The Great Presidential Debate

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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:37 pm

I thought it was a good debate for both candidates, actually. I sort of felt sorry for the moderator. <grin>

Next time, let's get a couple of good candidates in there (<mumble>...Jill Stein...<grumble>...Gary Johnson).
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:39 pm

Mitt Romney wins.

Not even close
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:45 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Mitt Romney wins.

Not even close


A STUNNING statement coming from you. I'm so glad you could make a statement that held real thought.
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Bones2484 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:45 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Mitt Romney wins.

Not even close


Agreed, but only because Obama was terrible and clearly not prepared. Romney did a great job getting ready for this.

In saying that, Romney really needs to start giving some specifics on his plans if he wants a chance in this. I'm really getting tired of the "budget will be balanced" mantra without any details.
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:47 pm

One of my cadets tweeted (twitted?) that she was bothered that religion was discussed during the debate.

This confuses me, as I don't remember religion being discussed. I only remember Romney mentioning briefly about keeping religious freedom intact. Which didn't bother me in the slightest.

Was religion actually discussed and I missed it?
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Night Strike on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:49 pm

Woodruff wrote:One of my cadets tweeted (twitted?) that she was bothered that religion was discussed during the debate.

This confuses me, as I don't remember religion being discussed. I only remember Romney mentioning briefly about keeping religious freedom intact. Which didn't bother me in the slightest.

Was religion actually discussed and I missed it?


That was the only comment I remember.
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby muy_thaiguy on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:51 pm

Woodruff wrote:One of my cadets tweeted (twitted?) that she was bothered that religion was discussed during the debate.

This confuses me, as I don't remember religion being discussed. I only remember Romney mentioning briefly about keeping religious freedom intact. Which didn't bother me in the slightest.

Was religion actually discussed and I missed it?

Hell if I know, despite it being on right over the kitchen table, I have long since blocked out anything those two morons say whenever they come on TV (political ads or otherwise). My time is better spent stabbing my toes with toothpicks. That and my uncle and aunt out here would occasionally have an outburst at Obama about every other time he spoke. My uncle is private sector, but works with the naval airbase out here, so his job is directly connected to the military, so I can understand him being more than critical of someone who wants to downsize the military.
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What, you expected something deep or flashy?
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:54 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Woodruff wrote:One of my cadets tweeted (twitted?) that she was bothered that religion was discussed during the debate.

This confuses me, as I don't remember religion being discussed. I only remember Romney mentioning briefly about keeping religious freedom intact. Which didn't bother me in the slightest.

Was religion actually discussed and I missed it?

Hell if I know, despite it being on right over the kitchen table, I have long since blocked out anything those two morons say whenever they come on TV (political ads or otherwise). My time is better spent stabbing my toes with toothpicks. That and my uncle and aunt out here would occasionally have an outburst at Obama about every other time he spoke. My uncle is private sector, but works with the naval airbase out here, so his job is directly connected to the military, so I can understand him being more than critical of someone who wants to downsize the military.


You oughta stay out there for Top Gun. It's quite a show. We used to take some of our cadets out there for it.
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby patrickaa317 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:55 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Mitt Romney wins.

Not even close


Agreed, but only because Obama was terrible and clearly not prepared. Romney did a great job getting ready for this.

In saying that, Romney really needs to start giving some specifics on his plans if he wants a chance in this. I'm really getting tired of the "budget will be balanced" mantra without any details.


Pretty sure he said he'd cut Obamacare and stop funding PBS; combine government agencies and reduce public employment through attrition. Those are a few pieces in balancing the budget though there is still a lot more that needs to happen.
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby muy_thaiguy on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:56 pm

Woodruff wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:
Woodruff wrote:One of my cadets tweeted (twitted?) that she was bothered that religion was discussed during the debate.

This confuses me, as I don't remember religion being discussed. I only remember Romney mentioning briefly about keeping religious freedom intact. Which didn't bother me in the slightest.

Was religion actually discussed and I missed it?

Hell if I know, despite it being on right over the kitchen table, I have long since blocked out anything those two morons say whenever they come on TV (political ads or otherwise). My time is better spent stabbing my toes with toothpicks. That and my uncle and aunt out here would occasionally have an outburst at Obama about every other time he spoke. My uncle is private sector, but works with the naval airbase out here, so his job is directly connected to the military, so I can understand him being more than critical of someone who wants to downsize the military.


You oughta stay out there for Top Gun. It's quite a show. We used to take some of our cadets out there for it.

Well, Saturday I'm heading to Reno for the Wyoming/UNR game, Sunday coming back to Fallon after a stop by Lake Tahoe, and then Tuesday I begin the 1000 mile ride home.
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby MegaProphet on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:01 pm

Woodruff wrote:I thought it was a good debate for both candidates, actually. I sort of felt sorry for the moderator. <grin>

Next time, let's get a couple of good candidates in there (<mumble>...Jill Stein...<grumble>...Gary Johnson).

