Conquer Club

Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderator: Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby thegreekdog on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:21 pm

I've been hearing and reading a lot about the various tax plans. "Obama is going to raise taxes on small businesses that employ most Americans." "Romney is going to have a $5 trillion tax cut." "Obama is going to raise taxes on the rich." "Romney is going to raise taxes on the middle class."

So I decided to go to the sources: the candidates' tax plans themselves. Here they are in brief with links:

The Pres-o-dent's Plan

http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/

(1) The Buffett Rule

Billionaire Warren Buffett and many wealthy Americans pay a lower tax rate than middle-class families do. That’s just not fair. Warren Buffett knows it and President Obama wants to fix it. The Buffett Rule would require everyone to pay their fair share—a key step to reduce the deficit and invest in what we need to grow and strengthen the economy. Mitt Romney opposes the Buffett Rule because he wants to protect tax loopholes and give millionaires like himself trillions of dollars in tax breaks paid for by either increasing the deficit or by cutting programs critical to the middle class and economic growth.


The Buffett Rule would close loopholes and require millionaires to pay their fair share—at least as much as many middle-class families.


The calculator is based on a hypothetical comparison between you and an average member of America’s top 400 wealthiest taxpayers. These taxpayers are most often investors who make money with money, and get special treatment in the tax code—allowing them to pay a much smaller portion of their income than middle-class families who earn a living from wages. Sen. Whitehouse’s proposed Buffett Rule legislation would phase in for taxpayers earning between $1-2 million. Taxpayers earning over $2 million would pay 30% of their income in taxes, less modified charitable contributions.

The calculator assumes all income below $100,000 is wage income. IRS data is used to approximate income composition for higher income levels. The calculator estimates your deduction as 18% of AGI or the standard deduction, whichever is higher. The calculator assumes that, if applicable, you take the Earned Income Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit. Families with children are assumed to have two children.

The calculator rounds your estimated taxes to the nearest $5,000 increment. All calculated numbers are estimates.


Note #1 (in red): They get a special tax rate under the code and can offset capital gain income with capital loss income.

Note #2 (in bold): There is a tax rate calculator. I put my salary in the calculator and it was impossible to calculate my estimated tax rate since people with my income typically have other income sources. I suspect it says that because my tax rate would be more than Buffett's and would not be helped by Obama's plan. See the bold above.

Note #3 (nothing): There does not appear to be a link to Senator Whitehouse's bill. So what loopholes are going to be fixed? Seems like Democrats grousing about the Republicans' tax plan should stop.

(2) Investing in the Middle Class

President Obama knows we can’t simply cut our way to prosperity. His budget includes investments in education, manufacturing, and infrastructure, while bringing discretionary spending to its lowest level as a share of the economy in more than 50 years .


Not a tax plan, so let's move on.

(3) Reducing the Deficit by More than $4 Trillion Over the Next Decade

President Obama has put forward a specific, balanced plan of spending cuts and revenue increases that reduce the deficit by more than $4 trillion over the next decade, including $1 trillion in spending cuts he signed into law last summer as part of a deal with congressional Republicans.


The revenue increases are probably taxes, so let's look at them.

The link describes the following:

$1.910 trillion of revenue from "closing corporate loopholes and tax increases on high income earners." No specifics here.

So, in sum, what we garner from the president's website is that he will raise taxes on high income earners and close corporate loopholes. There are no specifics including what constitutes a "high income earner" and what corporate loopholes the president will close.

Mitten's Plan

We are in the midst of yet another great American discussion about taxation. Perhaps no policy area has become more sensitive or controversial. At stake are two vital concerns for the American future: How will we generate sufficient revenue to balance our budget without discouraging economic activity, and will the burden of taxation fall equitably on all Americans?

Tax policy shapes almost everything individuals and enterprises do as they participate in the economy. With bad design, tax policy can discourage economic activity. With good design, it can encourage it. Yet our current tax system is an accretion of decades of patchwork decisions that came into being with no systematic thought for their implications for job creation or economic growth. Every year, individual taxpayers are forced to confront a Rube Goldberg contraption of bewildering complexity that leads to a range of undesirable outcomes, including the fact that millions of Americans have to pay hundreds of dollars to have their tax returns prepared by a professional who understands the rules. Corporations, for their part, are subject to rules and regulations that all too often encourage tax gamesmanship while discouraging reinvestment in the American economy.


