The Great Presidential Debate

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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Symmetry on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:12 pm

Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


Your sig is a gif of a comic book character from an action movie driving around in a taxi. Headlined "The Wet Nurse Rises".

Just thought I'd point that out.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:05 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
I just don't understand this kind of thing. Why would you focus on one group's lies and not the other group's lies? For example, Joe Biden indicated that he did not vote for either war, when he did. The vice president also indicated the $5 trillion tax cut in the Romney plan, which is completely misleading.

I thought Biden won the debate because he was way more assertive and in control. Biden had better one-liners. Ryan is too much of a figures guy. I also didn't like Ryan's cadence for some reason. He sounded like he was a 10 year old. The moderating was great.


I'm not speaking ill of you per say, but when we've been reduced to discussing the relative quality of a debate in terms of rhetoric or one-sided criticism, then... what does that indicate about these viewers?


Oh, I agree. I would prefer an actual debate, similar to what happens in interscholastic debates in high school. There is one issue (or two). One side speaks (8 minutes), the other side asks questions (3 minutes), the second side speaks (8 minutes), the first team asks questions (3 minutes), rebuttal time for each (5 minutes each), done. This would allow us to understand the issues and positions better than rhetoric, one-liners, and the flags on lapels.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Ray Rider on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:24 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


Your sig is a gif of a comic book character from an action movie driving around in a taxi. Headlined "The Wet Nurse Rises".

Just thought I'd point that out.

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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Symmetry on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:33 pm

Ray Rider wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


Your sig is a gif of a comic book character from an action movie driving around in a taxi. Headlined "The Wet Nurse Rises".

Just thought I'd point that out.

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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:44 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


Your sig is a gif of a comic book character from an action movie driving around in a taxi. Headlined "The Wet Nurse Rises".

Just thought I'd point that out.


Dodge King much?

A taxi huh? Playing Symmetry's little game, that means that since it's a Cop car and not a taxi, I win the debate and you are proven dead wrong!? :lol:

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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:54 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


Your sig is a gif of a comic book character from an action movie driving around in a taxi. Headlined "The Wet Nurse Rises".

Just thought I'd point that out.


Dodge King much?

A taxi huh? Playing Symmetry's little game, that means that since it's a Cop car and not a taxi, I win the debate and you are proven dead wrong!? :lol:

Please, judge me by the content of my character, and not by the picture at the bottom of my gaming profile


He can't. Sym's an avatarist.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:03 am

luns101 wrote:Most of the substance in this debate was trivialized or overshadowed by the stupid, condescending antics by Biden. Well that, and the constant interrupting. I thought Biden burned Ryan pretty well over requests for stimulus $$, and Ryan looked more competent on Afghanistan.


Are you kidding? Ryan looked completely retarded when it came to discussing Afghanistan. He argued that we should have put more Americans on the front line during the fighting season instead of replacing those Americans with the trained Afgahn security force. I can't believe it. Why would that be an argument at all? Why are we even training the Afgahns Ryan? Why?


Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


This is exactly what Romney did in the last debate, 27 lies in 35 minutes, and you praised him for it.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:05 am

luns101 wrote:Most of the substance in this debate was trivialized or overshadowed by the stupid, condescending antics by Biden. Well that, and the constant interrupting. I thought Biden burned Ryan pretty well over requests for stimulus $$, and Ryan looked more competent on Afghanistan.


Are you kidding? Ryan looked completely retarded when it came to discussing Afghanistan. He argued that we should have put more Americans on the front line during the fighting season instead of replacing those Americans with the trained Afgahn security force. I can't believe it. Why would that be an argument at all? Why are we even training the Afgahns Ryan? Why?

Ryan got burned a few times, IMHO. Particularly over Abortion.


Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


This is exactly what Romney did in the last debate, 27 lies in 35 minutes, and you praised him for it.
Last edited by Juan_Bottom on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Night Strike on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:10 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:This is exactly what Romney did in the last debate, 27 lies in 35 minutes, and you praised him for it.


What lies?
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:31 am

I made an inconsequential mistake there, because I was speaking from memory. The actual line, which was everywhere, was 27 lies in 38 minutes. You can google it, it's everywhere.

Some people are being stupidly polite and calling them "myths." But saying something that's not true is not what "Myth" means.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby Night Strike on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:01 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:I made an inconsequential mistake there, because I was speaking from memory. The actual line, which was everywhere, was 27 lies in 38 minutes. You can google it, it's everywhere.

Some people are being stupidly polite and calling them "myths." But saying something that's not true is not what "Myth" means.


