Conquer Club

mrswdk wrote:>marijuana industry legalized in some American states by democratic mandate
>American authorities continue trying to destroy it anyway

BigBallinStalin wrote:

mrswdk wrote:>marijuana industry legalized in some American states by democratic mandate
>American authorities continue trying to destroy it anyway

Yeah, that's one of the problems with having a strong federal government.

AndyDufresne wrote:Marijuana and same-sex marriages for all!!?!


--Andy

notyou2 wrote:Here is another link, but I am not sure of the validity of this one.

They are showing pictures of Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin. Not sure if they are gay, but this appears to be an excellent source of stupidity and they are the poster children.

http://nationalreport.net/drugs-colorado-new-deadly-strain-marijuana-turning-users-gay/

KoolBak wrote:Just passed in Oregon as well....

notyou2 wrote:

KoolBak wrote:Just passed in Oregon as well....

Do they have super pot that makes you gay in Oregon as well?

Or are all Oregonians already gay?

Funkyterrance wrote:

2dimes wrote:There's a reason it's called "weed". If it was legal it would probably be pretty easy to keep the price down.

Indeed.
They could mass produce the stuff which "grows like a weed" without fear of the law and the price would eventually plummet. Look at the manufacture of alcohol ; it's a pretty complicated/expensive process in comparison and is still relatively cheap.

Phatscotty wrote:

Nola_Lifer wrote:What scientist would you call in that cost 200k a year? This is a plant like any other crop that can be grown. Marijuana growers are as serious about their plants as tomato growers. There isn't that much regulation on growing a farm unless your trying to get certified organic. So scientist, laboratories and warehouses are out of the question unless you see marijuana grown on a large more corporate/industrial scale. Transportation won't be a problem either because of the proximity of growers to urban areas. Lets face it you can grow this shit in you back yard or in a closet at a very low cost. The people who will reap the most reward will be the hemp growers but this isn't what we are talking about.

The prices will most likely be the same, if anything they will drop. You will have lots of people treating this as a gold rush so more people will grow weed who weren't before, regardless of whether they smoke it or not. You will also see more dispensaries which probably won't be as regulated as most tobacco shops. You'll probably find that most tobacco shops will be ahead of the games due to the similar products.

At times it is better to say nothing at all then to make yourself look foolish over and over again.

mm hmmm, mm hmmm, oh? mm hmm, 1 year later, HI! Still here! Love it right? Hey, how about an update. Hope you have noticed, A LOT can change in a year, no? I'm still sticking with 'keep the government out of it', let's see how things look nowadays, shall we?

It's so real
It's How I Feel
I'm just straight ill
Ridin' my motorcycle down the streets
While the government is soundin' like strippers to me
They keep sayin' but I don't wanna hear it...

Oooh baby you want me?
Oooh baby you want me?
Oooh baby you want me?
Well you can get this lap dance here for free
Now you can get this lap dance here for free
Well you can get this lap dance here for free
Oooh baby you want me?
Now you can get this lap dance here for free N.E.R.D. - Lapdance

See Nola, you may be right in the most simplistic ways, but you never accounted for the government. Yes, lot's of people came in and it was indeed a green rush. Yes, more people grow, mm hmm. more dispensaries, certainly! yup, it's just a plant, with ya there. Grow it in your backyard? sure (can't help but wonder what all the fuss is about when people could just grow it in their backyard?) So, hey, being the generous guy that I am, I will grant ALL your points. Cool? Kewl!

So, now let's get to the governments cut, which don't ya know, they need more money now! So...... where were we on taxes at the local level and the state level? Taxes around 35%? Yeah, my eyes are getting red just thinking about how much cheaper pot will be now!

price impact right out of the gate, day 1

Marijuana Vote in Colorado Weighs 25% Tax for Recreation

Just two months before Colorado retailers begin selling marijuana for the first time in the U.S., voters will weigh in today on a 25 percent tax to help fund enforcement efforts intended to forestall federal intervention.

