Why do you hate bicyclists?

[BigBallinStalin]

And if there's no side of the road? Then what?

Riding on sidewalks is dangerous for pedestrians and dangerous for bicycles when using 'pedestrian' walkways at intersections.


And I'll drive in the middle of a lane in areas where people park their cars and frequently open their doors without looking. You seem to imply that I should sacrifice my health so that you can arrive to work about 1 minute earlier. That perspective is cruel, selfish, and dumb. Hopefully, that's not your perspective, but demanding that bicyclists ride in area X ignores the risks which bicyclists may incur in area X. Other risks include running over debris (which is common in the shoulder on roads), and there's problems of people stepping to quickly into the street from the sidewalk without looking, etc.

I did not indicate there was no side of the road. There most certainly are sides of the road, at least where I drive in Philadelphia. I can't say the same for whever you ride your unmotorized death vehicle. I'm certainly not suggesting you sacrifice your health so that I can arrive to work (or home) approximately 5 minutes earlier. I didn't force you to ride a bicycle. I also didn't force you to ride your bike in the middle of a car lane when there are perfectly good sides of the road. Perhaps if you weren't in such a hurry to get to the next emo concert or home from your art class, you would pull the cuffs of your skinny jeans up and ride on the side of the road.

And I likewise am unaware of the intricate problems you face with bicyclists in Philadelphia. Please note that I don't take kindly upon a large number of bicyclists because they drive like idiots, but so do many motorists, so there's that for you. Nevertheless, I won't risk injury or death in order to please some motorist by not riding in the middle of the road intermittently.

Sure, riding my bike is my choice, just as driving your car is your choice; however, we both have a right to most roads, so you can just... deal with it.jpg

My concern is that there's many motorists such as yourself who have no idea of the risks which bicyclists face. This lack of knowing the other fails to deter such motorists from demanding that bicyclists do stupid things. Call it an unintended consequence which you're hopefully aware of by now.

If you ever rode a bike, you'd realize that going 10-15mph while being 2 feet from the front of your vehicle makes a huge difference in being able to look around corners and respond accordingly. Therefore, your questions are leading yourself to an imagined scenario. Of course, some bicyclists zoom through with little regard to the "who got there first" order, but in that case, it would be wrong of the bicyclist.

In my informal rules, timing of arrival to stop signs and stop times matter. Of course, that isn't worth expanding on ITT, but it all operates as I view each situation. Granted, there are some bicyclists who roll through stop signs when cars arrived first at the sign. That would be wrong. In circumstances where the bicyclist would arrive first or would have to stop first, then it's correct for him or her to roll through the stop sign.

Why would I have an issue with a cyclist rolling through a stop sign or stop light when it's safe or when there is no one there first? That would be weird. I envision (really, I saw one of these today) the following two scenarios:

Scenario One: Traffic light on a busy intersection in a major metropolitan area. The light for the northbound lane turns green. The light for the westbound lane is red. The vehicle traffic begins to drive northbound, obeying all traffic laws. A bike travelling westbound rides through the red light it has and causes all cars travelling northbound to stop suddenly, nearly causing an accident. It happens regularly and it happened today.

Yeah that bicyclist is an asshole.

Scenario Two: Stop sign on a not busy intersection in a major metropolitan area. A car arrives at the stop sign, stops, the driver looks both ways, and then proceeds into the intersection. A bike blows by, nearly causing the driver to crash into it.

And that bicyclist is an asshole.

Obviously, we're in agreement here.

I dunno, TGD. On the flat streets, I can get up to 25mph (maybe 30?), but that's pushing it for me. Usually in heavily congested areas, cars are going about 10-15, which is a speed I can easily push through and weave in and out of traffic. Somehow that's wrong? No, it isn't. I'm not posing a threat to anyone, and I know how to change lanes while incurring minimal risks to my own life.

You may not be posing a threat of physical harm to someone, but you're certianly threatening drivers. This happened last week - One way, two lane road in a major metrpolitan area. Traffic light turns green and traffic begins moving north. I go to switch lanes (from left lane to right lane) and a bike weaves around me to my right such that I almost hit the cyclist. What if I had hit the cyclist? No physical harm to me, right? But there may be harm to my property (car) and to my livelihood (law suit, court proceedings). Wait with the rest of us or assume the risk and lose in court.

So switching lanes without being perceptive enough is your right? Because that's what seems to be your case here.

