Are Iranian sanctions working?

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Are Iranian sanctions working

Yes
4
33%
Yes, but not enough yet
1
8%
I'm not sure
1
8%
No, but they're having some effect
1
8%
No- the tactic is innefectual
4
33%
Kittens are cute
1
8%
 
Total votes : 12

Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby fadedpsychosis on Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:41 pm

Symmetry wrote:
fadedpsychosis wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:If the "State of Israel" doesn't want to be crushed like a cockroach, it should stop acting like a pest.


A statement with a troubling history.

the history of that entire region is troubled...


Ah, but Saxi was employing a few nasty historical anti-semitic themes with that. Jewish people as pests and cockroaches. His opposition to the Israeli position on Iran seems to indicate something darker.

If he's being serious, that's troubling.

If he's not, I don't think he should be flirting with it.

hmm... good point, and one I didn't think of immediately
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:46 pm

Symmetry wrote:
fadedpsychosis wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:If the "State of Israel" doesn't want to be crushed like a cockroach, it should stop acting like a pest.


A statement with a troubling history.

the history of that entire region is troubled...


Ah, but Saxi was employing a few nasty historical anti-semitic themes with that. Jewish people as pests and cockroaches. His opposition to the Israeli position on Iran seems to indicate something darker.

If he's being serious, that's troubling.

If he's not, I don't think he should be flirting with it.


lmao

anyway, here's an Assad/Qaddafi fanboy video

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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby Symmetry on Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:53 pm

fadedpsychosis wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
fadedpsychosis wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:If the "State of Israel" doesn't want to be crushed like a cockroach, it should stop acting like a pest.


A statement with a troubling history.

the history of that entire region is troubled...


Ah, but Saxi was employing a few nasty historical anti-semitic themes with that. Jewish people as pests and cockroaches. His opposition to the Israeli position on Iran seems to indicate something darker.

If he's being serious, that's troubling.

If he's not, I don't think he should be flirting with it.

hmm... good point, and one I didn't think of immediately


No problem. He's too smart not to know what he was doing.
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby fadedpsychosis on Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:58 pm

Symmetry wrote:
fadedpsychosis wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
fadedpsychosis wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:If the "State of Israel" doesn't want to be crushed like a cockroach, it should stop acting like a pest.


A statement with a troubling history.

the history of that entire region is troubled...


Ah, but Saxi was employing a few nasty historical anti-semitic themes with that. Jewish people as pests and cockroaches. His opposition to the Israeli position on Iran seems to indicate something darker.

If he's being serious, that's troubling.

If he's not, I don't think he should be flirting with it.

hmm... good point, and one I didn't think of immediately


No problem. He's too smart not to know what he was doing.

in my defense, I do know a decent bit about the history of that area, and someone like saxi saying what he did is rather mild compared to things others have said and done to the area and its inhabitants...
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby Symmetry on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:09 pm

That's fair to say Fpsy. 'twasn't meant as an attack on your comments, so no defense necessary. I've been around a fair few people from the region too.

Smile and nod on, is my usual take.

Saying that Israelis are pests and cockroaches that need to be stamped out stuff is kind of one of my limits here though.
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:11 pm

Speaking of Jewish history, two important events happened last week:

    - October 2, 1187: After capturing Jerusalem, Sultan Saladin the Great orders the return of all Jewish property previously confiscated by the crusaders.

    - October 5, 1450: Jews expelled from Bavaria
It's culturally insensitive for Europeans to frame anti-Semitism inside the bookends of their own experience. The history of the rest of the world isn't necessarily as terrible.
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby fadedpsychosis on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:14 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Speaking of Jewish history, two important events happened last week:

    - October 2, 1187: After capturing Jerusalem, Sultan Saladin the Great orders the return of all Jewish property previously confiscated by the crusaders.

    - October 5, 1450: Jews expelled from Bavaria
It's culturally insensitive for Europeans to frame anti-Semitism inside the bookends of their own experience. The history of the rest of the world isn't necessarily as terrible.

*rolls eyes* saxi, the history just about EVERYWHERE is terrible! humankind has been doing evil things to itself across the globe since before recorded history even began, and will continue to do so until the end of it...
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby Symmetry on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:30 pm

I suppose I'll go with a non-western source for the update:

Iran imposes currency cap to boost rial

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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby rhp 1 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:33 pm

Johnny Rockets wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:That depends on the goal. If the goal is to cripple and humilite a sovereign state, maintain a nuclear balance of power where only Israel can threaten its neighbors wih atomic attack, establish the equivalent of an illegal trade blockade, drive up the global price of oil and subjugate another country to IMF colonization, then yes. They appear to be working.