.....A nonpartisan voter guide compiled by the state’s legislative council estimates the taxes will bring in $67 million per year. About $27.5 million of this would go to school construction and $6 million to local governments, leaving $33.5 million for state regulators.

The 25 percent tax burden will come on top of local levies and a 2.9 percent state sales tax. A dozen municipalities are asking residents to vote on additional taxes on retail marijuana sales. If voters approve them, levies on cannabis could climb to as high as 35 percent in some areas.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-0 ... ation.html

Phatscotty wrote:So according to your points, weed would have to drop considerably in net price just to stay at the same shelf price at the store to account for the tax, right? Well, now it look's like weed will have to be totally free, because the IRS is taking the other 70% in taxes, sometimes more. Yeah, actually, can't grant you the one point about the hemp growers reaping the greatest rewards. But you can grant my point that the government would be the one reaping the most rewards, and that despite all your valid points, they don't amount to a hill of beans. Like I said and keep sayin, but nobody is hearin, decriminalization is the way to go. Legalization simply means weed will be taxed and taxed and taxed, regulated then regulated some more, and when any government anything needs more money (rare, i know...) the potheads will be the first one's stomped on every time.

"A lot of people think that the marijuana industry is just a license to print money," said Taylor West, deputy director of the National Cannabis Industry Association. "And it's just not the case."

West works for an association of more than 750 cannabis-related businesses across the United States, and says that 280E results in her clients paying more than 70% of their profits in taxes to the federal government.

Sometimes, the rates are far higher than that.

"A lot of times, instead of paying a tax rate that should be 30 to 40%, they are paying rates between 80 or 90%," Cornelius, the accountant, said. "I even have a client right now that is paying more than 100% effective tax rate."

Woolhiser is hoping that increased sales this year will make up for the loss he took last year — but he is still paying off his debt to the IRS.

"The problem is that we have passed laws that allowed these medical marijuana and recreational marijuana companies to do business," said Mac Clouse, a University of Denver finance professor who studies the industry. "But we have all these other laws, tax laws, federal laws that make it incredibly difficult if not utterly impossible to survive."

More states may legalize marijuana this year, but state laws don't change federal laws.

Voters in Oregon, Alaska, and Washington, D.C., will decide Tuesday whether to legalize the sale of recreational marijuana. But any new pot shops that voters approve may not be able to survive a drug war-era tax code that already threatens many businesses in Colorado and Washington state.

Under this tax code the federal government stands to make more money from the sale of marijuana than those legally selling it. And that could be enough to shut down many shops.

"It's almost like they want us to fail," said Mitch Woolhiser, while walking through his store called Northern Lights Cannabis Co. in Edgewater, Colo. "Everything I do is aimed at keeping us in business because if I don't, then (the feds) win.

Woolhiser first opened shop in 2010, selling medical marijuana. He started selling recreational pot when it became legal in Colorado at the start of this year. Last year, his business didn't earn a profit. Had he been selling anything but cannabis, he would not have owed federal income tax, as he ended up with a loss.

Instead, he ended up paying close to $20,000 to the IRS because of a 1980's tax code called 280E.

"I believe that the feds extend the drug war through 280E," said Jordan Cornelius, a Denver accountant who has worked with Woolhiser and many other marijuana companies in Colorado. "If (the federal government) can't put them out of business legally when voters are mandating these businesses to move forward, it's very easy to put them out of business financially."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /18165033/

Okay enough Foolishness from me. I mean, I guess that the reality pot shops can't make a profit and can't stay in business doesn't mean it's 100% certain they would do the most common sense thing and 'raise prices' of what their shops feature for sale, right? Hey maybe you have a bunch of great input here on how they can thrive like a gold rush whilst also consumers enjoying decreasing prices, like you said a year ago? Thanks in advance

Thus Spoke the Ghost of Minnesota Phats, reminding yall to keep fighting the good fight against the evil, fatcat, elitist, 1%, capitalist, greedy, pig oil companies and multinationals! Stay sharp my fellow countrymen!!

notyou2 wrote:You can't compare a tax versus a profit.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

mrswdk wrote:>marijuana industry legalized in some American states by democratic mandate
>American authorities continue trying to destroy it anyway

Yeah, that's one of the problems with having a strong federal government.

smegal69 wrote:

Funkyterrance wrote:

2dimes wrote:There's a reason it's called "weed". If it was legal it would probably be pretty easy to keep the price down.