(1) Individual Taxes

(a) Make permanent, across-the-board 20 percent cut in marginal rates
(b) Maintain current tax rates on interest, dividends, and capital gains
(c) Eliminate taxes for taxpayers with AGI below $200,000 on interest, dividends, and capital gains
(d) Eliminate the Death Tax
(e) Repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT)

(2) Corporate Taxes

(a) Cut the corporate rate to 25 percent.
(b) Strengthen and make permanent the R&D tax credit
(c) Switch to a territorial tax system
(d) Repeal the corporate AMT

Okay. Not too much detail here, but better than on Obama's website. With the possible exception of (a) (without know more details) and definitely wtih (e), none of these items are for high income earners. I'm not sure what the Death Tax refers to either. The AMT is a little ridiculous (since lots of people who weren't originally meant to pay it now have to pay it). So, anyway, no tax cuts for rich in here. It is troubling that the "increasing the revenue base" part of the plan is not listed anywhere. As you may recall from the debates, both Romney and Ryan indicated that there is a drop in rates, but there will also be an increase in the base (which means the income subject to the lower tax rate will be higher than now). That's not anywhere in here, even on a basic level.

Analysis

There isn't much to analyze. Neither website provides much detail. Romney's plan seems to have more actual points to it than Obama's plan, which seems to just have one point, maybe two. Romney's plan lowers taxes for everyone. Obama's plan lowers taxes for no one and raises taxes on the rich, which is an undefined term (and troubling in its undefinition).

My other point is that this is all rhetoric, which emphasis on the word "all." After both debates, I've heard a lot about how the Republicans don't have a plan, but I haven't heard anything about how the Democrats don't have a plan. It appears that both parties have plans that are similar in their lack of detail. So perhaps the criticism of the Republican plan is misplaced. I would like to have seen someone ask the president or vice president details about their tax plans, like what was asked of the Republican candidates.

Final point is that there should be some website somewhere put up by the parties themselves that provides for more details on all of these plans. I'm sure there are a group of people in each campaign that are in charge of tax plans. They should provide those plans in detail for us to review. It would make the decision-making process a whole lot easier. And maybe that's what they don't publish those plans - why go into detail and have it criticized when we can just listen to rhetoric?
Image
User avatar
Sergeant thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6751
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Night Strike on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:46 pm

Death Tax = Estate Tax
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby thegreekdog on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:48 pm

Night Strike wrote:Death Tax = Estate Tax


Yeah, I know. My point was that I don't understand why that is in the plan. How can you repeal the estate tax?
Image
User avatar
Sergeant thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6751
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Night Strike on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:49 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Death Tax = Estate Tax


Yeah, I know. My point was that I don't understand why that is in the plan. How can you repeal the estate tax?


Can you not pass a law saying that inheritances are not taxed?
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby thegreekdog on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:51 pm

Night Strike wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Death Tax = Estate Tax


Yeah, I know. My point was that I don't understand why that is in the plan. How can you repeal the estate tax?


Can you not pass a law saying that inheritances are not taxed?


Yes. Hard to do all the things Romney has laid out while balancing the budget. That is the problem with his tax plan - he needs details. If he's going to do all this cutting, he needs more specifics as to what he's cutting from spending and how he's going to increase revenues subject to tax. The same goes for Obama by the way.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6751
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Night Strike on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:05 pm

Yep, there definitely needs to be more specifics on which governmental programs would be cut. I would start by ending baseline budgeting. I would then call for a 1% across-the-board cut to every single Cabinet program unless those officials can remove specific programs that would total at least 1% of their departmental budget. That would happen each of the 4 years of the term. I would then have each Cabinet member go through each smaller department to see which programs could be cut or consolidated. I have no clue what the numbers would come out to be, but they would be an immediate improvement over the current situation. Unfortunately, I won't ever be president to do that (and most likely none who would get elected would do that).
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:15 pm

Night Strike wrote:I would then call for a 1% across-the-board cut to every single Cabinet program unless those officials can remove specific programs that would total at least 1% of their departmental budget. That would happen each of the 4 years of the term.


Across-the-board blanket cuts are bad business. Cuts need to have intelligence behind them, much as increases (when necessary) need to have intelligence behind them.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 5092
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:45 pm

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 5092
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby MegaProphet on Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:16 pm

I think the reason that the Romney ticket is criticized more for not giving details is they are looking to get votes by promising to cut taxes. They are claiming they can do this and also reduce the deficit. It will be difficult to accomplish this so without details we don't know if it is possible. The Obama ticket(as far as I know) isn't claiming they will cut taxes they're just claiming they will reduce the deficit by closing loopholes. We can see that this is possible without as many details and so we aren't asking for them.
User avatar
Corporal MegaProphet
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:12 pm
Medals: 7
Standard Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2)
General Achievement (1)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:32 am

MegaProphet wrote:I think the reason that the Romney ticket is criticized more for not giving details is they are looking to get votes by promising to cut taxes. They are claiming they can do this and also reduce the deficit. It will be difficult to accomplish this so without details we don't know if it is possible. The Obama ticket(as far as I know) isn't claiming they will cut taxes they're just claiming they will reduce the deficit by closing loopholes. We can see that this is possible without as many details and so we aren't asking for them.


