The Great Presidential Debate

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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:24 am

Woodruff wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:"Biden's teeth are so white they're voting for Romney."


What? <laughing> Where did that come from?


http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/tech/soci ... ?hpt=hp_t1
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Woodruff on Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:29 am

Bones2484 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:"Biden's teeth are so white they're voting for Romney."


What? <laughing> Where did that come from?


http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/tech/soci ... ?hpt=hp_t1


Oh damn, that was great.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Woodruff on Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:03 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Who do you guys think won?

+1 for Paul Ryan here


If Ryan had a stroke and shit his pants on stage, you would hail it as a rare glimpse into the vulnerable, sensitive soul of Paul Ryan.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Symmetry on Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:29 pm

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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:06 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

Image

Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.


You quoted the non-important part of that poll. Specifically the one that said more republicans were polled: "One-third of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, with 31% identifying themselves as Democrats"

I find this stat from the same article you linked MUCH more interesting:
"A CBS News poll of uncommitted voters who watched the debate gave Biden the edge over Ryan by a 50%-31% margin. Uncommitted voters made up roughly ten percent or less of the debate audience."


What you refer to as the "important part" is what I refer to as "the excuse" :twisted:

btw, have you seen the negative impact Biden had on female voters? They are running for their lives! :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby MeDeFe on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:34 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

Image

Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.


You quoted the non-important part of that poll. Specifically the one that said more republicans were polled: "One-third of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, with 31% identifying themselves as Democrats"

I find this stat from the same article you linked MUCH more interesting:
"A CBS News poll of uncommitted voters who watched the debate gave Biden the edge over Ryan by a 50%-31% margin. Uncommitted voters made up roughly ten percent or less of the debate audience."


What you refer to as the "important part" is what I refer to as "the excuse" :twisted:

btw, have you seen the negative impact Biden had on female voters? They are running for their lives! :twisted: :twisted:

Does that mean it's also just an excuse when you say that democrats are over-represented in polls that ask whether people are more likely to vote for Romney or Obama?
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:44 pm

MeDeFe wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

Image

Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.


You quoted the non-important part of that poll. Specifically the one that said more republicans were polled: "One-third of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, with 31% identifying themselves as Democrats"

I find this stat from the same article you linked MUCH more interesting:
"A CBS News poll of uncommitted voters who watched the debate gave Biden the edge over Ryan by a 50%-31% margin. Uncommitted voters made up roughly ten percent or less of the debate audience."


What you refer to as the "important part" is what I refer to as "the excuse" :twisted:

btw, have you seen the negative impact Biden had on female voters? They are running for their lives! :twisted: :twisted:

Does that mean it's also just an excuse when you say that democrats are over-represented in polls that ask whether people are more likely to vote for Romney or Obama?


I would be glad to answer. Would you mind making the conversion first of the original statement from bones. Specifically the "1/3 of people who were Republicans compared to a mere 31% being Democrats"

How does that look when the 1/3 is turned into numbers? Just need to be clear on the premise before I continue
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:47 pm

Phatscotty wrote:I would be glad to answer. Would you mind making the conversion first of the original statement from bones. Specifically the "1/3 of people who were Republicans compared to a mere 31% being Democrats"

How does that look when the 1/3 is turned into numbers?


What the hell are you talking about? 33% vs 31%, 48% vs 44%. You don't see any correlation between very close numbers?

Also, why did you conveniently skip over the most important part of my post that I clearly called attention to? The one that said undecideds were 50%-31% for Biden. Guess it's silly of me to think it's more important at this stage of the election to focus on the voters who didn't make up their minds months ago.

But then again, that metric doesn't fit the point you were trying to prove.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby MegaProphet on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:49 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

Image

Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.


You quoted the non-important part of that poll. Specifically the one that said more republicans were polled: "One-third of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, with 31% identifying themselves as Democrats"

I find this stat from the same article you linked MUCH more interesting:
"A CBS News poll of uncommitted voters who watched the debate gave Biden the edge over Ryan by a 50%-31% margin. Uncommitted voters made up roughly ten percent or less of the debate audience."


What you refer to as the "important part" is what I refer to as "the excuse" :twisted:

btw, have you seen the negative impact Biden had on female voters? They are running for their lives! :twisted: :twisted:

Does that mean it's also just an excuse when you say that democrats are over-represented in polls that ask whether people are more likely to vote for Romney or Obama?


