A good summary of the Obama presidency

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A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:36 pm

A new book from filmmaker Oliver Stone offers a scathing critique of President Barack Obama’s time in office.

Stone, who wrote “The Untold History of the United States” with historian Peter Kuznick, puts forth a liberal interpretation of American history from the turn of the last century to present day. The 618-page book, slated for release Tuesday - a week before Election Day - from Gallery Books, slams Republicans and Democrats alike, and the authors’ assessment of Obama’s presidency is tinged with disappointment.

“The country Obama inherited was indeed in shambles, but Obama took a bad situation and, in certain ways, made it worse,” Stone and Kuznick wrote. “…[R]ather than repudiating the policies of Bush and his predecessors, Obama has perpetuated them.”

Obama’s election “felt like a kind of expiation for the sins of a nation whose reputation had been sullied, as we have shown throughout this book, by racism, imperialism, militarism, nuclearism, environmental degradation and unbridled avarice,” they wrote.

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But on subjects from Wall Street reform to health care to Afghanistan, Stone and Kuznick rip Obama for breaking campaign promises and continuing the policies of President George W. Bush — who’s roundly condemned throughout the book. In some instances, they write, Obama went further than Bush’s White House toward anti-progressive policies.

“Obama asserted presidential power in ways that must have made Dick Cheney jealous,” they wrote.

“In 2011, Obama defied his own top lawyers, insisting that he did not need congressional approval under the War Powers Resolution to continue military activities in Libya,” they continued, in their write-up of Obama’s handling of intervention in that country.

(Also on POLITICO: Battleground Tracking Poll: Obama retakes lead)

An accompanying documentary series is set to air on Showtime starting Nov. 12.

Stone said in 2008 that he backed Obama, but earlier this year said that he would support GOP Rep. Ron Paul over Obama if he could.

The biting criticism from Stone and Kuznick includes:

On Wall Street reform: “The biggest winner under Obama was Wall Street.”

(Also on POLITICO: The latest with the 2012 elections)

On health care: “Obama’s failure to articulate a progressive vision was also apparent in the fight over health reform, which was to have been his signature initiative…Obama’s health care reform effort, marked by the inability to even refute Republican charges of death panels, was so unpopular that it became an albatross around the necks of Democrats in the 2010 election.”

On a troop surge in Afghanistan: “When it finally came down to decision time, Obama didn’t have the courage or integrity of a post-Cuban Missile Crisis John F. Kennedy. He settled on a 30,000-troop increase, giving the military leaders almost everything they wanted and more than they expected.”

On civil liberties: “Among the greatest disappointments to his followers was Obama’s refusal to roll back the expanding national security state that so egregiously encroached on American civil liberties.”

On ‘imperialism’: “[He] was not offering a decisive break with over a century of imperial conquest. His was a centrist approach to better managing the American empire rather than advancing a positive role for the United States in a rapidly evolving world.”

On defense spending: “While cutting defense spending, pulling combat forces out of Iraq and beginning the drawdown in Afghanistan represented a welcome retreat from they hypermilitarism of the Bush-Cheney years, they did not represent the sharp and definitive break with empire that the world needed to see from the United States.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/10 ... z2AouiWuMc

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82993.html
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Woodruff on Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:48 pm

Seems pretty on-point to me.
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Frigidus on Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:29 pm

Nah, it's all the other party's fault. Always, no matter what, every election cycle, whatever the result, it is somehow always the other party's fault.
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Woodruff on Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:35 pm

Frigidus wrote:Nah, it's all the other party's fault. Always, no matter what, every election cycle, whatever the result, it is somehow always the other party's fault.


Ah c'mon, the Justice Party isn't THAT bad!
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:23 pm

Other than the term "nuclearism" which I've never heard, I agree with all of that.
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:28 pm

Frigidus wrote:Nah, it's all the other party's fault. Always, no matter what, every election cycle, whatever the result, it is somehow always the other party's fault.


Frigidus, meet politics
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:30 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Frigidus wrote:Nah, it's all the other party's fault. Always, no matter what, every election cycle, whatever the result, it is somehow always the other party's fault.


Frigidus, meet politics


What do you think of that critique PS?
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:05 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Frigidus wrote:Nah, it's all the other party's fault. Always, no matter what, every election cycle, whatever the result, it is somehow always the other party's fault.


Frigidus, meet politics


What do you think of that critique PS?


I think it reads like a list of threads I have created over the last 4 years.

That is to say, spot on
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Woodruff on Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:31 pm

thegreekdog wrote:Other than the term "nuclearism" which I've never heard, I agree with all of that.