I agree.

However keep in mind that the shit house rat crazy level of leadership in that country helps the argument to subject that country to capitalist machinations. Has Israel even threatened to nuke Iran in any other context that retaliation of attack? Iran has threatened to wipe Israel off the map, so if I have to trust one or the other to hold the neutrons it wouldn't be too hard of a decision.
(Not that I'm a big fan of either team on the field.)

The problem with economic sanctions is that they hurt the commoner, not anyone in the ruling class.
The purpose is to cause grass roots unrest until you have a situation where the leadership capitulates to prevent local uprising. This of course can backfire when the government just goes the Syria route and slaughters all of those who have the nerve to be vocal about their starving children/failed business/eroding medical capabilities, ect....

Fucking Americans and their gunboat diplomacy planted the seeds that brought us to this, I predict military conflict on the ground in Iran in less than 24 months.



jrock



I love that last line... makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.... nice one!
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:45 pm


The US government has said sanctions relief could quickly occur if Tehran curbed its disputed nuclear programme, which Western countries suspect is cover to develop a nuclear weapons capability.

Iran's leaders, who insist their atomic programme is exclusively peaceful in nature, have vowed never to yield to the pressure.


The lapdogging of Al-Jazeera simply reinforces the pro-western bloviations of the rapist crackhead who runs Qatar.

In his September lecture to the Commonwealth Club of California, the Islamic Republic's former nuclear negotiator Seyed Hossein Mousavian, points out that it was actually the west that forced Iran to enrich uranium to the 20% level in order to save people with cancer (unreported by western or pseudo-western media). In other words, anyone who supports sanctions on Iran basically wants cancer patients to die.

Full Video:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/IransNuclearProgram2

Pertinent Quote:

In February 2010, the head of the Iranian Atomic Energy Organization proposed that the P5+1 [China, Russia, US, Britain, France and Germany] provide fuel rods for the Tehran research reactor, which is a reactor that was built by Americans and is used for medical isotopes for 800,000 patients struggling with cancer. They need fuel rods to continue to run this nuclear facility. Iranians proposed that we would not increase the level of enrichment beyond 5% if P5+1 would provide the fuel rods. In order to build the fuel rods, you need at least 20% enrichment. This was Iran’s proposal that we would keep enrichment below 5%. We don’t want to have high level enrichment. We don’t want to enrich 20%. Instead, give us the fuel rods. But the Western countries declined.

Iran had no other option but to increase the level of enrichment to 20%. Now people say that because we enriched up to 20%, we must want to build a nuclear bomb. This is the story you read everywhere in the media. But they don’t tell you the truth. In September 2011, the Iranian foreign minister and president came to New York for the United Nations assembly, and they made a proposal to the U.S. and the West. They said, ‘Now that we have 20%, we are ready to stop. We are ready to go back to 3.5% if you provide us with the fuel rods, because about a million patients with cancer need it.’ The U.S. declined.

It was the Iranian proposal to stop enriching at 20% and go back to below 5%. As long as enrichment is below 5%, there is no danger of any nuclear weapon at all. Everybody knows this. But because the U.S. refused our proposal, Iran had to build its own fuel rods to run this American-made Tehran medical research reactor.
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby Symmetry on Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:56 pm

saxitoxin wrote:

The US government has said sanctions relief could quickly occur if Tehran curbed its disputed nuclear programme, which Western countries suspect is cover to develop a nuclear weapons capability.

Iran's leaders, who insist their atomic programme is exclusively peaceful in nature, have vowed never to yield to the pressure.


Kind of the point of the thread, no?

Is the pressure working?
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:57 pm

Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:

The US government has said sanctions relief could quickly occur if Tehran curbed its disputed nuclear programme, which Western countries suspect is cover to develop a nuclear weapons capability.

Iran's leaders, who insist their atomic programme is exclusively peaceful in nature, have vowed never to yield to the pressure.


Kind of the point of the thread, no?


Uh ... that was your quote.

Anyway, why do you hate Iranian cancer patients?
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby Symmetry on Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:42 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:

The US government has said sanctions relief could quickly occur if Tehran curbed its disputed nuclear programme, which Western countries suspect is cover to develop a nuclear weapons capability.

Iran's leaders, who insist their atomic programme is exclusively peaceful in nature, have vowed never to yield to the pressure.


Kind of the point of the thread, no?


Uh ... that was your quote.

Anyway, why do you hate Iranian cancer patients?


