Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

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Will it?

Yes
2
10%
Probably- it seems to be heading that way
4
20%
I don't know
3
15%
Probably not, but it seems like the most likely candidate
5
25%
No
3
15%
Kittens should be a state
3
15%
 
Total votes : 20

Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:49 pm

Think about the extra money Puerto Rico can ask for from the Federal Government. And think about them upsetting the balance of Conservatives/Liberals in Congress. The admission of new states was an agitator for the Civil War. This is an immense undertaking. It's exciting.
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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby muy_thaiguy on Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:52 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:Think about the extra money Puerto Rico can ask for from the Federal Government. And think about them upsetting the balance of Conservatives/Liberals in Congress. The admission of new states was an agitator for the Civil War. This is an immense undertaking. It's exciting.

Partly new states, and partly if they were abolitionist or pro-slavery to keep the balance (see Bloody Kansas for a good example).
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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:23 am

The Puerto Rican Democrats have a cheesy party song ...



... but the Republicans apparently just ripped off the medley to Waving Flag by Canadian pop sensation K'naan ...

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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:23 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:Think about the extra money Puerto Rico can ask for from the Federal Government. And think about them upsetting the balance of Conservatives/Liberals in Congress. The admission of new states was an agitator for the Civil War. This is an immense undertaking. It's exciting.


I'm not sure it would have much impact on Congress. On the one hand, Republicans have a stranglehold on Puerto Rico with super-majorities in both chambers of the legislature, but - on the other hand - the whole island probably wouldn't get more than 6-7 members of congress so it's doubtful Republicans would increase their hold on the U.S. House by a meaningful amount, though 2 Puerto Rican Senators could put the GOP over the top in the U.S. Senate.

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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby daddy1gringo on Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:01 pm

Nothing is going to happen.

First, the vote wasn't binding, and the people in La Fortaleza are the non-statehood people (for the status quo, which is known as the "ELA": Estado Libre Asociado: "Associated Free State"), who have clearly stated their intention not to proceed on it.

Second, statehood didn't really win. Read the description again. In the first question, the status quo got 46% compared to all possible changes combined. What lost to statehood 33 to 61 in the other question was something similar to the ELA, but more independent. The questions were gerrymandered to look like people overwhelmingly support statehood when they don't.

Consequently, the Populares have no real mandate to pursue statehood.

I have lived in Puerto Rico for the last 8 years+, and the "statehood vs. ELA" is really the only issue between the parties, besides whose candidate is the bigger desgraciado sinverguensa. It's about evenly divided between the "statehood" PNP ("Pe-Ne-Pe") and the "ELA" Populares. Any time the statehood people look like they may be getting ahead, all the Populares have to do is form an alliance with the Independentistas, who favor a complete break-away, and who have about 5% of the people backing them, give or take 2 or 3% at any given time.

Even if the PNP ever got their way and we petitioned for statehood, as has been mentioned, there is no guarantee that the US wants another state. It depends largely on which states would be losing representatives from the fixed number in Congress: if they have powerful reps, it will probably get bogged down and die.

A couple of random thoughts:

Statehood is probably not a good idea for PR as most Ricans who have a regular job couldn't afford federal income tax coming out of their checks.

On the other hand, it would be a good idea for the US because this is a great strategic place for military bases. "Rosie Roads" naval base and the Air Force base in Aguadilla all but closed down when Ricans protested the bombing practice on Vieques. I used to live in Groton, Connecticut and the Submarine base there has only remained open because Connecticut always has powerful Senators (Weiker, Ribicoff, Dodd Sr, Dodd Jr, Lieberman, etc.) It's a sucky place for a sub base. The subs have to get miles down a river past 2 bridges that could be turned into impassible barriers by a well-placed bomb. Even after they get out the mouth of the River they have to travel a long distance in Long Island Sound before they can submerge -- they're sitting ducks. Also, Navy people hate being stationed there because the weather sucks.