Perhaps "nucularism" sounds more familiar. <smile>
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Woodruff on Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:32 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Frigidus wrote:Nah, it's all the other party's fault. Always, no matter what, every election cycle, whatever the result, it is somehow always the other party's fault.


Frigidus, meet politics


What do you think of that critique PS?


I think it reads like a list of threads I have created over the last 4 years.

That is to say, spot on


Now, how do you think the same indictments would relate to Romney?
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:36 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Frigidus wrote:Nah, it's all the other party's fault. Always, no matter what, every election cycle, whatever the result, it is somehow always the other party's fault.


Frigidus, meet politics


What do you think of that critique PS?


I think it reads like a list of threads I have created over the last 4 years.

That is to say, spot on


You do know that Oliver Stone is liberal, right? Does that mean you've finally acknowledged that Obama is not a marxist, communist, socialist, etc.?

Also, Woodruff's question is a good one.
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:51 am

thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Frigidus wrote:Nah, it's all the other party's fault. Always, no matter what, every election cycle, whatever the result, it is somehow always the other party's fault.


Frigidus, meet politics


What do you think of that critique PS?


I think it reads like a list of threads I have created over the last 4 years.

That is to say, spot on




You do know that Oliver Stone is liberal, right? Does that mean you've finally acknowledged that Obama is not a marxist, communist, socialist, etc.?

Also, Woodruff's question is a good one.


....Flaming Lib, sure do

What conclusion am I supposed to draw about Obama based on Oliver Stone and how much or how little be is being truthful with any possible motivations or agendas?

Also, I gave Woodruff a chance recently. He said he would rather I keep him foed, and then went back to his old ways, but he won't foe me, which is what I think he should do. Why in the world would someone want to be foed, but refuse to also foe them? I think there is only one answer to that! 8-)
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:59 am

There's a Communist ambition now to rule or wreck us all
With atomic ammunition they would like to see us fall
Peaceful men of every nation would become as common slaves
We'll prevent that situation better we shall fill our graves


Advice to Joe: Roy Acuff [1951]



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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:31 am

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Frigidus wrote:Nah, it's all the other party's fault. Always, no matter what, every election cycle, whatever the result, it is somehow always the other party's fault.


Frigidus, meet politics


What do you think of that critique PS?


I think it reads like a list of threads I have created over the last 4 years.

That is to say, spot on




You do know that Oliver Stone is liberal, right? Does that mean you've finally acknowledged that Obama is not a marxist, communist, socialist, etc.?

Also, Woodruff's question is a good one.


....Flaming Lib, sure do

What conclusion am I supposed to draw about Obama based on Oliver Stone and how much or how little be is being truthful with any possible motivations or agendas?

Also, I gave Woodruff a chance recently. He said he would rather I keep him foed, and then went back to his old ways, but he won't foe me, which is what I think he should do. Why in the world would someone want to be foed, but refuse to also foe them? I think there is only one answer to that! 8-)


Do you ever stop lying? What I said was that I didn't give a shit if you kept me foed or not, you hypocritical lying piece of shit.

I note you cowardly continue not to answer questions, as well. Are you going to answer it, now that thegreekdog brought it to light (since you allegedly wouldn't see it due to having me foed)?
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby tzor on Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:54 am

thegreekdog wrote:You do know that Oliver Stone is liberal, right? Does that mean you've finally acknowledged that Obama is not a marxist, communist, socialist, etc.?


Well let's get the terms right. Obama is first and foremost a progressive, statist, utopist with marxist (class warfare) tendencies. (He's actually more fascist that marxist, but the technical differences between the two in economic policy are not imporant enough to suffer the comments of the stupid. Tecnically speaking he didn't have to have a government takeover of the coal industry - for example - but through regulations simply make it impossible for a new coal fires power plant to ever open without bankrupting the company.)

When such people go into full steam ahead mode, real liberals get nervous. After all, there is a little "libertarian" in every liberal.
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:15 am

tzor wrote:Well let's get the terms right. Obama is first and foremost a progressive, statist, utopist with marxist (class warfare) tendencies. (He's actually more fascist that marxist, but the technical differences between the two in economic policy are not imporant enough to suffer the comments of the stupid. Tecnically speaking he didn't have to have a government takeover of the coal industry - for example - but through regulations simply make it impossible for a new coal fires power plant to ever open without bankrupting the company.)

When such people go into full steam ahead mode, real liberals get nervous. After all, there is a little "libertarian" in every liberal.