It was a quote from an article I posted, but no- not a quote from me.
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby fadedpsychosis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:05 pm

Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:

The US government has said sanctions relief could quickly occur if Tehran curbed its disputed nuclear programme, which Western countries suspect is cover to develop a nuclear weapons capability.

Iran's leaders, who insist their atomic programme is exclusively peaceful in nature, have vowed never to yield to the pressure.


Kind of the point of the thread, no?


Uh ... that was your quote.

Anyway, why do you hate Iranian cancer patients?


It was a quote from an article I posted, but no- not a quote from me.

splitting hairs there sym... careful not to make them asymmetric
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby Symmetry on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:09 pm

fadedpsychosis wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:

The US government has said sanctions relief could quickly occur if Tehran curbed its disputed nuclear programme, which Western countries suspect is cover to develop a nuclear weapons capability.

Iran's leaders, who insist their atomic programme is exclusively peaceful in nature, have vowed never to yield to the pressure.


Kind of the point of the thread, no?


Uh ... that was your quote.

Anyway, why do you hate Iranian cancer patients?


It was a quote from an article I posted, but no- not a quote from me.

splitting hairs there sym... careful not to make them asymmetric


Difficult not to split hairs in a response to such a loaded question.

"Why do you hate Iranian cancer patients?"

Seriously?

How would you have responded?
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby fadedpsychosis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:11 pm

Symmetry wrote:Difficult not to split hairs in a response to such a loaded question.

"Why do you hate Iranian cancer patients?"

Seriously?

How would you have responded?

I'm military, I'm not allowed to have an opinion on iranians
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby saxitoxin on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:12 pm

Symmetry wrote:
fadedpsychosis wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
It was a quote from an article I posted, but no- not a quote from me.

splitting hairs there sym... careful not to make them asymmetric


Difficult not to split hairs in a response to such a loaded question.

"Why do you hate Iranian cancer patients?"

Seriously?

How would you have responded?


That's a loaded question. FP never said he hates Iranian cancer patients.
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby Symmetry on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:18 pm

fadedpsychosis wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Difficult not to split hairs in a response to such a loaded question.

"Why do you hate Iranian cancer patients?"

Seriously?

How would you have responded?

I'm military, I'm not allowed to have an opinion on iranians


Fair enough, I did my level best to respond to Saxi's determined efforts to derail the thread, and keep things on topic. He ain't a big fan of Israel or Britain.
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:43 pm

So how does one deal with the unintended consequences of curbing Iran's ability to treat cancer patients?

Shall this be ignored? Shall the facts be disputed?
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby fadedpsychosis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:50 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:So how does one deal with the unintended consequences of curbing Iran's ability to treat cancer patients?

Shall this be ignored? Shall the facts be disputed?

are you saying uranium enrichment is the only way of getting cancer treatment in iran? what about other, non nuclear based treatment options? what about weapons grade enriched nuclear material? are you saying they need that too? wouldn't that be counter productive, considering weapons grade uranium is more likely to cause cancer that treat it?
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:00 pm

fadedpsychosis wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:So how does one deal with the unintended consequences of curbing Iran's ability to treat cancer patients?

Shall this be ignored? Shall the facts be disputed?

are you saying uranium enrichment is the only way of getting cancer treatment in iran? what about other, non nuclear based treatment options? what about weapons grade enriched nuclear material? are you saying they need that too? wouldn't that be counter productive, considering weapons grade uranium is more likely to cause cancer that treat it?



Saxi posted some great rhetoric, which in my opinion seems worthy of being addressed; however, I have no idea how cancer treatment and enriching uranium are related.
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby saxitoxin on Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:10 pm

fadedpsychosis wrote:are you saying uranium enrichment is the only way of getting cancer treatment in iran? what about other, non nuclear based treatment options?


You don't NEED anaesthesia to amputate someone's leg. You could do it 1860s style and have them drink a fifth of whiskey first. Iranians should have to settle for something less than the full range of modern treatment options just so some religious fanatics in Tel Aviv don't kvetsh?

fadedpsychosis wrote:what about weapons grade enriched nuclear material? are you saying they need that too?


Yes, from my post above, to produce medical isotopes, Iran needs fuel rods to run their US-built nuclear reactor. To build fuel rods, you need to enrich uranium to the 20% level, which is the same level of enrichment used in nuclear weapons. Iran requested the west sell them rods so they wouldn't have to enrich uranium to weapons-grade levels. The west refused, meaning Iran's only option to continue to run their Cancer Reactor was to enrich it themselves. This is how the west engineers Wars/IMF Colonization.
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby fadedpsychosis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:24 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
fadedpsychosis wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:So how does one deal with the unintended consequences of curbing Iran's ability to treat cancer patients?

