1 peter 3:15

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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby chang50 on Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:47 pm

Symmetry wrote:
chang50 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Why would they want to?


Why not?


It's not exactly a hospitable environment you've set up to trap them in.


Honest debate was more what I had in mind.
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby Symmetry on Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:51 pm

chang50 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
chang50 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Why would they want to?


Why not?


It's not exactly a hospitable environment you've set up to trap them in.


Honest debate was more what I had in mind.


Really? You came across as trying to set up a trap so that you could use a set of arguments you'd already prepared.
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby chang50 on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:03 pm

Symmetry wrote:
chang50 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
chang50 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Why would they want to?


Why not?


It's not exactly a hospitable environment you've set up to trap them in.


Honest debate was more what I had in mind.


Really? You came across as trying to set up a trap so that you could use a set of arguments you'd already prepared.


I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of me but its moot anyway as it appears hardly anyone is prepared to pick up the gauntlet contrary to what seems a clear obligation to do so..btw did I respond inhospitably to swimmerdude or 2dimes or attempt to trap them?
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby Symmetry on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:10 pm

chang50 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
chang50 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
chang50 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Why would they want to?


Why not?


It's not exactly a hospitable environment you've set up to trap them in.


Honest debate was more what I had in mind.


Really? You came across as trying to set up a trap so that you could use a set of arguments you'd already prepared.


I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of me but its moot anyway as it appears hardly anyone is prepared to pick up the gauntlet contrary to what seems a clear obligation to do so..btw did I respond inhospitably to swimmerdude or 2dimes or attempt to trap them?


I don't think you're all that sorry.

Perhaps more people will reply if you're more sincere about what you want.
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:16 pm

chang50, I wouldn't recommend getting bogged with Symmetry because of the diminishing returns (i.e. posts with Sym quickly become too costly with each additional post).
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:16 pm

To turn this around, let's examine the passage:

1 Peter 3:15

New International Version (NIV)

15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

here

1. Worship Christ
2. Prepare to answer questions about your Christian 'hope'

(A) 'Hope' as in hope of eternal salvation?

3. But be nice about it.


Is that about it?
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby Symmetry on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:19 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:chang50, I wouldn't recommend getting bogged with Symmetry because of the diminishing returns (i.e. posts with Sym quickly become too costly with each additional post).


Chang50, we're not talking to BigBallinStalin anymore, come and hang out on my side of the schoolyard. :roll:
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby swimmerdude99 on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:35 pm

I responded... care to reply to that? :)
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:41 pm

swimmerdude99 wrote:I responded... care to reply to that? :)


I'd be interested in chang50's reply too!

The idea of getting one's strength from God (but not one's self) stems all the way from St. Augustine in the 4th century AD or so (recall his writings on the City of God and the City of Earth). The impact and durability of his ideas are truly amazing!
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby Ray Rider on Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:03 am

chang50 wrote:I'm curious,how seriously do the Christians on this forum,or in general, take the obligation as expressed in their holy book, ie 1 peter 3;15?As I read it,it is a call to explain to all who ask,the reason for the hope in their hearts.

Well if you look back over the history of this forum, Christians have showed up in debates and discussions almost unfailingly when people express a sincere desire to learn about Jesus and the Bible. Some have even become Christians partially as a result of the witness here (such as CoffeCream here couple years back). You do, however, need to read that verse in context with the rest of the New Testament, especially the parable of casting pearls before swine (wasting a precious message on scorners and mockers); Jesus' message of the sower and the rocky ground and fertile ground (Mark 4:1-10); and Jesus' example throughout his ministry which primarily focused on the fertile ground of the laypeople around Him. For me personally, that fertile ground is the people who I interact with around me every day at college, at the places where I volunteer, or on the workplace throughout the summer. For example, when I was working at the lab this summer, some of my coworkers were joking around about some dirty sexual act and asking each other if they had done it. I ignored it until eventually my Chinese friend asked me, I said no, at which the rest of my coworkers snickered and reminded him that I was a Christian. He asked if I went to church, where I went, and if he could come with me. It turned out he had come from China a couple years back where he had been force-fed atheism his whole life, and he wanted to know more about this God of the Bible so he could maybe become a Christian. There is a hunger there and yearning to know more; Christians are happy to hear this and share when the door is open!