See that guy with the red suspenders
Driving that car with the bright red fenders
I know he's one of those heavy spenders
Get that Communist Joe

He's fillin' my gal with propaganda
And I'm scared she will meander
Don't want to take a chance that he'll land her
Get that Communist Joe

He's a most revolting character
And the fellas hate him so
But with the girls this character
Is a Comrade Romeo

Since my love he's sabotaging
And the law he has been dodging
Give him what he deserves, jailhouse lodging
Get that Communist Joe (Get that Shmo, Joe)


Get That Communist, Joe: The Kavaliers [1954]


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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Frigidus on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:19 am

tzor wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:You do know that Oliver Stone is liberal, right? Does that mean you've finally acknowledged that Obama is not a marxist, communist, socialist, etc.?


Well let's get the terms right. Obama is first and foremost a progressive, statist, utopist with marxist (class warfare) tendencies. (He's actually more fascist that marxist, but the technical differences between the two in economic policy are not imporant enough to suffer the comments of the stupid. Tecnically speaking he didn't have to have a government takeover of the coal industry - for example - but through regulations simply make it impossible for a new coal fires power plant to ever open without bankrupting the company.)

When such people go into full steam ahead mode, real liberals get nervous. After all, there is a little "libertarian" in every liberal.


It fascinates me the sort of conspiracy theories some people will come up with to validate their preconceived/hand-fed notions. This stuff is somehow more ridiculous than the 9-11 troofers.
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby tzor on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:12 pm

Frigidus wrote:It fascinates me the sort of conspiracy theories some people will come up with to validate their preconceived/hand-fed notions. This stuff is somehow more ridiculous than the 9-11 troofers.


What "conspiracy theory?" Obama is an open book. He wants to do what he tells you he wants to do. (Sometimes, he's inable to do what he wants to do, but he tries it anyway.)

Because he tried to be a "blank book" many liberals put their own views onto him. Only now are they starting to realize that he's not what they imagined him being. He's different.
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:35 pm

tzor wrote:
Frigidus wrote:It fascinates me the sort of conspiracy theories some people will come up with to validate their preconceived/hand-fed notions. This stuff is somehow more ridiculous than the 9-11 troofers.


What "conspiracy theory?" Obama is an open book. He wants to do what he tells you he wants to do. (Sometimes, he's inable to do what he wants to do, but he tries it anyway.)

Because he tried to be a "blank book" many liberals put their own views onto him. Only now are they starting to realize that he's not what they imagined him being. He's different.


Anyone paying attention realized long ago that he's not what they elected. However, what he IS is certainly not a Marxist or Fascist.
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:40 pm

Fascism advocates a state-controlled and regulated mixed economy; the principal economic goal of fascism is to achieve autarky to secure national self-sufficiency and independence, through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[10] It promotes regulated private enterprise and private property contingent whenever beneficial to the nation and state enterprise and state property whenever necessary to protect its interests.[10] It supports criminalization of strikes by employees and lockouts by employers because it deems these acts as prejudicial and detrimental to the national community and therefore to society as an entirety.[11] Fascism promotes such economics as a "third position" alternative to capitalism and Marxism, as fascism declares both as being obsolete.[12]
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:14 pm

tzor wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:You do know that Oliver Stone is liberal, right? Does that mean you've finally acknowledged that Obama is not a marxist, communist, socialist, etc.?


Well let's get the terms right. Obama is first and foremost a progressive, statist, utopist with marxist (class warfare) tendencies. (He's actually more fascist that marxist, but the technical differences between the two in economic policy are not imporant enough to suffer the comments of the stupid. Tecnically speaking he didn't have to have a government takeover of the coal industry - for example - but through regulations simply make it impossible for a new coal fires power plant to ever open without bankrupting the company.)

When such people go into full steam ahead mode, real liberals get nervous. After all, there is a little "libertarian" in every liberal.


I don't personally buy this, however, it's a more reasonable and sane response to the question of Obama's Marxism than "he had a neighbor in third grade who liked to listen to Joan Baez."

So, I might disagree with tzor but I considered and contemplated this position first before deciding to disagree - leaving open the possibility I could be convinced pending further argument - versus the other version of the Marxist theory which I rejected out of hand.
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:38 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
tzor wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:You do know that Oliver Stone is liberal, right? Does that mean you've finally acknowledged that Obama is not a marxist, communist, socialist, etc.?


Well let's get the terms right. Obama is first and foremost a progressive, statist, utopist with marxist (class warfare) tendencies. (He's actually more fascist that marxist, but the technical differences between the two in economic policy are not imporant enough to suffer the comments of the stupid. Tecnically speaking he didn't have to have a government takeover of the coal industry - for example - but through regulations simply make it impossible for a new coal fires power plant to ever open without bankrupting the company.)