Puerto Rico, on the other hand has huge deep trenches right off the coast. I have whale-watched from the beach across the street from my house.
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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby jimboston on Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:04 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Good post. IMO, they should but they first really need to try to put together a clearer referendum. As I read the above, anywhere between 45%-61% support joining the United States which is a pretty wide margin.

Up until this election, given how well PRs right-wing party has done over their left-wing party recently, it would seem odd for Republicans in Congress to object to statehood. And Democrats wouldn't be able to object without alienating Hispanic voters.

If it is admitted, the Congress needs to enact an official languages law and establish English and Spanish as co-official national languages throughout the U.S., otherwise you risk turning establishing Puerto Rico as the official ghetto.


Corrected.
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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:11 am

Obama to Puerto Rico: "Drop Dead"

The White House declined to endorse a push by Puerto Rico to become the 51st state, saying that the results of the November referendum were not "clear" and should be studied.

Puerto Ricans voted by a 54 percent to 46 percent margin to end their current association as a self-governing U.S. commonwealth in November. In a separate follow-up question, 61 percent of Puerto Ricans choose statehood over full independence or semi-autonomy. But the Republican, pro-statehood governor Luis Fortuno also lost his reelection bid.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012 ... 50912.html
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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:57 am

Puerto Rico trying to get in, Texas trying to get out. Maybe there can be a deal that includes a country to be named later (The Virgin Islands?).
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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby HapSmo19 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:35 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
...61 percent of Puerto Ricans choose statehood over full independence or semi-autonomy.


Ah, so 61 percent are on welfare and/or gov employees.

They meet the criteria. Let's bring 'em in!
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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby Symmetry on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:56 pm

daddy1gringo wrote:Nothing is going to happen.

First, the vote wasn't binding, and the people in La Fortaleza are the non-statehood people (for the status quo, which is known as the "ELA": Estado Libre Asociado: "Associated Free State"), who have clearly stated their intention not to proceed on it.

Second, statehood didn't really win. Read the description again. In the first question, the status quo got 46% compared to all possible changes combined. What lost to statehood 33 to 61 in the other question was something similar to the ELA, but more independent. The questions were gerrymandered to look like people overwhelmingly support statehood when they don't.

Consequently, the Populares have no real mandate to pursue statehood.

I have lived in Puerto Rico for the last 8 years+, and the "statehood vs. ELA" is really the only issue between the parties, besides whose candidate is the bigger desgraciado sinverguensa. It's about evenly divided between the "statehood" PNP ("Pe-Ne-Pe") and the "ELA" Populares. Any time the statehood people look like they may be getting ahead, all the Populares have to do is form an alliance with the Independentistas, who favor a complete break-away, and who have about 5% of the people backing them, give or take 2 or 3% at any given time.

Even if the PNP ever got their way and we petitioned for statehood, as has been mentioned, there is no guarantee that the US wants another state. It depends largely on which states would be losing representatives from the fixed number in Congress: if they have powerful reps, it will probably get bogged down and die.

A couple of random thoughts:

Statehood is probably not a good idea for PR as most Ricans who have a regular job couldn't afford federal income tax coming out of their checks.

On the other hand, it would be a good idea for the US because this is a great strategic place for military bases. "Rosie Roads" naval base and the Air Force base in Aguadilla all but closed down when Ricans protested the bombing practice on Vieques. I used to live in Groton, Connecticut and the Submarine base there has only remained open because Connecticut always has powerful Senators (Weiker, Ribicoff, Dodd Sr, Dodd Jr, Lieberman, etc.) It's a sucky place for a sub base. The subs have to get miles down a river past 2 bridges that could be turned into impassible barriers by a well-placed bomb. Even after they get out the mouth of the River they have to travel a long distance in Long Island Sound before they can submerge -- they're sitting ducks. Also, Navy people hate being stationed there because the weather sucks.