Indeed.
They could mass produce the stuff which "grows like a weed" without fear of the law and the price would eventually plummet. Look at the manufacture of alcohol ; it's a pretty complicated/expensive process in comparison and is still relatively cheap.

yes i will grow like a weed, but do you enjoy smoking Mexican brick weed (can say i have but seen enough to know that i would not).

if you want good "weed" a lot of effort has to be put into it, trust me i know

Phatscotty wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

Nola_Lifer wrote:What scientist would you call in that cost 200k a year? This is a plant like any other crop that can be grown. Marijuana growers are as serious about their plants as tomato growers. There isn't that much regulation on growing a farm unless your trying to get certified organic. So scientist, laboratories and warehouses are out of the question unless you see marijuana grown on a large more corporate/industrial scale. Transportation won't be a problem either because of the proximity of growers to urban areas. Lets face it you can grow this shit in you back yard or in a closet at a very low cost. The people who will reap the most reward will be the hemp growers but this isn't what we are talking about.

The prices will most likely be the same, if anything they will drop. You will have lots of people treating this as a gold rush so more people will grow weed who weren't before, regardless of whether they smoke it or not. You will also see more dispensaries which probably won't be as regulated as most tobacco shops. You'll probably find that most tobacco shops will be ahead of the games due to the similar products.

At times it is better to say nothing at all then to make yourself look foolish over and over again.

mm hmmm, mm hmmm, oh? mm hmm, 1 year later, HI! Still here! Love it right? Hey, how about an update. Hope you have noticed, A LOT can change in a year, no? I'm still sticking with 'keep the government out of it', let's see how things look nowadays, shall we?

It's so real
It's How I Feel
I'm just straight ill
Ridin' my motorcycle down the streets
While the government is soundin' like strippers to me
They keep sayin' but I don't wanna hear it...

Oooh baby you want me?
Oooh baby you want me?
Oooh baby you want me?
Well you can get this lap dance here for free
Now you can get this lap dance here for free
Well you can get this lap dance here for free
Oooh baby you want me?
Now you can get this lap dance here for free N.E.R.D. - Lapdance

See Nola, you may be right in the most simplistic ways, but you never accounted for the government. Yes, lot's of people came in and it was indeed a green rush. Yes, more people grow, mm hmm. more dispensaries, certainly! yup, it's just a plant, with ya there. Grow it in your backyard? sure (can't help but wonder what all the fuss is about when people could just grow it in their backyard?) So, hey, being the generous guy that I am, I will grant ALL your points. Cool? Kewl!

So, now let's get to the governments cut, which don't ya know, they need more money now! So...... where were we on taxes at the local level and the state level? Taxes around 35%? Yeah, my eyes are getting red just thinking about how much cheaper pot will be now!

price impact right out of the gate, day 1

Marijuana Vote in Colorado Weighs 25% Tax for Recreation

Just two months before Colorado retailers begin selling marijuana for the first time in the U.S., voters will weigh in today on a 25 percent tax to help fund enforcement efforts intended to forestall federal intervention.

.....A nonpartisan voter guide compiled by the state’s legislative council estimates the taxes will bring in $67 million per year. About $27.5 million of this would go to school construction and $6 million to local governments, leaving $33.5 million for state regulators.

