Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderators: Global Moderators, Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:09 pm

john9blue wrote:technocracy/meritocracy


Wow, 2 votes for meritocracy already and interestingly enough by(I'm assuming) two Americans? I am an American and I also am finding myself somehow attracted to this option. John, care to add why or do you basically follow thegreekdog's train of thought?
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby Woodruff on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:09 pm

john9blue wrote:technocracy


I, for one, welcome our new robotic overlords.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4973
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby john9blue on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:58 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
john9blue wrote:technocracy/meritocracy


Wow, 2 votes for meritocracy already and interestingly enough by(I'm assuming) two Americans? I am an American and I also am finding myself somehow attracted to this option. John, care to add why or do you basically follow thegreekdog's train of thought?


maybe because americans have seen firsthand what it's like to have highly incompetent politicians?
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)
User avatar
Captain john9blue
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 pm
Location: FlutterChi-town
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:07 pm

john9blue wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:
john9blue wrote:technocracy/meritocracy


Wow, 2 votes for meritocracy already and interestingly enough by(I'm assuming) two Americans? I am an American and I also am finding myself somehow attracted to this option. John, care to add why or do you basically follow thegreekdog's train of thought?


maybe because americans have seen firsthand what it's like to have highly incompetent politicians?


Solid point.

I was thinking though, as far as the meritocracy choice this seems more like an adjective you could add to some forms of government as opposed to an actual specific system. If you don't mind amplifying, your choice would be then a meritocratic __________ ?

Tgd, how about you?
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby tkr4lf on Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:14 pm

Libertarian Police State.
User avatar
Major tkr4lf
 
Posts: 1403
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:35 am
Location: Austin, TX
Medals: 64
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (4)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (12) Tournament Contribution (14)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:44 pm

Randomtatorship.

All children born play an assdoodle game at age six. Winners are eligible for office, with relative rank decided by further assdoodling.
show
User avatar
Captain DoomYoshi
Entertainment Contributor
Entertainment Contributor
 
Posts: 4231
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:30 pm
Location: Termina Field
Medals: 73
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (8) Clan Achievement (16)
Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (5)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:48 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Randomtatorship.

All children born play an assdoodle game at age six. Winners are eligible for office, with relative rank decided by further assdoodling.


All Hail our Randomtator DoomYoshi!
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:05 am

tkr4lf wrote:Libertarian Police State.


To each their own. I'm assuming you would want to be a commoner in this scenario? It wouldn't be much fun without corruption though.
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby tkr4lf on Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:19 am

Funkyterrance wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:Libertarian Police State.


To each their own. I'm assuming you would want to be a commoner in this scenario? It wouldn't be much fun without corruption though.

I don't even know what the hell that is.

I just posted the most absurd sounding government type that I could think of. I'm pretty sure I saw it on NationStates.


Anyway, to be serious, I would probably go with dictatorship, for its efficiency, or meritocracy, for the fairness. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but in a corruption-free world, they would both do nicely.

Hell, even communism would work well with absolutely no corruption.
User avatar
Major tkr4lf
 
Posts: 1403
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:35 am
Location: Austin, TX
Medals: 64
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (4)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (12) Tournament Contribution (14)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby Neoteny on Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:24 am

Neotocracy.
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
User avatar
Lieutenant Neoteny
 
Posts: 2510
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:24 pm
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Medals: 29
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (2)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:26 am

The right answer is Incorruptocracy.

All of you are wrong... except Neoteny.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4664
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:33 am

tkr4lf wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:Libertarian Police State.


To each their own. I'm assuming you would want to be a commoner in this scenario? It wouldn't be much fun without corruption though.

I don't even know what the hell that is.

I just posted the most absurd sounding government type that I could think of. I'm pretty sure I saw it on NationStates.


Anyway, to be serious, I would probably go with dictatorship, for its efficiency, or meritocracy, for the fairness. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but in a corruption-free world, they would both do nicely.

Hell, even communism would work well with absolutely no corruption.


There are some cool aspects of communism I agree but upon learning more about it in the past its got some serious issues, even if non-corrupt. From what I understood the biggest issue is that in a communist society no one is rich or poor. The harder/less hard you work makes no impact on your status. This tends to rob people of their ambition/drive.
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:22 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:It's difficult to answer because I'm not sure what 'not being corrupt' entails.

For example, a liberal democracy would be optimal because if the politicians and bureaucrats are incapable of corruption, then they'd be impervious to rent-seeking (groups trying to advance their own interests, e.g. social security recipients voting for those politicians who reject significant yet necessary reform). Since these politicians are not corrupt, they'd be impervious to advancing short-term profit (votes from rent-seekers) while neglecting long-term costs (insane debt and unfunded liabilities).



They'd make the necessary cuts, balance the books, keep surpluses to for future spending in order to mitigate the consequences of recessions, etc. They strive to uphold the Constitution, abide by the right rules (which is a hole in this hypothetical situation), and behave in ways which go against political incentives (which is another hole in the situation). So, it depends on how broad one wishes to extend that 'non-corruption'.