So what statements were lies?
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:09 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
luns101 wrote:Most of the substance in this debate was trivialized or overshadowed by the stupid, condescending antics by Biden. Well that, and the constant interrupting. I thought Biden burned Ryan pretty well over requests for stimulus $$, and Ryan looked more competent on Afghanistan.


Are you kidding? Ryan looked completely retarded when it came to discussing Afghanistan. He argued that we should have put more Americans on the front line during the fighting season instead of replacing those Americans with the trained Afgahn security force. I can't believe it. Why would that be an argument at all? Why are we even training the Afgahns Ryan? Why?


Phatscotty wrote:If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.


This is exactly what Romney did in the last debate, 27 lies in 35 minutes, and you praised him for it.


Saying Biden did the same thing Romney did is a stretch. I mean, sure it's in the ballpark that both of them tried to take the upper hand and be in control, but Romney did it with class and style, Biden did it by acting like a child and lookin like a clown.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:33 pm

Yeah, that's not partisan politics at all.

Yeah, no; It's a very niche-oriented point of view.

Romney, your guy, interrupted and told 27 lies in 38 minutes. He lied the whole time. Yet you support him.
Biden, my man, interrupted and scoffed at a liar.

When in our history did we decide that as a nation, we need to be respectful to someone who's lying to our face? Because I'll tell you that the politicians who founded this country did indeed scoff, jeer, smirk, hiss, and boo anyone they knew to be lying. You want to talk about class and style, how about having the class to not go on national television to lie to us with the grace of a used-car salesman.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:37 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:Yeah, that's not partisan politics at all.

Yeah, no; It's a very niche-oriented point of view.

Romney, your guy, interrupted and told 27 lies in 38 minutes. He lied the whole time. Yet you support him.
Biden, my man, interrupted and scoffed at a liar.

When in our history did we decide that as a nation, we need to be respectful to someone who's lying to our face? Because I'll tell you that the politicians who founded this country did indeed scoff, jeer, smirk, hiss, and boo anyone they knew to be lying. You want to talk about class and style, how about having the class to not go on national television to lie to us with the grace of a used-car salesman.


They all lie. Does that mean, by your own logic, you won't be voting?
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:41 pm

That's not logic Phatscotty. I never said any of what you're implying.

Not everyone lies Phatscotty.
You can see above where I got an unimportant fact a little befuddled (38 minutes), but that happens when you are drawing on your own memory. It's understandable to anyone. But on the other hand Romney told a lie every 90 seconds. That's not getting the facts mixed up a little bit, that's believing that the facts are irrelevant to your argument. And you know what? Romney is right. The facts are irrelevant. You've thrown your support for his reassuring lies.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby Night Strike on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:48 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:Romney, your guy, interrupted and told 27 lies in 38 minutes. He lied the whole time. Yet you support him.
Biden, my man, interrupted and scoffed at a liar.


What lies did Romney tell? You still haven't shared them.

And we know Biden was an extremely rude liar in his "debate". He made over 80 interruptions and told some whopper of lies such as not knowing the Benghazi consulate had requested additional security.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:03 pm

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Biden saying he voted against the wars, and building his BS case that the wars are the cause of the recession, but not real estate or 100 other things, when he actually did vote for the wars..... I don't see how anyone can makes a case against Romney for lying.

I'm not saying every single word Romney said was true, or that me or anyone else could possibly know or not, but I am saying Biden's lies are so HUGE and OBVIOUS and CRAZY, Biden's lies suck all the oxygen out of the room

BOOM!
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby MeDeFe on Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:16 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Romney, your guy, interrupted and told 27 lies in 38 minutes. He lied the whole time. Yet you support him.
Biden, my man, interrupted and scoffed at a liar.

What lies did Romney tell? You still haven't shared them.

It took me all of 10 seconds to find a list of them.

show


If you want the links so you can check out their sources for the repudiations, go here: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/10/04/958801/at-last-nights-debate-romney-told-27-myths-in-38-minutes/
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:34 pm

Think Progress? hehe

I suppose this is where someone posts a FOX news segment right?

Incredible bias vs incredible bias is what we already have and do not need anymore of
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby Night Strike on Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:44 pm

Because thinkprogress.org is unbiased? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Basically every single one of those tax claims by Obama have already been proven false, even by Obama's own campaign people. The $5 trillion number assumes that exactly zero dollars of deductions are removed from the system, and raising rates on the middle class also assumes that scenario takes place. Both claims have been refuted by the people who put out the original study. Furthermore, this idea that tax cuts add to the deficit and must be offset is ludicrous. Only spending is supposed to be offset as only spending adds to the deficit. Cut federal spending to decrease the deficit and flatten the tax code to increase revenues to the federal government.