Puerto Rico, on the other hand has huge deep trenches right off the coast. I have whale-watched from the beach across the street from my house.


Great post, thanks for the info. I guess I can only ask your opinion on the hypothetical, what if there was a push from within the current states, specifically the Republican party, for Puerto Rico to become a state. It is, from what I can tell, fairly conservative and would do a fair bit to help the party on it's Hispanic credentials without dealing with the immigration issues.

I know that's a big hypothetical, but it seemed like an interesting option, and I'd be interested on your take if statehood had major mainland support.
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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby Viceroy63 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:06 am

Wow! Puerto Rico to become a State. That's cause for celebrating....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFzyYYZsxGc
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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby daddy1gringo on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Symmetry wrote:I guess I can only ask your opinion on the hypothetical, what if there was a push from within the current states, specifically the Republican party, for Puerto Rico to become a state. It is, from what I can tell, fairly conservative and would do a fair bit to help the party on it's Hispanic credentials without dealing with the immigration issues.

I know that's a big hypothetical, but it seemed like an interesting option, and I'd be interested on your take if statehood had major mainland support.

I don't think it would make much difference. The ones who care most what the U.S. thinks are already pro-statehood (the PNP, basically aligned with the Republicans). The ones who are for more independent statuses (stati?), namely the existing ELA, complete independence, or something in between, their thing is "Puerto Rican Pride", and they would probably be either indifferent to, or offended by U.S. attempts to influence or force them into statehood. The split would stay about 50/50.
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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby Viceroy63 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:43 pm

When we really simplify this whole issue we can relate this to a relationship between a man and his girlfriend. Or Friends with benefits. =) The US certainly does gain something from having PR as a territory but not as a state. There is just no love there.

For one thing, no one like's being told what to do and Puerto Rican's are no different. For Puerto Rican's to be told that they can not live the way that they have been accustomed to is an invitation to Civil war. For example; People still claim land here and build their own houses. The government (USA) even supplies the building materials.

There are no restrictions except in the rich part of the country and no inspections except to comply with established codes. I built my own home on land that I claimed and did the plumbing and the wiring and only had to comply with the electric company safety evaluation. That was it. That's because I wanted to be legal as far as power is concerned. As for water all you do is send in a check for $10 a month of water usage and even if you don't have a meter you are all good to go. No problem. But I am neither a construction worker or carpenter, nor plumber or electrician. I am just able to do my best with the little knowledge that I possess and no one can tell me that I can't do it on this Island.

The point is that if Puerto Rican's are told that they can't live like this anymore then half of the Island would be homeless as a great majority of the people live up in the mountains and valleys and on the other side of the Island. A good lot of them simply tap into established power lines and water ducts. So how do you make a people like everyone else in the USA but let them keep their Ancient Voodoo magic at the same time? If you Let Puerto Rico get away with it then all the states will push or may push for special exempts. And what if Jews want to build a temple in New York to sacrifice sheep's and goats to the Lord?

Also you have to keep in mind that Puerto Rican's are basically Hillbillies at heart and are not in general sophisticated or worldly. We are catching up but basically still a generation away from the rest of the world. What happens when you give a hillbilly the right to bear arms? Ever hear of the Hatfields and the McCoy's? You can't treat Puerto Rico like you can other culture's who are some what more mature. Puerto Rican's enjoy a good party like anyone else but take that away from us and it's clobbering time. That reminds me that we recently dedicated a national holiday after a boxer, "Tito" a few years back. One more day to stay home and party. You just try and take that "Tito" day away from us and put us to work if we don't want to?!

No way is Puerto Rico going to become a State any time soon unless we get our cake and get to eat it also. With beer, dancing and loud music. =)
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Re: Will Puerto Rico be the next US State?

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:56 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:Also you have to keep in mind that Puerto Rican's are basically Hillbillies at heart and are not in general sophisticated or worldly.

I heard they just got the telegraph!

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