However throughout my time here on this forum, I have found that generally the regulars here on the forum already heard the gospel message, have checked out the arguments for Christianity, but for various reasons have chosen to reject them. I have no need to waste my time repeating what is already open and available to any earnest seeker; especially when there are resources readily available which can explain the reasons to believe much more clearly than I can. This isn't like Saudi Arabia or some other repressive country where most people have never heard the good news of Jesus. Many here actually have come from a Christian background and turned to atheism/agnosticism as a as a reaction to their strict upbringing or hypocritical parents/family/others around them claiming to be Christians but not living the life. To people like that, the best witness is usually to just live a normal Christian life next to them, be there for them when they're in need, and be ready to share when the opportunity arises. Otherwise I might end up chasing them even farther from the Truth by sharing my faith when it's not wanted or by feeding one of the many trolls who is quite happy to ridicule and mock any religious person. Also there's the aspect of people who try to respond to anything that has the possibility of being contrary to their beliefs and end up talking about things which they know nothing about; take a look at some of the evolution/evidence for God threads if you're wondering what I'm talking about. I personally try to avoid that kinda thing because it doesn't help anyone either.

In addition, if you're wondering why a Christian like myself doesn't post around here more frequently, I'm taking engineering in college right now and it's busy enough as it is. Real life should always takes precedence over an an online forum. I tend to spend an extraordinary amount of time trying to perfect every post I make here, so unfortunately this site ends up being one of the biggest time-wasters of my life. It's hard to stay away, though...as you may have noticed, I usually post a few times, realize how much time I've spent on the forum, and then leave for a period of time until I get lured back in again by some interesting discussion.

BigBallinStalin wrote:
swimmerdude99 wrote:I responded... care to reply to that? :)


I'd be interested in chang50's reply too!

The idea of getting one's strength from God (but not one's self) stems all the way from St. Augustine in the 4th century AD or so (recall his writings on the City of God and the City of Earth). The impact and durability of his ideas are truly amazing!

I started reading the City of God online a few years back, but had a hard time seeing the application or carry-over to the present day and didn't end up finishing it. I keep hearing about how much theology developed as a result of his writings...I should look more at it again sometime soon.
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby Army of GOD on Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:18 am

Austin 3:16
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:19 am

Ray Rider wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
swimmerdude99 wrote:I responded... care to reply to that? :)


I'd be interested in chang50's reply too!

The idea of getting one's strength from God (but not one's self) stems all the way from St. Augustine in the 4th century AD or so (recall his writings on the City of God and the City of Earth). The impact and durability of his ideas are truly amazing!

I started reading the City of God online a few years back, but had a hard time seeing the application or carry-over to the present day and didn't end up finishing it. I keep hearing about how much theology developed as a result of his writings...I should look more at it again sometime soon.



I'd recommend Great Political Thinkers. It gives you the main points, and you get to read the more important excerpts.
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:23 am

Very honest posts, swimmerdude99 and Ray Rider. Thanks, guys. :D
I myself have my own opinions on the subject but I am entirely too abrasive for it to be beneficial to inject myself too heavily into this thread. I'm happy to let the experts handle this one.
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby chang50 on Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:09 am

swimmerdude99 wrote:I responded... care to reply to that? :)


You fulfilled your obligation and without prejudice,that is you did not prejudge my motives,so kudos to you.Obviously we have reached different conclusions about the nature of reality but that's ok,we are only discussing ideas after all.If only more adherents of theism were as straight..
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby 2dimes on Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:52 am

Well part of the issue I'm having here is I don't read it as,
Always be prepared to write an answer to everyone who asks you ambiguous leading questions on random internet gaming forums in threads where some will troll and others will bump the thread years later, when they're ready to quote you out of context, for the purpose of attacking you, or trying to make your statment look foolish, to give the reason for the hope that you have.


The other part is over the years, I've watched even the strongest Christians here, that went on well beyond what was reasonable and managed to continually give honest answers to people that tended to just respond with. "That's nice that you beleive in something that can't be proven but it just means you're not as smart as us." until they finally had to give up and leave.

Looks like we've run out of them for now. Maybe there will be some new ones sometime, unless they were all raptured.
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby swimmerdude99 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:05 am

chang50 wrote:
swimmerdude99 wrote:I responded... care to reply to that? :)


You fulfilled your obligation and without prejudice,that is you did not prejudge my motives,so kudos to you.Obviously we have reached different conclusions about the nature of reality but that's ok,we are only discussing ideas after all.If only more adherents of theism were as straight..

Ah! well thank you for your non-offensive reply and ability to just discuss opinions. I love discussing all things theology, philosophy and science with friends, or just people that I meet that are interested in learning and understanding all people's opinions to make their own decision on what they find as truth. While I will always make attempts to convince people what I believe is the only Way, I also believe more firmly in my actions being the basis of and the most solid evidence for what I believe in.

