that this is STILL their best meal of the day.




Oh, I'm figuring that those poorer income families, those kids won't be boycotting the lunches, no matter how small or whatever.

It's that an authority figure, talking to the kids boycotting is saying in effect- "Your actions are putting into jeopardy these other kids who depend on these free lunches, Your action could cause us to lose the ability to provide these lunches to them. You don't want some of your classmates to go hungry do you?"

And that, my friend, is a type of coercion.

And, I would like to add, Woodruff, that if The State want's to provide free lunches to poor families, then do so. But it should not be dependent at all on if other students purchase school lunches or not. The implication of the school official is that if these boycotts continue it could put the lunch subsidy at risk. This is complete BS and is is called coercive persuasion which is very unethical and immoral. I would like to think you would agree with that.
Last edited by patches70 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Corporal patches70
 
Posts: 556
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:44 pm
Medals: 2
Standard Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:17 pm

patches70 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
patches70 wrote:
I don't really understand this one. The kids getting free lunches are boycotting the free lunches? I can understand why they may be upset at the smaller portions, but if their family is actually so poor that they've qualified for free lunches, the odds are at least decent that this is STILL their best meal of the day.




Oh, I'm figuring that those poorer income families, those kids won't be boycotting the lunches, no matter how small or whatever.

It's that an authority figure, talking to the kids boycotting is saying in effect- "Your actions are putting into jeopardy these other kids who depend on these free lunches, Your action could cause us to lose the ability to provide these lunches to them. You don't want some of your classmates to go hungry do you?"

And that, my friend, is a type of coercion.

Except, who is coercing whom and why?

The poor kids have not had the option of better lunches for some time now. They are pretty well stuck eating unhealthy foods..and, for a lifetime, get used to eating those foods. My son was introduced to "eggo" type waffles, french toast sticks and other "wonderful" "foods" when he bought his meals at school. He still buys his lunch, but not his breakfasts. Its a compromise, but he felt funny bringing his own lunch.

The real "coersion" has been school cafeterias and administrations caring more about cutting costs than giving the kids a healthy and tasty lifetime example of the kinds of meals they should eat.
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2426
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:20 pm

tzor wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Another hit piece without any skepticism. Where are the experts? It's just kids and their mom talking.


And this so clearly shows the whole problem in the progressive movement. Where are the experts? Who are the experts? What exactly are they expert at? .

Since you are unclear, here is a definition for you:

definition of expert by the Free Online Dictionary ...
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/expertex·pert (k spûrt) n. 1. A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject. \

See, most people think actually having knowledge of a subject gives you more credibility than people who just spout off opinions.even if those opinions are based on the US constitution
Last edited by PLAYER57832 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2426
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Symmetry on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:20 pm

patches70 wrote:
Oh, I'm figuring that those poorer income families, those kids won't be boycotting the lunches, no matter how small or whatever.

It's that an authority figure, talking to the kids boycotting is saying in effect- Your actions are putting into jeopardy these other kids who depend on these free lunches, "Your action could cause us to lose the ability to provide these lunches to them. You don't want some of your classmates to go hungry do you?"
And that, my friend, is a type of coercion.


Essentially you're bullshitting. I've read your post three times and oddly enough it makes less sense each time.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Symmetry
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:49 am
Medals: 2
Standard Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Night Strike on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:31 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:The REAL truth is that some school districts have decided cutting portions in draconian ways is easier than actually providing more healthy, lower fat alternatives in ways that kids might eat them.


Actually, the REAL truth is that calorie limits have been dictated by the federal government, not by "some school districts".
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8633
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:40 pm

Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:The REAL truth is that some school districts have decided cutting portions in draconian ways is easier than actually providing more healthy, lower fat alternatives in ways that kids might eat them.


Actually, the REAL truth is that calorie limits have been dictated by the federal government, not by "some school districts".

And giving smaller breaded, formed chicken "patties" is much easier than adding a salad bar.
But.. a salad bar will do the same thing without portions being cut, so.. no.
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2426
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Night Strike on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:51 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:The REAL truth is that some school districts have decided cutting portions in draconian ways is easier than actually providing more healthy, lower fat alternatives in ways that kids might eat them.