Shall this be ignored? Shall the facts be disputed?

are you saying uranium enrichment is the only way of getting cancer treatment in iran? what about other, non nuclear based treatment options? what about weapons grade enriched nuclear material? are you saying they need that too? wouldn't that be counter productive, considering weapons grade uranium is more likely to cause cancer that treat it?



Saxi posted some great rhetoric, which in my opinion seems worthy of being addressed; however, I have no idea how cancer treatment and enriching uranium are related.

I have gone back and read it closer, and even though in research reactors you do typically see higher levels of enrichment the US at least has moved to change the fuel from HEU to LEU (higher to lower grade)... the US policy makers in this case may want iran to do the same process to the reactor in question rather than just give them high enriched uranium... but I'm not a policy maker and as I said earlier have no official opinion on this...
I state again however, that there are plenty of other treatment options available as well; see here for a decent list: http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/Treatme ... ypes/index
as you'll see, radiation treatment is one of many options, and while a common one, is to my understanding actually less common than chemotherapy.
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby saxitoxin on Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:39 pm

fadedpsychosis wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
fadedpsychosis wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:So how does one deal with the unintended consequences of curbing Iran's ability to treat cancer patients?

Shall this be ignored? Shall the facts be disputed?

are you saying uranium enrichment is the only way of getting cancer treatment in iran? what about other, non nuclear based treatment options? what about weapons grade enriched nuclear material? are you saying they need that too? wouldn't that be counter productive, considering weapons grade uranium is more likely to cause cancer that treat it?



Saxi posted some great rhetoric, which in my opinion seems worthy of being addressed; however, I have no idea how cancer treatment and enriching uranium are related.

I have gone back and read it closer, and even though in research reactors you do typically see higher levels of enrichment the US at least has moved to change the fuel from HEU to LEU (higher to lower grade)... the US policy makers in this case may want iran to do the same process to the reactor in question rather than just give them high enriched uranium... but I'm not a policy maker and as I said earlier have no official opinion on this...
I state again however, that there are plenty of other treatment options available as well; see here for a decent list: http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/Treatme ... ypes/index
as you'll see, radiation treatment is one of many options, and while a common one, is to my understanding actually less common than chemotherapy.


Again, if Germans, Israelis, Americans and Italians have the option of simple, non-invasive radiation therapy, it's not okay to say Iranians will have to make due with having their bodies cut open to remove small growths because they're just Iranian. It's not okay to say Iranians will have to deal with being blinded from thyroid eye disease because the west has decided they're not allowed to have radiation therapy in their country.
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Re: Are Iranian sanctions working?

Postby fadedpsychosis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:50 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
fadedpsychosis wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
fadedpsychosis wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:So how does one deal with the unintended consequences of curbing Iran's ability to treat cancer patients?

Shall this be ignored? Shall the facts be disputed?

are you saying uranium enrichment is the only way of getting cancer treatment in iran? what about other, non nuclear based treatment options? what about weapons grade enriched nuclear material? are you saying they need that too? wouldn't that be counter productive, considering weapons grade uranium is more likely to cause cancer that treat it?



Saxi posted some great rhetoric, which in my opinion seems worthy of being addressed; however, I have no idea how cancer treatment and enriching uranium are related.

I have gone back and read it closer, and even though in research reactors you do typically see higher levels of enrichment the US at least has moved to change the fuel from HEU to LEU (higher to lower grade)... the US policy makers in this case may want iran to do the same process to the reactor in question rather than just give them high enriched uranium... but I'm not a policy maker and as I said earlier have no official opinion on this...
I state again however, that there are plenty of other treatment options available as well; see here for a decent list: http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/Treatme ... ypes/index
as you'll see, radiation treatment is one of many options, and while a common one, is to my understanding actually less common than chemotherapy.


Again, if Germans, Israelis, Americans and Italians have the option of simple, non-invasive radiation therapy, it's not okay to say Iranians will have to make due with having their bodies cut open to remove small growths because they're just Iranian. It's not okay to say Iranians will have to deal with being blinded from thyroid eye disease because the west has decided they're not allowed to have radiation therapy in their country.

how did you get your conclusion out of what I said? by the article you posted they're using a reactor we provided them in the first place, probably many years ago, which uses higher level enrichment fuel rods. we don't want to give them higher enriched rods. they have several options in this case: they can convert the facility to use lower enriched uranium like we are doing with our own (which would most certainly be the option the western policy makers seem to want), they can build their own damn reactor that uses LEU in the first place, and they have plenty of alternatives to nuclear produced cures.
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