Also just from something I saw in Ray Rider's post: If people are wondering how this verse relates to Christian's and maybe their activity here on the forums, my reason for not participating much is twofold.
1) I am busy and I think it more effective to talk and discuss with people in real life face to face with my time and to those who are searching for understanding and truth. I'm not saying what I say in the end will be what they follow, but I'm going to try to help those who are willing to be helped with what precious time I have. That is simple stewardship of time.
2) When I have tried to engage, many (not all, mind you) approach others on here with sarcasm and abrupt disagreement. I don't think any arguments or debates on here will have any real affect on someone's opinion. So all that one can accomplish is being mocked. We all know the saying, don't throw pearls before swine. If someone isn't even possibly to be receptive or actually looking to understand your beliefs, why share it with them? You are a fool to do so.

Again I thank you for being courteous Chang, its nice to know you disagree but that doesn't mean you feel the need to mock or the need to tell me I'm stupid. We can disagree and STILL have opinions in a conversatoin in this world, but that doesn't happen often on the internet, so I spend my time where what I say will actually effect someone.

God Bless you all.

P.S. Mr. Dimes hit the nail on the head with his post as to my sentiments.
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby chang50 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:47 am

swimmerdude99 wrote:
chang50 wrote:
swimmerdude99 wrote:I responded... care to reply to that? :)


You fulfilled your obligation and without prejudice,that is you did not prejudge my motives,so kudos to you.Obviously we have reached different conclusions about the nature of reality but that's ok,we are only discussing ideas after all.If only more adherents of theism were as straight..

Ah! well thank you for your non-offensive reply and ability to just discuss opinions. I love discussing all things theology, philosophy and science with friends, or just people that I meet that are interested in learning and understanding all people's opinions to make their own decision on what they find as truth. While I will always make attempts to convince people what I believe is the only Way, I also believe more firmly in my actions being the basis of and the most solid evidence for what I believe in.

Also just from something I saw in Ray Rider's post: If people are wondering how this verse relates to Christian's and maybe their activity here on the forums, my reason for not participating much is twofold.
1) I am busy and I think it more effective to talk and discuss with people in real life face to face with my time and to those who are searching for understanding and truth. I'm not saying what I say in the end will be what they follow, but I'm going to try to help those who are willing to be helped with what precious time I have. That is simple stewardship of time.
2) When I have tried to engage, many (not all, mind you) approach others on here with sarcasm and abrupt disagreement. I don't think any arguments or debates on here will have any real affect on someone's opinion. So all that one can accomplish is being mocked. We all know the saying, don't throw pearls before swine. If someone isn't even possibly to be receptive or actually looking to understand your beliefs, why share it with them? You are a fool to do so.

Again I thank you for being courteous Chang, its nice to know you disagree but that doesn't mean you feel the need to mock or the need to tell me I'm stupid. We can disagree and STILL have opinions in a conversatoin in this world, but that doesn't happen often on the internet, so I spend my time where what I say will actually effect someone.

God Bless you all.

P.S. Mr. Dimes hit the nail on the head with his post as to my sentiments.


Thank you,it's curious that the only openly confrontational and judgemental response was from Symm,someone who,going off past posts,does not appear to be a Christian or even a theist,but who evidently imagines himself to be a mind-reader.
Anyway I share your love of Philosophy and ideas,so maybe we can influence debate in a positive way here.I'm not naive enough to think it will be easy,I've lost my temper more than once,but it's not impossible.As I've said before,it's only ideas..
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:05 am

OK, normally I DO respond to such questions, but I have not been visiting CC multiple times a day as I once did.

Anyway, to start, it helps to look at more of the verse.

Do not repay evil for evil or abuse for abuse; but, on the contrary, repay with a blessing. It is for this that you were called—that you might inherit a blessing. 10 For "Those who desire life and desire to see good days, let them keep their tongues from evil and their lips from speaking deceit; 11 let them turn away from evil and do good; let them seek peace and pursue it. 12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil." 13 Now who will harm you if you are eager to do what is good? 14 But even if you do suffer for doing what is right, you are blessed. Do not fear what they fear, and do not be intimidated, 15 but in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you; 16 yet do it with gentleness and reverence. Keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who abuse you for your good conduct in Christ may be put to shame. 17 For it is better to suffer for doing good, if suffering should be God's will, than to suffer for doing evil. 18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, 20 who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers made subject to him.