Actually, the REAL truth is that calorie limits have been dictated by the federal government, not by "some school districts".

And giving smaller breaded, formed chicken "patties" is much easier than adding a salad bar.
But.. a salad bar will do the same thing without portions being cut, so.. no.


The schools have to have a set number of meat or meat substitutes each week, so they have to do smaller chicken patties or other such meals instead of simply replacing it with salads.
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8633
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby patches70 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:01 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
patches70 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
patches70 wrote:
I don't really understand this one. The kids getting free lunches are boycotting the free lunches? I can understand why they may be upset at the smaller portions, but if their family is actually so poor that they've qualified for free lunches, the odds are at least decent that this is STILL their best meal of the day.




Oh, I'm figuring that those poorer income families, those kids won't be boycotting the lunches, no matter how small or whatever.

It's that an authority figure, talking to the kids boycotting is saying in effect- "Your actions are putting into jeopardy these other kids who depend on these free lunches, Your action could cause us to lose the ability to provide these lunches to them. You don't want some of your classmates to go hungry do you?"

And that, my friend, is a type of coercion.

Except, who is coercing whom and why?

The poor kids have not had the option of better lunches for some time now. They are pretty well stuck eating unhealthy foods..and, for a lifetime, get used to eating those foods. My son was introduced to "eggo" type waffles, french toast sticks and other "wonderful" "foods" when he bought his meals at school. He still buys his lunch, but not his breakfasts. Its a compromise, but he felt funny bringing his own lunch.

The real "coersion" has been school cafeterias and administrations caring more about cutting costs than giving the kids a healthy and tasty lifetime example of the kinds of meals they should eat.


I'm pretty sure you're completely missing my point.

I don't care who gets school lunches, who brings their own lunch, what the portions are, or anything else on that matter. That's just how The State works, I accept that.

Some wish to boycott and bring their own lunch to school, for whatever reason. More power to them.
Some wish to keep on buying the school lunches, for whatever reason. More power to them.

There is plenty of room for either. What I'm talking about is the horrible tactics being used to attempt to change the minds of those boycotting. Those tactics are unethical, immoral and immaterial.

That is all I was commenting about. If a family has decided that the portions being served at school are too small, not healthy enough or for whatever reason wish to pack their own lunch, that should be all fine and dandy to all concerned. Period.
There is no reason for the school officials or those who purchase school lunches, to try and persuade those who do not wish to participate in the school lunch program using the lunch lady losing her job or the poor kid might not be able to get a free lunch because of the actions of the boycotting students.

The tactics mentioned in the article posted are disgusting. Attempts to shame those who are opting out of the lunch program into joining back with the Collective.
What is wrong with someone being dissatisfied with a product and taking legal measures to provide said product on their own?
Not a damn thing. More power to them and the arguments on why they shouldn't be doing that are all wrong. Hell, Player, you're bitching about the school lunch program yourself. If you don't like the school lunch program then by all means, shouldn't you have the option to send your own kid in with his own lunch?

If one is unable to provide said lunches on their own, there really isn't a damn thing they can do about it, is there? They have to take what's provided. And by all means, if what's provided doesn't satisfy them, even though they cannot afford or provide better for themselves anyway, then they may petition for changes.
But don't try and make that petition dependent on forcing everyone else who can provide for themselves to be forced into participating into something they do not wish to participate in.
Corporal patches70
 
Posts: 556
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:44 pm
Medals: 2
Standard Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Woodruff on Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:04 pm

patches70 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:I don't really understand this one. The kids getting free lunches are boycotting the free lunches? I can understand why they may be upset at the smaller portions, but if their family is actually so poor that they've qualified for free lunches, the odds are at least decent that this is STILL their best meal of the day.


Oh, I'm figuring that those poorer income families, those kids won't be boycotting the lunches, no matter how small or whatever.