I would be glad to answer. Would you mind making the conversion first of the original statement from bones. Specifically the "1/3 of people who were Republicans compared to a mere 31% being Democrats"

How does that look when the 1/3 is turned into numbers? Just need to be clear on the premise before I continue

1/3 is a number, right?
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby luns101 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:24 pm

Most of the substance in this debate was trivialized or overshadowed by the stupid, condescending antics by Biden. Well that, and the constant interrupting. I thought Biden burned Ryan pretty well over requests for stimulus $$, and Ryan looked more competent on Afghanistan.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:36 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I would be glad to answer. Would you mind making the conversion first of the original statement from bones. Specifically the "1/3 of people who were Republicans compared to a mere 31% being Democrats"

How does that look when the 1/3 is turned into numbers?


What the hell are you talking about? 33% vs 31%, 48% vs 44%. You don't see any correlation between very close numbers?

Also, why did you conveniently skip over the most important part of my post that I clearly called attention to? The one that said undecideds were 50%-31% for Biden. Guess it's silly of me to think it's more important at this stage of the election to focus on the voters who didn't make up their minds months ago.

But then again, that metric doesn't fit the point you were trying to prove.


I didn't skip it. Something was already posted about it

Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.


I just think it's silly to point out that the crowd was somehow lopsided or warped based on a 33% R - 31% Dem. Sure, there is a 2% difference, but why is it worth pointing out? That seems to be about as good as it will get, and if you really want to split hairs, then it could also mean Republicans were WAY under-represented and Democrats over, since 42% of Americans view themselves as Conservative, 35% moderate, and only 20% Liberal. And that does not even mention the implication that was attempted by putting "1/3" and "31%" in the same sentence. That is to make the gap between 33% and 31% seem bigger than it is, and that is what motivated my response.

The crowd we are talking about had over 50% more Democrats in it than America does, on scale (31% in crowd, 20% nationally).

Oh yeah, and this is all with the moderator being a firm liberal, Obama even attended her wedding.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:54 pm

oVo wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Who do you guys think won?

Biden mopped the floor with him... it wasn't about being assertive or rude,
the facts were behind Joe even with his disconcerting smile.
Eddie Munster is a numbers kind of guy and he failed to produce
them to make his point, with the exception of "The Five Things"
a Republican White House intends to do to make it fix things...
whatever that means. It's a secret plan that has yet to be revealed.

BUT... the centrifuges in Iran are "spinning faster now."

In the first debate Romney claimed he would create 9,000,000 new jobs
and tonight Ryan upped the ante to 12,000,000.

Statements on abortion/contraception and Supreme Court/Roe v Wade.
Give the Government control over your choices or lack of them,
even though it should not be a religious based decision?
Not all Americans share the GOPs beliefs.

IF I vote for Romney will he foot the bill for their college education?
Mitt spent $45 million of his own money in his failed Presidential bid
against Bush. Since he has much more in his offshore accounts than
Obama, Biden and Ryan combined I expect him to be generous with
his donations to charities.


I just don't understand this kind of thing. Why would you focus on one group's lies and not the other group's lies? For example, Joe Biden indicated that he did not vote for either war, when he did. The vice president also indicated the $5 trillion tax cut in the Romney plan, which is completely misleading.

I thought Biden won the debate because he was way more assertive and in control. Biden had better one-liners. Ryan is too much of a figures guy. I also didn't like Ryan's cadence for some reason. He sounded like he was a 10 year old. The moderating was great.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:59 pm

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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:00 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
I just don't understand this kind of thing. Why would you focus on one group's lies and not the other group's lies? For example, Joe Biden indicated that he did not vote for either war, when he did. The vice president also indicated the $5 trillion tax cut in the Romney plan, which is completely misleading.

I thought Biden won the debate because he was way more assertive and in control. Biden had better one-liners. Ryan is too much of a figures guy. I also didn't like Ryan's cadence for some reason. He sounded like he was a 10 year old. The moderating was great.


I'm not speaking ill of you per say, but when we've been reduced to discussing the relative quality of a debate in terms of rhetoric or one-sided criticism, then... what does that indicate about these viewers?
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:07 pm

If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Symmetry on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:12 pm

Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


Your sig is a gif of a comic book character from an action movie driving around in a taxi. Headlined "The Wet Nurse Rises".