The 25 percent tax burden will come on top of local levies and a 2.9 percent state sales tax. A dozen municipalities are asking residents to vote on additional taxes on retail marijuana sales. If voters approve them, levies on cannabis could climb to as high as 35 percent in some areas.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-0 ... ation.html

Phatscotty wrote:So according to your points, weed would have to drop considerably in net price just to stay at the same shelf price at the store to account for the tax, right? Well, now it look's like weed will have to be totally free, because the IRS is taking the other 70% in taxes, sometimes more. Yeah, actually, can't grant you the one point about the hemp growers reaping the greatest rewards. But you can grant my point that the government would be the one reaping the most rewards, and that despite all your valid points, they don't amount to a hill of beans. Like I said and keep sayin, but nobody is hearin, decriminalization is the way to go. Legalization simply means weed will be taxed and taxed and taxed, regulated then regulated some more, and when any government anything needs more money (rare, i know...) the potheads will be the first one's stomped on every time.

"A lot of people think that the marijuana industry is just a license to print money," said Taylor West, deputy director of the National Cannabis Industry Association. "And it's just not the case."

West works for an association of more than 750 cannabis-related businesses across the United States, and says that 280E results in her clients paying more than 70% of their profits in taxes to the federal government.

Sometimes, the rates are far higher than that.

"A lot of times, instead of paying a tax rate that should be 30 to 40%, they are paying rates between 80 or 90%," Cornelius, the accountant, said. "I even have a client right now that is paying more than 100% effective tax rate."

Woolhiser is hoping that increased sales this year will make up for the loss he took last year — but he is still paying off his debt to the IRS.

"The problem is that we have passed laws that allowed these medical marijuana and recreational marijuana companies to do business," said Mac Clouse, a University of Denver finance professor who studies the industry. "But we have all these other laws, tax laws, federal laws that make it incredibly difficult if not utterly impossible to survive."

More states may legalize marijuana this year, but state laws don't change federal laws.

Voters in Oregon, Alaska, and Washington, D.C., will decide Tuesday whether to legalize the sale of recreational marijuana. But any new pot shops that voters approve may not be able to survive a drug war-era tax code that already threatens many businesses in Colorado and Washington state.

Under this tax code the federal government stands to make more money from the sale of marijuana than those legally selling it. And that could be enough to shut down many shops.

"It's almost like they want us to fail," said Mitch Woolhiser, while walking through his store called Northern Lights Cannabis Co. in Edgewater, Colo. "Everything I do is aimed at keeping us in business because if I don't, then (the feds) win.

Woolhiser first opened shop in 2010, selling medical marijuana. He started selling recreational pot when it became legal in Colorado at the start of this year. Last year, his business didn't earn a profit. Had he been selling anything but cannabis, he would not have owed federal income tax, as he ended up with a loss.

Instead, he ended up paying close to $20,000 to the IRS because of a 1980's tax code called 280E.

"I believe that the feds extend the drug war through 280E," said Jordan Cornelius, a Denver accountant who has worked with Woolhiser and many other marijuana companies in Colorado. "If (the federal government) can't put them out of business legally when voters are mandating these businesses to move forward, it's very easy to put them out of business financially."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /18165033/

Okay enough Foolishness from me. I mean, I guess that the reality pot shops can't make a profit and can't stay in business doesn't mean it's 100% certain they would do the most common sense thing and 'raise prices' of what their shops feature for sale, right? Hey maybe you have a bunch of great input here on how they can thrive like a gold rush whilst also consumers enjoying decreasing prices, like you said a year ago? Thanks in advance

Thus Spoke the Ghost of Minnesota Phats, reminding yall to keep fighting the good fight against the evil, fatcat, elitist, 1%, capitalist, greedy, pig oil companies and multinationals! Stay sharp my fellow countrymen!!

notyou2 wrote:You can't compare a tax versus a profit.

But you can be incorrect in opining oil companies reap huge profits from raping high gas prices, and you can be correct in understanding government taxation nets 24 times what an oil company earns on an average gallon of gasoline.

The statement you miss from the chart is the same point almost everyone else missed in the legalization of pot debate. "It's the government, Stupid!"

mrswdk wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

mrswdk wrote:>marijuana industry legalized in some American states by democratic mandate
>American authorities continue trying to destroy it anyway

Yeah, that's one of the problems with having a strong federal government.

Sounds like you need a system like China's, where the central government tells the local authorities what to do and the local authorities just ignore them.