That makes sense I suppose. My beef with this particular explanation is that the Republicans are also paying for their tax cuts by closing loopholes. The Republicans have given the same level of detail as the Democrats: "we're going to close loopholes."
Image
User avatar
Sergeant thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6751
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby jimboston on Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:40 am

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:I would then call for a 1% across-the-board cut to every single Cabinet program unless those officials can remove specific programs that would total at least 1% of their departmental budget. That would happen each of the 4 years of the term.


Across-the-board blanket cuts are bad business. Cuts need to have intelligence behind them, much as increases (when necessary) need to have intelligence behind them.


Why? Do you you need "intelligence" in tax cuts?
Why can I not just keep more of the money I earn?

"Intelligence" in the Tax Code just creates a more complex code. Having all these deductions help "rich" people who can afford Tax Accountants... they do nothing for Middle/Low Income people.
User avatar
Private 1st Class jimboston
 
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:45 pm
Location: Boston (Area), Massachusetts; U.S.A.
Medals: 15
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Woodruff on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:19 am

jimboston wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:I would then call for a 1% across-the-board cut to every single Cabinet program unless those officials can remove specific programs that would total at least 1% of their departmental budget. That would happen each of the 4 years of the term.


Across-the-board blanket cuts are bad business. Cuts need to have intelligence behind them, much as increases (when necessary) need to have intelligence behind them.


Why? Do you you need "intelligence" in tax cuts?


Because doing things blindly and arbitrarily is unlikely to be the most effective.

jimboston wrote:Why can I not just keep more of the money I earn?


That's a different subject, to be honest. It's possible to cut just as much from the deficit intelligently as it is to cut it across-the-board, so this statement doesn't affect my argument in any way. Please don't mistake my position as one of "don't cut as much"...I'm simply asking that it be done "for reason" rather than arbitrarily.

jimboston wrote:"Intelligence" in the Tax Code just creates a more complex code. Having all these deductions help "rich" people who can afford Tax Accountants... they do nothing for Middle/Low Income people.


No, that is not at all what I'm referring to, because I'm not talking about the tax code. I'm talking about the budget.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 5092
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby jimboston on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:53 am

Woodruff wrote:
No, that is not at all what I'm referring to, because I'm not talking about the tax code. I'm talking about the budget.


Sorry... thought you meant Tax Cuts.

I agree that Budget Cuts must be done intelligently. The across the board "Fiscal Cliff" looming will be bad if not halted.
User avatar
Private 1st Class jimboston
 
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:45 pm
Location: Boston (Area), Massachusetts; U.S.A.
Medals: 15
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Woodruff on Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:11 am

jimboston wrote:I agree that Budget Cuts must be done intelligently. The across the board "Fiscal Cliff" looming will be bad if not halted.


Well Phatscotty and Night Strike are the primary vocal proponents of that across-the-board-budget-cuts strategy - you should get on them about it.

In fact, I was responding to exactly such a post from Night Strike who was clearly referring to departmental budget cuts when you responded to me, so I'm not sure how you missed that.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 5092
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Night Strike on Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:29 pm

A 1% cut across the board isn't that onerous. And I specifically stated that if they can cut more from one area of the department, then it wouldn't have to be 1% in every single area.
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Woodruff on Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:46 pm

Night Strike wrote:A 1% cut across the board isn't that onerous. And I specifically stated that if they can cut more from one area of the department, then it wouldn't have to be 1% in every single area.


It's still nonsensical and irresponsible.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 5092
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Night Strike on Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:50 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:A 1% cut across the board isn't that onerous. And I specifically stated that if they can cut more from one area of the department, then it wouldn't have to be 1% in every single area.


It's still nonsensical and irresponsible.


Continuing to increase spending beyond revenues makes even less sense and is much more irresponsible. Budgets for most departments have grown by much more than 1% in the past 4 years. Do you really think all those increases are so crucial that they can't be rolled back?
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Woodruff on Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:53 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:A 1% cut across the board isn't that onerous. And I specifically stated that if they can cut more from one area of the department, then it wouldn't have to be 1% in every single area.


It's still nonsensical and irresponsible.


Continuing to increase spending beyond revenues makes even less sense and is much more irresponsible. Budgets for most departments have grown by much more than 1% in the past 4 years. Do you really think all those increases are so crucial that they can't be rolled back?


I find it humorous that you believe my stance against blind, arbitrary cuts means I think that increasing spending beyond revenues is a good thing. And yes, I would say it's reasonable that A FEW of those increases may be so crucial that they shouldn't be rolled back.

My point here is that blind cuts are irresponsible and nonsensical. They're a sound bite that sounds good to idiots.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 5092
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:24 pm

Across the board cuts (at the same rates) aren't the best way of reducing government expenditures, but what's a more practical (and actually implementable) standard of cutting?