If the bureaucrats were incorruptible, then they wouldn't advance the interests of their cohorts, salaries, and budgets at the expense of taxpayers. In my mind, that would serve as being incorruptible because they're actively trying to discover what the common good (so they're not corrupted by greed or self-advancement).


Like FT indicated above, a liberal democracy would not ensure that the most qualified people were in office. A meritocrracy would, by its definition, ensure that the most qualfied individuals were in office.


I don't see how this really gets to the core issues. If the government is incorruptible, then they'd attempt their best to establish a fair and impartial means of determining qualifications for various positions. And even if the 'best' politicians and bureaucrats (P&B) don't get in, then does that even matter? An incorruptible government can no longer enrich itself by making false promises in order to advance its own goals. With rent-seeking rendered ineffective, then more people won't view the government as necessary for services/goods X, Y, and Z. Instead they'll turn to themselves (in the market) and/or to local 'political' communities to provide their own public goods (e.g. greek polis/city-states with local governing councils).

It all hinges on what exactly being incorruptible entails.


Interesting that you bring up the polis, since I was thinking about that in reference to a meritocracy. It tended that the democratic polis elected the best people to govern. So perhaps a democratically elected meritocracy is the best thing.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6217
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby jimboston on Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:31 am

thegreekdog wrote:My initial answer is either meritocracy or dictatorship. I haven't decided yet.


Assuming no corruption... which is a ridiculous assumption... I would say meritocracy.

Even a benevolent dictatorship can have an incompetent ruler. The assumption assumes a lack of corruption... not a lack of incompetance.

A meritocracy by definition would appoint/promote the best.
User avatar
Private jimboston
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:45 pm
Location: Boston (Area), Massachusetts; U.S.A.
Medals: 15
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby jimboston on Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:36 am

Funkyterrance wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:Libertarian Police State.


To each their own. I'm assuming you would want to be a commoner in this scenario? It wouldn't be much fun without corruption though.

I don't even know what the hell that is.

I just posted the most absurd sounding government type that I could think of. I'm pretty sure I saw it on NationStates.


Anyway, to be serious, I would probably go with dictatorship, for its efficiency, or meritocracy, for the fairness. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but in a corruption-free world, they would both do nicely.

Hell, even communism would work well with absolutely no corruption.


There are some cool aspects of communism I agree but upon learning more about it in the past its got some serious issues, even if non-corrupt. From what I understood the biggest issue is that in a communist society no one is rich or poor. The harder/less hard you work makes no impact on your status. This tends to rob people of their ambition/drive.


In a Meritocracy the policies would be created by the absolute smartest people.

It's likely they would come up with tax policies / welfare policies that reach the best balance of encouraging greatness from those who are able... and rewarding said greatness; while at the same time ensuring that those who are not so fortunate still ahve a place in society and are able to conribute and have their basic needs met.
User avatar
Private jimboston
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:45 pm
Location: Boston (Area), Massachusetts; U.S.A.
Medals: 15
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby tkr4lf on Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:38 am

Funkyterrance wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:Libertarian Police State.


To each their own. I'm assuming you would want to be a commoner in this scenario? It wouldn't be much fun without corruption though.

I don't even know what the hell that is.

I just posted the most absurd sounding government type that I could think of. I'm pretty sure I saw it on NationStates.


Anyway, to be serious, I would probably go with dictatorship, for its efficiency, or meritocracy, for the fairness. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but in a corruption-free world, they would both do nicely.

Hell, even communism would work well with absolutely no corruption.


There are some cool aspects of communism I agree but upon learning more about it in the past its got some serious issues, even if non-corrupt. From what I understood the biggest issue is that in a communist society no one is rich or poor. The harder/less hard you work makes no impact on your status. This tends to rob people of their ambition/drive.

If we expanded the hypothetical to not only the government taking the anti-corruption pill, but the entire populace, then communism would work wonders. "From each according to their ability, to each according the their need."

If everybody only worked toward the common good, then each and every person would do all that they could, work their hardest, etc. Each and every person would be doled out exactly what they needed by the non-corrupt government.

Of course, in our world, communism sucks. But in your hypothetical world, I think it could actually work.
User avatar
Major tkr4lf
 
Posts: 1403
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:35 am
Location: Austin, TX
Medals: 64
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (4)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (12) Tournament Contribution (14)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:43 am

This should have a poll. I bet randomtatorship would win.
show
User avatar
Captain DoomYoshi
Entertainment Contributor
Entertainment Contributor
 
Posts: 4231
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:30 pm
Location: Termina Field
Medals: 73
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (8) Clan Achievement (16)
Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (5)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:40 am

I don't get the whole meritocracy argument.