Just thought I'd point that out.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:05 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
I just don't understand this kind of thing. Why would you focus on one group's lies and not the other group's lies? For example, Joe Biden indicated that he did not vote for either war, when he did. The vice president also indicated the $5 trillion tax cut in the Romney plan, which is completely misleading.

I thought Biden won the debate because he was way more assertive and in control. Biden had better one-liners. Ryan is too much of a figures guy. I also didn't like Ryan's cadence for some reason. He sounded like he was a 10 year old. The moderating was great.


I'm not speaking ill of you per say, but when we've been reduced to discussing the relative quality of a debate in terms of rhetoric or one-sided criticism, then... what does that indicate about these viewers?


Oh, I agree. I would prefer an actual debate, similar to what happens in interscholastic debates in high school. There is one issue (or two). One side speaks (8 minutes), the other side asks questions (3 minutes), the second side speaks (8 minutes), the first team asks questions (3 minutes), rebuttal time for each (5 minutes each), done. This would allow us to understand the issues and positions better than rhetoric, one-liners, and the flags on lapels.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Ray Rider on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:24 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


Your sig is a gif of a comic book character from an action movie driving around in a taxi. Headlined "The Wet Nurse Rises".

Just thought I'd point that out.

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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Symmetry on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:33 pm

Ray Rider wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


Your sig is a gif of a comic book character from an action movie driving around in a taxi. Headlined "The Wet Nurse Rises".

Just thought I'd point that out.

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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:44 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


Your sig is a gif of a comic book character from an action movie driving around in a taxi. Headlined "The Wet Nurse Rises".

Just thought I'd point that out.


Dodge King much?

A taxi huh? Playing Symmetry's little game, that means that since it's a Cop car and not a taxi, I win the debate and you are proven dead wrong!? :lol:

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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:54 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


Your sig is a gif of a comic book character from an action movie driving around in a taxi. Headlined "The Wet Nurse Rises".

Just thought I'd point that out.


Dodge King much?

A taxi huh? Playing Symmetry's little game, that means that since it's a Cop car and not a taxi, I win the debate and you are proven dead wrong!? :lol:

Please, judge me by the content of my character, and not by the picture at the bottom of my gaming profile


He can't. Sym's an avatarist.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:03 am

luns101 wrote:Most of the substance in this debate was trivialized or overshadowed by the stupid, condescending antics by Biden. Well that, and the constant interrupting. I thought Biden burned Ryan pretty well over requests for stimulus $$, and Ryan looked more competent on Afghanistan.


Are you kidding? Ryan looked completely retarded when it came to discussing Afghanistan. He argued that we should have put more Americans on the front line during the fighting season instead of replacing those Americans with the trained Afgahn security force. I can't believe it. Why would that be an argument at all? Why are we even training the Afgahns Ryan? Why?


Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


This is exactly what Romney did in the last debate, 27 lies in 35 minutes, and you praised him for it.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:05 am

luns101 wrote:Most of the substance in this debate was trivialized or overshadowed by the stupid, condescending antics by Biden. Well that, and the constant interrupting. I thought Biden burned Ryan pretty well over requests for stimulus $$, and Ryan looked more competent on Afghanistan.


Are you kidding? Ryan looked completely retarded when it came to discussing Afghanistan. He argued that we should have put more Americans on the front line during the fighting season instead of replacing those Americans with the trained Afgahn security force. I can't believe it. Why would that be an argument at all? Why are we even training the Afgahns Ryan? Why?

Ryan got burned a few times, IMHO. Particularly over Abortion.


Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


This is exactly what Romney did in the last debate, 27 lies in 35 minutes, and you praised him for it.
Last edited by Juan_Bottom on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Night Strike on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:10 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:This is exactly what Romney did in the last debate, 27 lies in 35 minutes, and you praised him for it.


What lies?
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:31 am

I made an inconsequential mistake there, because I was speaking from memory. The actual line, which was everywhere, was 27 lies in 38 minutes. You can google it, it's everywhere.

Some people are being stupidly polite and calling them "myths." But saying something that's not true is not what "Myth" means.
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