Politicians who favor program A will want a proportional cut in other programs if their own program has to be cut. It's political compromise, which results in stupid consequences.
User avatar
Major BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 5151
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:50 pm

I have another question for the gallery - Where are Democrats getting the idea that the Republicans' tax plan would be paid for by middle class tax hikes? Is there something in the plan that I missed?
Image
User avatar
Sergeant thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6751
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby jimboston on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:44 am

Woodruff wrote: (to jimboston) so I'm not sure how you missed that.


because I sometimes read to fast or just skim, and often jump to conclusions?

My bad. :)

See... I CAN ADMIT WHEN I'M WRONG!

Hey can someone show me how to link this post to that thread from a few weeks ago asking people how often they admit error?
User avatar
Private 1st Class jimboston
 
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:45 pm
Location: Boston (Area), Massachusetts; U.S.A.
Medals: 15
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Night Strike on Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:31 pm

jimboston wrote:Hey can someone show me how to link this post to that thread from a few weeks ago asking people how often they admit error?


At the top of your post next to the author and timestamp, there is a red or white notebook page. Click that and it will give you the direct link to the post.
Image
User avatar
Captain Night Strike
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 79
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:44 pm

thegreekdog wrote:I have another question for the gallery - Where are Democrats getting the idea that the Republicans' tax plan would be paid for by middle class tax hikes? Is there something in the plan that I missed?

According to Factcheck.org, he has not specifically said he would tax the middle class. The claim comes from the idea that he would either have to raise taxes on the middle class or raise the deficit, but there may be other options:

Here, from Fact check:
The ad also says that Romney’s plan “gives the wealthy huge new tax breaks.” Romney’s plan would keep the Bush-era tax cuts in place and cut the marginal income tax rates an additional 20 percent. It also would eliminate the estate tax. Upper-income taxpayers would benefit disproportionately from across-the-board rate cuts. They also would benefit solely from the elimination of the estate tax, which is imposed only on estates exceeding $5.1 million.

The TPC’s detailed calculations showed that — before any elimination or reduction of tax credits, deductions or exclusions — Romney’s plan would result in an average tax cut of $256,603 for those making $1 million a year or more who get a tax cut. But, we stress, that’s before any other changes in the tax code to offset the $4.8 trillion.

The $5 trillion question is how would Romney offset the tax revenue loss in order to make his plan revenue neutral? Romney hasn’t provided specifics — saying he will work with Congress on a plan to make up the lost revenue and insisting that the economy will grow enough to make up for the rest. Mitchell made a point of noting Romney’s lack of specifics in her fact-checking segment, as did we in our debate fact-checking article.

The ad offers voters a false dichotomy when it says Romney has only two choices: “raise taxes on the middle class or increase the deficit to pay for it.” There are other options. Romney, for example, could reduce the size of his tax plan, perhaps not cut tax rates so deeply. He could, too, keep his promise to cut low- and middle-income tax brackets 20 percent, but not upper-income brackets. He hasn’t suggested either option. But the point is that he has other options. And he has emphatically said, as he did in his acceptance speech, that he will not raise taxes on the middle class.


From my perspective, tbe fact that he has given so few details and its just one month until the election is worrisome. That combined with his clear plans to decrease the taxes of the wealthy seem to indicate he is making promises, but not necessarily going to stick by them. We need details.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 31
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (1) Training Achievement (1)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby Baron Von PWN on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:18 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:Across the board cuts (at the same rates) aren't the best way of reducing government expenditures, but what's a more practical (and actually implementable) standard of cutting?

Politicians who favor program A will want a proportional cut in other programs if their own program has to be cut. It's political compromise, which results in stupid consequences.


The most reasonable way to cut government is targeted cuts. "Do we need a ministry of silly walks? no. no we don't Let's cut that ministry" or even cutting specific programs within a certain ministry. That's more effective than having a bunch of under funded government agencies.

I understand what you're getting at that institutional entrenchment and bureaucracies will resist that. What's needed is sufficiently formidable political will ( I don't think this is present in the USA atm).

Eastern Europe's transition from command economies would actually be a good case study of how to go about enacting budget cuts. They all went about it different ways and I think there has been a decently significant amount of time to properly study it (there's a wealth of research into it already).
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Baron Von PWN
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: Capital region ,Canada
Medals: 19
Standard Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Comparing the Candidates' Tax Plans

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:29 pm

Baron Von PWN wrote:Eastern Europe's transition from command economies would actually be a good case study of how to go about enacting budget cuts. They all went about it different ways and I think there has been a decently significant amount of time to properly study it (there's a wealth of research into it already).

This is a good point.

But in the case of Nightstrike, the issue is that he doesn't see the need for a lot of things.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 31
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (1) Training Achievement (1)

Next

Return to New Name Pending

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dukasaur