Agreed, I'm thinking about voting Jill Stein since I found out I have to vote in WY instead of CO.

I didn't think much of this debate, but it should be interesting to see how the rest of them go
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:03 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Mitt Romney wins.

Not even close


Agreed, but only because Obama was terrible and clearly not prepared. Romney did a great job getting ready for this.

In saying that, Romney really needs to start giving some specifics on his plans if he wants a chance in this. I'm really getting tired of the "budget will be balanced" mantra without any details.


Agreed also. I wish Romney would make the point that presidential candidates should not be making certain promises that will depend on an unknown future Congress's cooperation and legislation and how the executive and the legislative branch will work together.

I too want specifics, but I do not want to hear more empty promises that their position is not able to execute on it's own, or by executive order or signing statements alone...
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby General Brock II on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:09 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Mitt Romney wins.

Not even close


Agreed, but only because Obama was terrible and clearly not prepared. Romney did a great job getting ready for this.

In saying that, Romney really needs to start giving some specifics on his plans if he wants a chance in this. I'm really getting tired of the "budget will be balanced" mantra without any details.


Pretty sure he said he'd cut Obamacare and stop funding PBS; combine government agencies and reduce public employment through attrition. Those are a few pieces in balancing the budget though there is still a lot more that needs to happen.


He did mention the above, indeed. All grand moves, and he also asserted that healthcare and social services would be returned, largely, to the State to administer. Loved his rhetoric, and I know it's what won elections in times gone by.

Obama looked a little reserved and shaky, I think. He sounded like a squeaky, repetitive wheel, to start, and only gradually improved.

Religion? Only in reference to the Constitution and brief comments of faith. Nothing to be in arms about, for certain.
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:10 pm

My favorite part is the Randy Jackson comment at the end:
http://imgur.com/mDrvt
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:12 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Mitt Romney wins.

Not even close


Agreed, but only because Obama was terrible and clearly not prepared. Romney did a great job getting ready for this.

In saying that, Romney really needs to start giving some specifics on his plans if he wants a chance in this. I'm really getting tired of the "budget will be balanced" mantra without any details.


Agreed also. I wish Romney would make the point that presidential candidates should not be making certain promises that will depend on an unknown future Congress's cooperation and legislation and how the executive and the legislative branch will work together.


Don't all Presidential candidates have to do that?

Phatscotty wrote:I too want specifics, but I do not want to hear more empty promises that their position is not able to execute on it's own, or by executive order or signing statements alone...


Gary Johnson has specifics!
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:15 pm

Romney definitely won, IMO. Not by a lot but it seemed pretty clear.
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:36 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Romney definitely won, IMO. Not by a lot but it seemed pretty clear.



Hell, even Van Jones and Bill Maher agree that Mitt Romney won.
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:47 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Romney definitely won, IMO. Not by a lot but it seemed pretty clear.


Woodruff wrote:A STUNNING statement coming from you. I'm so glad you could make a statement that held real thought.


Hell, even Van Jones and Bill Maher agree that Mitt Romney won.


That doesn't at all change my point.
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Neoteny on Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:26 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Romney definitely won, IMO. Not by a lot but it seemed pretty clear.


This. He was a complete dick too. Whether that will help him is to be seen.
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:32 pm

Neoteny wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Romney definitely won, IMO. Not by a lot but it seemed pretty clear.


This. He was a complete dick too. Whether that will help him is to be seen.


Lehrer was a dick to Romney, it' okay for him to be a dick back.

On the other hand, did you catch Obama literally winking at Lehrer a couple times?
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Neoteny on Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:41 pm

Romney was steamrolling Lehrer from the start. I wouldn't necessarily call ol' Jimmy impartial, but he's not running for president, is he?

You grumpy that Obama was getting flirty on national TV? OR IS IT A LIBRUL CONSPIRACY
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:07 am

Neoteny wrote:Romney was steamrolling Lehrer from the start. I wouldn't necessarily call ol' Jimmy impartial, but he's not running for president, is he?

You grumpy that Obama was getting flirty on national TV? OR IS IT A LIBRUL CONSPIRACY


it was 2 on 1, and Romney still won. Why would I be grumpy?

Want to see grumpy? viewtopic.php?f=8&t=179207
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:17 am

"ROMNEY WON THE DEBATE BECAUSE OF CITIZENS UNITED."

first
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby Neoteny on Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:32 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Neoteny wrote:Romney was steamrolling Lehrer from the start. I wouldn't necessarily call ol' Jimmy impartial, but he's not running for president, is he?