Drilling has basically stayed flat under Obama, with the only increases coming in improved yields instead of any actual new drilling on federal lands. Increases have only come from private lands because the administration has blocked new drilling on federal lands.

This claim by your "factchecker" has already been proven as absolutely ludicrous: "There’s that number again. Romney is claiming that Obamacare siphons off $716 billion from Medicare, to the detriment of beneficiaries. In actuality, that money is saved primarily through reducing over-payments to insurance companies under Medicare Advantage, not payments to beneficiaries. Paul Ryan’s budget plan keeps those same cuts, but directs them toward tax cuts for the rich and deficit reduction."

How are there overpayments under Medicare when there have to be doctor-fix bills passed to make sure doctors get enough money from treating Medicare patients? Furthermore, how will beneficiaries be completely unharmed when doctors and hospitals get less money for the work they do? All those doctors will simply keep seeing those patients and providing those treatments without adequate compensation? If you believe that, I have some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you. By the way, I've also disproven the "attack" on Paul Ryan's plan keeping those cuts: he has to either specifically change any spending laws that have already been passed or assume that they will be in effect when he writes a new budget. That doesn't assume he wants those cuts to take place.

Pretty much everything else is simple disagreements with plans instead of "correcting" things that are "lies".
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby comic boy on Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:58 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Think Progress? hehe

I suppose this is where someone posts a FOX news segment right?

Incredible bias vs incredible bias is what we already have and do not need anymore of


You want to erradicate incredible bias , simple , first you stop posting then second you get NS to do the same.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby Ray Rider on Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:29 am

You're all looking pretty ridiculous by pointing out the half-truths, twisted facts, and lies spoken by the leader of the opposing camp while doing your best to pretend your favourite politician never does the same.

And Comicboy, it doesn't help to tell people to shut up who disagree with you. That might've worked in kindergarten, but we're all adults here and if your position can't stand up when faced with an opposing viewpoint, it's probly time for you to rethink your position.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby thegreekdog on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:16 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:Yeah, that's not partisan politics at all.

Yeah, no; It's a very niche-oriented point of view.

Romney, your guy, interrupted and told 27 lies in 38 minutes. He lied the whole time. Yet you support him.
Biden, my man, interrupted and scoffed at a liar.

When in our history did we decide that as a nation, we need to be respectful to someone who's lying to our face? Because I'll tell you that the politicians who founded this country did indeed scoff, jeer, smirk, hiss, and boo anyone they knew to be lying. You want to talk about class and style, how about having the class to not go on national television to lie to us with the grace of a used-car salesman.


Since you're not being partisan, how many times did Joe Biden lie?
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby comic boy on Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:48 am

Ray Rider wrote:You're all looking pretty ridiculous by pointing out the half-truths, twisted facts, and lies spoken by the leader of the opposing camp while doing your best to pretend your favourite politician never does the same.

And Comicboy, it doesn't help to tell people to shut up who disagree with you. That might've worked in kindergarten, but we're all adults here and if your position can't stand up when faced with an opposing viewpoint, it's probly time for you to rethink your position.


Ray I agree with your first point which is why I haven't been involved in this pissing contest, sort of makes your second point a tad odd though. Of course you have a perfect right to pretend I told somebody to shut up , to pretend that highlighting hypocrisy equates to childish name calling , or you could even rein in your own bias and follow your own advice :D
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:29 am

thegreekdog wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Yeah, that's not partisan politics at all.

Yeah, no; It's a very niche-oriented point of view.

Romney, your guy, interrupted and told 27 lies in 38 minutes. He lied the whole time. Yet you support him.
Biden, my man, interrupted and scoffed at a liar.

When in our history did we decide that as a nation, we need to be respectful to someone who's lying to our face? Because I'll tell you that the politicians who founded this country did indeed scoff, jeer, smirk, hiss, and boo anyone they knew to be lying. You want to talk about class and style, how about having the class to not go on national television to lie to us with the grace of a used-car salesman.


Since you're not being partisan, how many times did Joe Biden lie?


I'll happily go on record as saying that I only counted 1 TIME that Biden did not tell the truth. And when I went back over Fact-Check.org's recap of the debate, I wasn't so sure Biden didn't just misinterpret purposely it to make a point to Ryan. However, Ryan's name is all over that fact-check sheet for lying, or getting his sh*t wrong.
http://factcheck.org/2012/10/veep-debate-violations/
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