Ok, fair enough.

patches70 wrote:It's that an authority figure, talking to the kids boycotting is saying in effect- "Your actions are putting into jeopardy these other kids who depend on these free lunches, Your action could cause us to lose the ability to provide these lunches to them. You don't want some of your classmates to go hungry do you?"
And that, my friend, is a type of coercion.
And, I would like to add, Woodruff, that if The State want's to provide free lunches to poor families, then do so. But it should not be dependent at all on if other students purchase school lunches or not. The implication of the school official is that if these boycotts continue it could put the lunch subsidy at risk. This is complete BS and is is called coercive persuasion which is very unethical and immoral. I would like to think you would agree with that.


Yes, I believe I already agreed with you on that. You didn't read my post that you responded to?
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4964
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Woodruff on Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:06 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
patches70 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:I don't really understand this one. The kids getting free lunches are boycotting the free lunches? I can understand why they may be upset at the smaller portions, but if their family is actually so poor that they've qualified for free lunches, the odds are at least decent that this is STILL their best meal of the day.


Oh, I'm figuring that those poorer income families, those kids won't be boycotting the lunches, no matter how small or whatever.

It's that an authority figure, talking to the kids boycotting is saying in effect- "Your actions are putting into jeopardy these other kids who depend on these free lunches, Your action could cause us to lose the ability to provide these lunches to them. You don't want some of your classmates to go hungry do you?"

And that, my friend, is a type of coercion.


Except, who is coercing whom and why?


Pretty clearly, in this example, a lunch lady was.

PLAYER57832 wrote:The poor kids have not had the option of better lunches for some time now. They are pretty well stuck eating unhealthy foods..and, for a lifetime, get used to eating those foods. My son was introduced to "eggo" type waffles, french toast sticks and other "wonderful" "foods" when he bought his meals at school. He still buys his lunch, but not his breakfasts. Its a compromise, but he felt funny bringing his own lunch.
The real "coersion" has been school cafeterias and administrations caring more about cutting costs than giving the kids a healthy and tasty lifetime example of the kinds of meals they should eat.


That's not really coercion. That's more like requirement.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4964
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Woodruff on Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:07 pm

Symmetry wrote:
patches70 wrote:
Oh, I'm figuring that those poorer income families, those kids won't be boycotting the lunches, no matter how small or whatever.

It's that an authority figure, talking to the kids boycotting is saying in effect- Your actions are putting into jeopardy these other kids who depend on these free lunches, "Your action could cause us to lose the ability to provide these lunches to them. You don't want some of your classmates to go hungry do you?"
And that, my friend, is a type of coercion.


Essentially you're bullshitting. I've read your post three times and oddly enough it makes less sense each time.


Really?
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4964
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:23 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Then you can't say those kids are starving.
So lets ignore that.

Why can't you bring your own food to your high school?


These kids did precisely that, and good for them. The school was not providing them with an adequate service, so they boycotted that service and found an alternative.


So what's the problem? I'm asking this in a completely serious manner. I see no problem here.


That kids chose to stand against the nanny-state control is a good thing. The fact that the federal government thinks they need to dictate the number of calories kids get to eat from school lunches is the problem. It's absolute control by the government that simply harms people.


It's not a problem, in my opinion. Childhood obesity is a very serious problem in this nation. You want less taxes and less government spending...well, a healthy populace is one way to help that.

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Another hit piece without any skepticism. Where are the experts? It's just kids and their mom talking.


Since when do the "experts" get to decide my personal freedoms?


It's funny how often you're in favor of the government dictating personal freedoms that you like, and how often you're not in favor of the government dictating personal freedoms you don't like.


Examples?


To name two off the top of my head, "gay marriage" and "legalization of drugs".


To me, it's not about being for or against. It's about "in practice", the people choose at the state level. That is democracy. That is Liberty
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 2146
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm
Medals: 90
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (5)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Training Achievement (6) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (12)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Woodruff on Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:30 pm

Phatscotty wrote:To me, it's not about being for or against. It's about "in practice", the people choose at the state level. That is democracy. That is Liberty


Did that actually make sense to you when you typed it? Because that is NOT liberty, nor is it necessarily democracy. Your definitions seem to become more fucked up every time you try to post one.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4964
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: The Progressive Movement - A political history lesson

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:26 am

"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 2146
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm
Medals: 90
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (5)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Training Achievement (6) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (12)

PreviousNext

Return to Babble-On Five

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: patches70

Login