While I'm moving through traffic, if the motorist pays attention to their side view mirrors, they should see me. At higher speeds, I hardly swerve around cars and come up right alongside them... maybe the bicyclist was switching behind you--starting from your left side and moving toward your right side--and came up right alongside you?

If that was the case, then that was an unnecessarily risky move for the bicyclist, and so I understand your concern here.

Good for you, but don't you think bedub's characterization of all bicyclists is pretty absurd?

I've noticed that when people are surrounded in a frame of steel, they tend to be more likely to be oblivious, e.g. changing CDs or radio stations, texting, talking on phone, fiddling with their seats/electronics, looking at the GPS, singing, etc.

I have a major problem with drivers such as these as well. I'm one of those very pleasant individuals who honks the horn repeatedly when I find someone talking on their cell phone. But this thread is about cyclists, not drivers. Why don't you create a thread about the annoying habits of drivers?

I only mention it in regard to bedub's silly comment. Comparing the risks of oblivion seemed useful.

I only have my personal experience to rely upon with respect to cyclists. I would like to say that most cyclists obey traffic laws and use the roads courteously. But in my experience, 9 out of 10 don't obey traffic laws and use the roads irresponsibly. I have witnessed two accidents with cyclists in seven years working in a major metropolitan area. I have witnessed numerous near accidents with cyclists in those seven years (possibly hundreds). In all cases, the cyclist was at fault for not obeying traffic laws and not using the road responsibly.

Haha, live and learn, I guess. If some bicyclist is driving like an idiot and gets nailed, then I feel bad for the driver for being put through that situation. For the bicyclist, I don't feel much empathy. They get punished for making poor decisions.

[Funkyterrance]

I think partly what may be going on here is that those people who hate bicyclists are in fact envious of the cyclists. Here they are riding to their dead end jobs in their stinky cars listening to political talk shows(they're already annoyed). The cyclists, on the other hand, are enjoying the fresh air with the wind in their hair, happy as clams in the sand.

[fadedpsychosis]

you think bicycles are bad? try mopeds in F'ing naples! try all of the above, but add in the law that if you hit them and they're wearing a helmet you're at fault regardless of how they're driving... oh, and the locals learn to drive on their mopeds... so they drive their cars the EXACT SAME WAY. stop lights/signs and street lines are an illusion here my friend

That sounds terrible.

driving in naples is absolutely terrifying for me to be honest... it's why I've started carpooling as much as possible. I don't mind paying for someone else's gas if I'm not the one driving

[deathcomesrippin]

I dont ever post in these forums, but I feel strongly about bikers.

I mainly hate bikers because biking looks stupid. No one looks good biking except hot chicks who already look good. It's goofy, people wear goofy clothes, and the gear looks goofy too. That's all I have to say on the matter. I don't drive and I don't bike, so I have no opinion on that part of it. Bikers just look stupid.

[maxfaraday]

I dont ever post in these forums, but I feel strongly about bikers.

I mainly hate bikers because biking looks stupid. No one looks good biking except hot chicks who already look good. It's goofy, people wear goofy clothes, and the gear looks goofy too. That's all I have to say on the matter. I don't drive and I don't bike, so I have no opinion on that part of it. Bikers just look stupid.

Foed.

[deathcomesrippin]

I dont ever post in these forums, but I feel strongly about bikers.

I mainly hate bikers because biking looks stupid. No one looks good biking except hot chicks who already look good. It's goofy, people wear goofy clothes, and the gear looks goofy too. That's all I have to say on the matter. I don't drive and I don't bike, so I have no opinion on that part of it. Bikers just look stupid.

Foed.

Damn shame.

[Symmetry]

I dont ever post in these forums, but I feel strongly about bikers.

I mainly hate bikers because biking looks stupid. No one looks good biking except hot chicks who already look good. It's goofy, people wear goofy clothes, and the gear looks goofy too. That's all I have to say on the matter. I don't drive and I don't bike, so I have no opinion on that part of it. Bikers just look stupid.

Because they're too awesome?

Shamelessly reposted.

[deathcomesrippin]

I dont ever post in these forums, but I feel strongly about bikers.

I mainly hate bikers because biking looks stupid. No one looks good biking except hot chicks who already look good. It's goofy, people wear goofy clothes, and the gear looks goofy too. That's all I have to say on the matter. I don't drive and I don't bike, so I have no opinion on that part of it. Bikers just look stupid.

Because they're too awesome?

Shamelessly reposted.

Those guys don't look so bad I suppose. But, on the whole, most bikers you see cruising the streets are not doing that.