When such people go into full steam ahead mode, real liberals get nervous. After all, there is a little "libertarian" in every liberal.


I don't personally buy this, however, it's a more reasonable and sane response to the question of Obama's Marxism than "he had a neighbor in third grade who liked to listen to Joan Baez."

So, I might disagree with tzor but I considered and contemplated this position first before deciding to disagree - leaving open the possibility I could be convinced pending further argument - versus the other version of the Marxist theory which I rejected out of hand.


I do think he's a statist, given the past four years. However, also given the past four years in office, the President is hardly progressive or someone with marxist tendencies. Of course, if we pay attention to conspiracy-theory type items, we could come to that conclusion, but I sure don't. I also don't pay attention to rhetoric, which is what the president himself uses in his "class warfare" characteristics.

As I've indicated previously, everything this president has done and signed has indicated to me he is a statist and a crony capitalist. Nothing he has done or signed as president indicates he's a socialist, marxist, or progressive. Oliver Stone has seen the light. Others have not. Perhaps if he wins reelection we will see some socialist or Marxist tendencies, but I doubt it. The wealthy (whether corporate or union or other) have far too much control over politics for Barack Obama to be anything more than someone who advances the interests of the wealthy.
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:10 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
tzor wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:You do know that Oliver Stone is liberal, right? Does that mean you've finally acknowledged that Obama is not a marxist, communist, socialist, etc.?


Well let's get the terms right. Obama is first and foremost a progressive, statist, utopist with marxist (class warfare) tendencies. (He's actually more fascist that marxist, but the technical differences between the two in economic policy are not imporant enough to suffer the comments of the stupid. Tecnically speaking he didn't have to have a government takeover of the coal industry - for example - but through regulations simply make it impossible for a new coal fires power plant to ever open without bankrupting the company.)

When such people go into full steam ahead mode, real liberals get nervous. After all, there is a little "libertarian" in every liberal.


I don't personally buy this, however, it's a more reasonable and sane response to the question of Obama's Marxism than "he had a neighbor in third grade who liked to listen to Joan Baez."

So, I might disagree with tzor but I considered and contemplated this position first before deciding to disagree - leaving open the possibility I could be convinced pending further argument - versus the other version of the Marxist theory which I rejected out of hand.


I do think he's a statist, given the past four years. However, also given the past four years in office, the President is hardly progressive or someone with marxist tendencies. Of course, if we pay attention to conspiracy-theory type items, we could come to that conclusion, but I sure don't. I also don't pay attention to rhetoric, which is what the president himself uses in his "class warfare" characteristics.

As I've indicated previously, everything this president has done and signed has indicated to me he is a statist and a crony capitalist. Nothing he has done or signed as president indicates he's a socialist, marxist, or progressive. Oliver Stone has seen the light. Others have not. Perhaps if he wins reelection we will see some socialist or Marxist tendencies, but I doubt it. The wealthy (whether corporate or union or other) have far too much control over politics for Barack Obama to be anything more than someone who advances the interests of the wealthy.


"The wealthy," huh? You're starting to sound like a class warfare kinda guy...


Are you Marxist/socialist?

I bet you are. I can smell the Manifesto on you.
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:50 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:As I've indicated previously, everything this president has done and signed has indicated to me he is a statist and a crony capitalist. Nothing he has done or signed as president indicates he's a socialist, marxist, or progressive. Oliver Stone has seen the light. Others have not. Perhaps if he wins reelection we will see some socialist or Marxist tendencies, but I doubt it. The wealthy (whether corporate or union or other) have far too much control over politics for Barack Obama to be anything more than someone who advances the interests of the wealthy.


"The wealthy," huh? You're starting to sound like a class warfare kinda guy...


You don't believe that the wealthy have a great deal (I would also say "far too much") of control over national politics in the United States?
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Re: A good summary of the Obama presidency

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:03 pm

Woodruff wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:As I've indicated previously, everything this president has done and signed has indicated to me he is a statist and a crony capitalist. Nothing he has done or signed as president indicates he's a socialist, marxist, or progressive. Oliver Stone has seen the light. Others have not. Perhaps if he wins reelection we will see some socialist or Marxist tendencies, but I doubt it. The wealthy (whether corporate or union or other) have far too much control over politics for Barack Obama to be anything more than someone who advances the interests of the wealthy.


"The wealthy," huh? You're starting to sound like a class warfare kinda guy...


You don't believe that the wealthy have a great deal (I would also say "far too much") of control over national politics in the United States?


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