You grumpy that Obama was getting flirty on national TV? OR IS IT A LIBRUL CONSPIRACY


it was 2 on 1, and Romney still won. Why would I be grumpy?

Want to see grumpy? viewtopic.php?f=8&t=179207


It's not two on one when the moderator is pushing for clarifications, nor is it two on one when one of the candidates winks at the moderator while saying "We're pretty much going to keep ignoring you."
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Re: THE GREAT DEBATE!

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:47 am

I did not watch the debate. Instead, I read the transcript this morning. I think Romney definitively "won" if anyone can win one of these types of things; I mostly think that because I thought he would be horrendous and Obama is a wonderful speaker.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/03/politics/ ... index.html

I thought it was interesting that the president did not know Romney's plans (or else purposefully stated them incorrectly). I wonder if that was a product of, generally, the challenger not revealing plans prior to this type of debate. For example, right at the beginning the president accused Romney of wanting a $5 trillion tax cut for the wealthy. Romney's response, I thought, was really well done:

Mittens wrote:First of all, I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut. I don't have a tax cut of a scale that you're talking about. My view is that we ought to provide tax relief to people in the middle class. But I'm not going to reduce the share of taxes paid by high-income people. High-income people are doing just fine in this economy. They'll do fine whether you're president or I am.


I like this a lot. Rhetoric, yes, but it was pretty good stuff.

Romney's tax plan is also pretty interesting and something I don't think I've ever heard from Republicans:

Mittens wrote:The second area, taxation, we agree, we ought to bring the tax rates down. And I do, both for corporations and for individuals. But in order for us not to lose revenue, have the government run out of money, I also lower deductions and credits and exemptions, so that we keep taking in the same money when you also account for growth.


Basically eliminating deductions, credits and exemptions will do a number of things I've been (politically, but not professionally) in favor of for a while. Those types of things tend to benefit the wealthy and certain companies over other companies.

I did not like the rhetoric of this statement:

Mittens wrote:What things would I cut from spending? Well, first of all, I will eliminate all programs by this test, if they don't pass it: Is the program so critical it's worth borrowing money from China to pay for it? And if not, I'll get rid of it.


What does that even mean? It means he's going to cut the stuff he wants to cut and keep "borrowing money from China" to pay for the stuff he wants to keep. So annoying.

Barack HUSSEIN Obama wrote:Now, we all know that we've got to do more. And so I've put forward a specific $4 trillion deficit reduction plan. It's on a website. You can look at all the numbers, what cuts we make and what revenue we raise.


I need to get to this website.

The oil industry gets $4 billion a year in corporate welfare. Basically, they get deductions that those small businesses that Governor Romney refers to, they don't get.

Barack HUSSEIN Obama wrote:Now, does anybody think that ExxonMobil needs some extra money, when they're making money every time you go to the pump? Why wouldn't we want to eliminate that? Why wouldn't we eliminate tax breaks for corporate jets? My attitude is, if you got a corporate jet, you can probably afford to pay full freight, not get a special break for it.


I can get behind these types of things, except the president just wants to take those tax breaks and give them to other companies that support him. The same with Romney. It's not an overall increase in revenue when you're giving tax breaks to solar companies (in Obama's case) or coal companies (in Romney's case).

So Romney calls Obama out on it:

Mittens wrote:to oil, to tax breaks, then companies going overseas. So let's go through them one by one. First of all, the Department of Energy has said the tax break for oil companies is $2.8 billion a year. And it's actually an accounting treatment, as you know, that's been in place for a hundred years. Now...


Barack HUSSEIN Obama wrote:It's time to end it.


Mittens wrote:And in one year, you provided $90 billion in breaks to the green energy world. Now, I like green energy as well, but that's about 50 years' worth of what oil and gas receives. And you say Exxon and Mobil. Actually, this $2.8 billion goes largely to small companies, to drilling operators and so forth.


Good job on Romney.

After the tax debate there was all this rhetoric on seniors and Medicare/Medicaid and social security which just pissed me off. Talk about pandering.

I like this too:

Mittens wrote:Dodd-Frank was passed. And it includes within it a number of provisions that I think has some unintended consequences that are harmful to the economy. One is it designates a number of banks as too big to fail, and they're effectively guaranteed by the federal government. This is the biggest kiss that's been given to -- to New York banks I've ever seen. This is an enormous boon for them. There've been 122 community and small banks have closed since Dodd- Frank.


It basically calls out Dodd-Frank for the stuff I've been saying for the past few months.

And the president's response was merely "Romney wants to repeal Dodd-Frank." That's not what Romney said he wants to do. He wants to repeal Dodd-Frank and then replace it. I don't believe Romney, but, well, he said it and the president ignored it.
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