[Symmetry]

I dont ever post in these forums, but I feel strongly about bikers.

I mainly hate bikers because biking looks stupid. No one looks good biking except hot chicks who already look good. It's goofy, people wear goofy clothes, and the gear looks goofy too. That's all I have to say on the matter. I don't drive and I don't bike, so I have no opinion on that part of it. Bikers just look stupid.

Because they're too awesome?

Shamelessly reposted.

Those guys don't look so bad I suppose. But, on the whole, most bikers you see cruising the streets are not doing that.

I would hope not.

[Funkyterrance]

I dont ever post in these forums, but I feel strongly about bikers.

I mainly hate bikers because biking looks stupid. No one looks good biking except hot chicks who already look good. It's goofy, people wear goofy clothes, and the gear looks goofy too. That's all I have to say on the matter. I don't drive and I don't bike, so I have no opinion on that part of it. Bikers just look stupid.

This is sooo not true..
I bike either in my street clothes or in the nude. I don't believe in all that fancy gear, It cramps my style (wheelies, standing on my seat no hands, riding backwards, etc.).

[Doc_Brown]

A couple comments:
1) In a fair number of jurisdictions, bicycles are permitted to treat stop signs the same as motor vehicles treat yield signs, and stop lights as stop signs (the later is particularly common since bicycles often aren't heavy enough to trigger the light to change).
2) Bicycles on sidewalks are expected to behave the same as foot traffic, and those on roads are treated as motor vehicle traffic.
3) I will never ride my bike on a sidewalk. It's far more dangerous than riding on the road. The problem is that vehicle drivers don't look for traffic coming down the sidewalks and will only look at the roads. I've been nearly hit several times by drivers pulling into or out of businesses that weren't looking at the sidewalks.
4) By law, bicycles on a roadway without a bike lane are required to ride as close to the right hand edge of the road as is practical. Most cyclists ride approximately in the right-hand tire track from vehicles. Bicycles are permitted to "take the lane" if necessary. I will often slide over to the middle of the lane if I need to make myself more visible, or if someone looks like they're about to pass me as we're going up a hill (I've had cars try to pass me on the way up a hill, only to have another car come the opposite way in the other lane, so they swerve and run me off the road). When I know it's safe to pass me, I'll usually slide well over the right and wave cars by.
5) I think it's a great idea to tax cyclists. Let's tax them in relative terms to automobiles based on how much pollution they produce, how much wear and tear they put on the roads, the amount of mileage they travel, and how much damage stupid cyclists cause to roadways and other vehicles. (Note also that bike lanes and bike paths are usually paid for by property taxes. Also, the vast majority of cyclists also have drivers licenses and cars and pay those taxes.)
6) There are definitely idiot cyclists. The majority of the ones I'm aware of are in urban areas in larger cities, and they're often bicycle couriers. They should be subject to ticketing the same as motor vehicles, and they typically are (I've known cyclists to receive tickets before).
7) Stories of idiot cyclists have been mentioned on here. I could tell story after story of idiot drivers that tried to inflict physical injury on me while I was out riding. Just to clarify, I avoid high traffic roads as much as possible and stick to back roads. Still, I've had people drive past with a guy in the passenger side hanging out trying to kick me as they passed. I've been hit in the back with soft drink cups. I've had people drive slowly by screaming at me. The majority of bike-vehicle accidents I'm aware of result in hit-and-runs (and obviously it isn't the cyclist lying in his blood on the side of the road that's running).

[Timminz]

Most bicyclists are fine: they obey the rules, and don't cause trouble. There is a minority of them though, who I'm worried I'm going to kill someday, because they do stupid shit like pulling from behind something straight to in front of me while I'm travelling at full-speed, and barely have time to stop before running them the fuck over.

Anyway yeah. Most are great, some are idiot assholes. Same as drivers. Same as pedestrians. Same as almost every group of people.

[notyou2]

Almost every complaint about cyclists could be said about cars and drivers as well. Timmy is right, it is not the transportation mode that is the problem, it is the operator.

[nietzsche]

If we had electronics doing the driving, we could change our vehicles already. With crashes being a thing of the past, cars won't need to be 1 ton of steel. They could be gracious bubbles of plastic and we could play CC games while we arrive.

[notyou2]

If we had electronics doing the driving, we could change our vehicles already. We crashes being a thing of the past, cars won't need to be 1 ton of steel. They could be gracious bubbles of plastic and we could play CC games while we arrive.

Sneak back in to California again, They are testing driver-less cars there now.