The P&B are not corrupt, but they aren't suddenly all-wise and all-knowing, nor do they have a method superior to the market for rooting out the best of the best of the best, sir.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4664
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:39 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:I don't get the whole meritocracy argument.

The P&B are not corrupt, but they aren't suddenly all-wise and all-knowing, nor do they have a method superior to the market for rooting out the best of the best of the best, sir.


This is why I think meritocratic would most likely be used to amplify your answer but more details are needed for a complete picture.
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby / on Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:03 pm

Autonomy; without corruption, I believe the people have the ability to decide what is best for themselves.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class /
 
Posts: 263
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:41 am
Medals: 4
Standard Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby john9blue on Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:29 pm

/ wrote:Autonomy; without corruption, I believe the people have the ability to decide what is best for themselves.


so you would give a corrupt government MORE power than one that wasn't corrupt?
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)
User avatar
Captain john9blue
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 pm
Location: FlutterChi-town
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby Woodruff on Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:42 pm

john9blue wrote:
/ wrote:Autonomy; without corruption, I believe the people have the ability to decide what is best for themselves.


so you would give a corrupt government MORE power than one that wasn't corrupt?


That's really not what he said at all.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4973
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby john9blue on Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:18 pm

Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:
/ wrote:Autonomy; without corruption, I believe the people have the ability to decide what is best for themselves.


so you would give a corrupt government MORE power than one that wasn't corrupt?


That's really not what he said at all.


only if he believes autonomy is the best option in the real world
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)
User avatar
Captain john9blue
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 pm
Location: FlutterChi-town
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby / on Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:17 pm

john9blue wrote:
/ wrote:Autonomy; without corruption, I believe the people have the ability to decide what is best for themselves.


so you would give a corrupt government MORE power than one that wasn't corrupt?

It's a give and take equation, if we have criminals; we need police, if we have criminal police; we need internal affairs.
If we have no criminals, we would not need any of the above.

I honestly believe greed and selfishness is the main reason society doesn't function without government. We have taxes because no one wants volunteer to fix the roads we all use, agricultural subsidy so farmers grow what needs to be grown instead of worrying for themselves, books upon books of laws constantly being updated to prevent the exploitation that would occur otherwise.

If all of that was fixed, and the people did good for the sake of doing good, I don't see any reason to uphold any rule that the people themselves don't desire.

Now of course, since I haven't taken a magical pill, this is a biased view to the subjectivity of what is "corruption" and what is "ideal".

Is an ant colony "idyllic" because they work to promote their own group's expansion without any infighting?
Is a group of cacti "idyllic" because they just sit there, not consuming excess resources or being attacked?

A lack of government probably does do away the authoritative efficiency it takes to raise an army to fight martians or whatever, but I think that humans have enough common sense that, without greed, they probably wouldn't end the world anytime soon.

If the question is what I believe a better non-corrupt government would be to raise efficiency for things like urban planning, I would guess something resembling feudalism (or at least what historians redefined feudalism as), divided manors managed by a lord/lady, lords being managed to the count(ess) of their county, counts reporting to dukes, and so on up to the Ruler of Earth.

john9blue wrote:only if he believes autonomy is the best option in the real world

Absolutely not.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class /
 
Posts: 263
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:41 am
Medals: 4
Standard Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: Best Form of Government Assuming No Corruption

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:57 pm

/ wrote:
It's a give and take equation, if we have criminals; we need police, if we have criminal police; we need internal affairs.
If we have no criminals, we would not need any of the above.

I honestly believe greed and selfishness is the main reason society doesn't function without government. We have taxes because no one wants volunteer to fix the roads we all use, agricultural subsidy so farmers grow what needs to be grown instead of worrying for themselves, books upon books of laws constantly being updated to prevent the exploitation that would occur otherwise.

If all of that was fixed, and the people did good for the sake of doing good, I don't see any reason to uphold any rule that the people themselves don't desire.

Now of course, since I haven't taken a magical pill, this is a biased view to the subjectivity of what is "corruption" and what is "ideal".

Is an ant colony "idyllic" because they work to promote their own group's expansion without any infighting?
Is a group of cacti "idyllic" because they just sit there, not consuming excess resources or being attacked?

A lack of government probably does do away the authoritative efficiency it takes to raise an army to fight martians or whatever, but I think that humans have enough common sense that, without greed, they probably wouldn't end the world anytime soon.

If the question is what I believe a better non-corrupt government would be to raise efficiency for things like urban planning, I would guess something resembling feudalism (or at least what historians redefined feudalism as), divided manors managed by a lord/lady, lords being managed to the count(ess) of their county, counts reporting to dukes, and so on up to the Ruler of Earth.


john9blue wrote:only if he believes autonomy is the best option in the real world

/ wrote:Absolutely not.

It seems that / has a refreshing and unusually high level of faith in the goodness of his fellow man. One thing though, the pill isn't magic, its hypothetical. ;)
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Next

Return to Babble-On Five

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron
Login