In this context, you see that this series of passages is part of consistant biblical advice. Essentially, it says that you need to do what is right, regardless of how other people act, and to act with compassion, not judgement to others.
The Mennonites have a saying along the lines of " I choose to act, not re-act". When you react, you are letting other people determine your actions.

I always say you can sum up the Bible in the two commandments of Christ "love thy God and love thy neighbor as thyself". This is just part of that.

As to how I, myself, apply this? Imperfectly, of course. I am not Christ, I try to follow him.

Other than that, if you have a specific context?
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Re: 1 peter 3:15

Postby chang50 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:36 pm

Thanx to all the Christians who replied,I've learned from them...
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:12 am

My failures as a "Christian" are not by any means limited to 1 Peter 3:15, or 1 Peter for that matter.

Who is this Jude goof anyway. I can't even remember meeting the guy, yet he's out writing letters to Churches about me? If I see him I'm going to kick his ass!

The Message (MSG)
Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson paraphrasing Jude's letter as translated to english wrote:



I, Jude, am a slave to Jesus Christ and brother to James, writing to those loved by God the Father, called and kept safe by Jesus Christ. Relax, everything's going to be all right; rest, everything's coming together; open your hearts, love is on the way!
Fight with All You Have in You
Dear friends, I've dropped everything to write you about this life of salvation that we have in common. I have to write insisting—begging!—that you fight with everything you have in you for this faith entrusted to us as a gift to guard and cherish. What has happened is that some people have infiltrated our ranks (our Scriptures warned us this would happen), who beneath their pious skin are shameless scoundrels. Their design is to replace the sheer grace of our God with sheer license—which means doing away with Jesus Christ, our one and only Master.
Lost Stars in Outer Space
I'm laying this out as clearly as I can, even though you once knew all this well enough and shouldn't need reminding. Here it is in brief: The Master saved a people out of the land of Egypt. Later he destroyed those who defected. And you know the story of the angels who didn't stick to their post, abandoning it for other, darker missions. But they are now chained and jailed in a black hole until the great Judgment Day. Sodom and Gomorrah, which went to sexual rack and ruin along with the surrounding cities that acted just like them, are another example. Burning and burning and never burning up, they serve still as a stock warning.
This is exactly the same program of these latest infiltrators: dirty sex, rule and rulers thrown out, glory dragged in the mud.

The Archangel Michael, who went to the mat with the Devil as they fought over the body of Moses, wouldn't have dared level him with a blasphemous curse, but said simply, "No you don't. God will take care of you!" But these people sneer at anything they can't understand, and by doing whatever they feel like doing—living by animal instinct only—they participate in their own destruction. I'm fed up with them! They've gone down Cain's road; they've been sucked into Balaam's error by greed; they're canceled out in Korah's rebellion.

These people are warts on your love feasts as you worship and eat together. They're giving you a black eye—carousing shamelessly, grabbing anything that isn't nailed down.

They're—
Puffs of smoke pushed by gusts of wind;
late autumn trees stripped clean of leaf and fruit,
Doubly dead, pulled up by the roots;
wild ocean waves leaving nothing on the beach
but the foam of their shame;
Lost stars in outer space
on their way to the black hole.

Enoch, the seventh after Adam, prophesied of them: "Look! The Master comes with thousands of holy angels to bring judgment against them all, convicting each person of every defiling act of shameless sacrilege, of every dirty word they have spewed of their pious filth." These are the "grumpers," the bellyachers, grabbing for the biggest piece of the pie, talking big, saying anything they think will get them ahead.

But remember, dear friends, that the apostles of our Master, Jesus Christ, told us this would happen: "In the last days there will be people who don't take these things seriously anymore. They'll treat them like a joke, and make a religion of their own whims and lusts." These are the ones who split churches, thinking only of themselves. There's nothing to them, no sign of the Spirit!

But you, dear friends, carefully build yourselves up in this most holy faith by praying in the Holy Spirit, staying right at the center of God's love, keeping your arms open and outstretched, ready for the mercy of our Master, Jesus Christ. This is the unending life, the real life!

Go easy on those who hesitate in the faith. Go after those who take the wrong way. Be tender with sinners, but not soft on sin. The sin itself stinks to high heaven.

And now to him who can keep you on your feet, standing tall in his bright presence, fresh and celebrating—to our one God, our only Savior, through Jesus Christ, our Master, be glory, majesty, strength, and rule before all time, and now, and to the end of all time. Yes.


I bet he's the older brother of one of those hot girls I imagined naked all the time. I never liked those guys.
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