Conquer Club

MegaProphet wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

MegaProphet wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

Nola_Lifer wrote:Yes, idolize the robber barons who held monopolizes, exploited workers and the government for profit. One of the reasons we are in the mess we are in.

....and also vastly improved Nola's Life, and every person Nola knows life as well.....

"BASTARDS!"

Are you not grateful for Rockefeller, Carnegie, Edison, Morgan, Tesla, Westinghouse, Vanderbilt, Ford?

Did the show feature Tesla? Maybe I will have to watch it

ummmmmmmmmmmmmm? Yes.....why would that compel you to watch it, but nothing else?

Electricity is definitely one of the most important building blocks of modern America. Tesla invented AC, afterall... and he certainly is one of the men who helped to build America

I just really like Tesla

You might really enjoy this then...

Phatscotty wrote:btw, John Adams also said...

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

In the time of John Adams, it was universally recognized by religious people that morality and religion are basically synonymous. We now have learned better than this.

Metsfanmax wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:btw, John Adams also said...

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

In the time of John Adams, it was universally recognized by religious people that morality and religion are basically synonymous. We now have learned better than this.

How is the current state of moral confusion better?

Phatscotty wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:btw, John Adams also said...

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

In the time of John Adams, it was universally recognized by religious people that morality and religion are basically synonymous. We now have learned better than this.

How is the current state of moral confusion better?

Well, no one promised that the transition would be smooth. You can't force people to give up on old ideas (some a century old, some a millennium old) overnight, but that doesn't make the underlying reality change. We as a society have already fundamentally given up on such ideas as the absolute sanctity of life, it's just taking a while for people to come to terms with it.

Phatscotty wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:btw, John Adams also said...

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

In the time of John Adams, it was universally recognized by religious people that morality and religion are basically synonymous. We now have learned better than this.

How is the current state of moral confusion better?

What moral confusion?

Metsfanmax wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:btw, John Adams also said...

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

In the time of John Adams, it was universally recognized by religious people that morality and religion are basically synonymous. We now have learned better than this.

How is the current state of moral confusion better?

Well, no one promised that the transition would be smooth. You can't force people to give up on old ideas (some a century old, some a millennium old) overnight, but that doesn't make the underlying reality change. We as a society have already fundamentally given up on such ideas as the absolute sanctity of life, it's just taking a while for people to come to terms with it.

How many more school shootings will we have to tolerate until the transition to the values of the counter-culture is complete?

Phatscotty wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:btw, John Adams also said...

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

In the time of John Adams, it was universally recognized by religious people that morality and religion are basically synonymous. We now have learned better than this.

How is the current state of moral confusion better?

Well, no one promised that the transition would be smooth. You can't force people to give up on old ideas (some a century old, some a millennium old) overnight, but that doesn't make the underlying reality change. We as a society have already fundamentally given up on such ideas as the absolute sanctity of life, it's just taking a while for people to come to terms with it.

How many more school shootings will we have to tolerate until the transition to the values of the counter-culture is complete?

School shootings,tragic as they are don't begin to compare with the barbarity of the late 19th century which you appear to imagine was so much better than now.You would need a Columbine every day for a decade to approach the cowardly and greedy genocide of the Plains Indians by the invading Americans during this glorious time.

chang50 wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:btw, John Adams also said...

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

How is the current state of moral confusion better?

Well, no one promised that the transition would be smooth. You can't force people to give up on old ideas (some a century old, some a millennium old) overnight, but that doesn't make the underlying reality change. We as a society have already fundamentally given up on such ideas as the absolute sanctity of life, it's just taking a while for people to come to terms with it.

How many more school shootings will we have to tolerate until the transition to the values of the counter-culture is complete?

School shootings,tragic as they are don't begin to compare with the barbarity of the late 19th century which you appear to imagine was so much better than now.You would need a Columbine every day for a decade to approach the cowardly and greedy genocide of the Plains Indians by the invading Americans during this glorious time.

so, basically, school shootings are comparable to the human instinct to expand and the human desire for vengeance?

School shootings happen because some kids don't know right from wrong, because there is no longer any sanctity of life. nothing has meaning, there is no black and white, morals are no longer taught, no longer allowed to be taught. We have failed to teach and raise those children properly and with values and culture.

In the 19th century in America, children brought their guns to school for show and tell (if you are at all interested in a relevant comparison)

Well, no one promised that the transition would be smooth. You can't force people to give up on old ideas (some a century old, some a millennium old) overnight, but that doesn't make the underlying reality change. We as a society have already fundamentally given up on such ideas as the absolute sanctity of life, it's just taking a while for people to come to terms with it.[/quote]

How many more school shootings will we have to tolerate until the transition to the values of the counter-culture is complete?[/quote]

School shootings,tragic as they are don't begin to compare with the barbarity of the late 19th century which you appear to imagine was so much better than now.You would need a Columbine every day for a decade to approach the cowardly and greedy genocide of the Plains Indians by the invading Americans during this glorious time.[/quote]

so, basically, school shootings are comparable to the human instinct to expand and the human desire for vengeance?

School shootings happen because some kids don't know right from wrong, because there is no longer any sanctity of life. nothing has meaning, there is no black and white, morals are no longer taught, no longer allowed to be taught. We have failed to teach and raise those children properly and with values and culture.

In the 19th century in America, children brought their guns to school for show and tell (if you are at all interested in a relevant comparison)[/quote]

Did the perpetrators of the massacres of native American women and children respect the sanctity of life,or know right from wrong?This was no golden age...

Phatscotty wrote:School shootings happen because some kids don't know right from wrong, because there is no longer any sanctity of life. nothing has meaning, there is no black and white, morals are no longer taught, no longer allowed to be taught. We have failed to teach and raise those children properly and with values and culture.

You're probably right, if we just sternly tell these kids "shooting innocent people is wrong, m'kay," I'm sure they'll stop.

Society as a whole is fucked. I feel like I'm living in a science fiction novel like 1984. Reality is nothing mord than people telling you this is the way it is and has been.
Like the Easter bung is real or Santa clause has anything to do with Jesus. Hell Jesus wasn't even born in December. Point being is that this show is suger coated with a little of this and a little of that to make you see their perspective.

Santa Claus is a Christian saint, just thought I'd throw that in to the mix. Carry on.

Phatscotty wrote:

MegaProphet wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

MegaProphet wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

Nola_Lifer wrote:Yes, idolize the robber barons who held monopolizes, exploited workers and the government for profit. One of the reasons we are in the mess we are in.

....and also vastly improved Nola's Life, and every person Nola knows life as well.....

"BASTARDS!"

Are you not grateful for Rockefeller, Carnegie, Edison, Morgan, Tesla, Westinghouse, Vanderbilt, Ford?

Did the show feature Tesla? Maybe I will have to watch it

ummmmmmmmmmmmmm? Yes.....why would that compel you to watch it, but nothing else?

Electricity is definitely one of the most important building blocks of modern America. Tesla invented AC, afterall... and he certainly is one of the men who helped to build America

I just really like Tesla

You might really enjoy this then...

Thanks, I'll take a look

Phatscotty wrote:so, basically, school shootings are comparable to the human instinct to expand and the human desire for vengeance?

What vengeance was that? Indians shooting European settlers? Might want to re think that one.

School shootings happen because some kids don't know right from wrong, because there is no longer any sanctity of life. nothing has meaning, there is no black and white, morals are no longer taught, no longer allowed to be taught. We have failed to teach and raise those children properly and with values and culture.

In the 19th century in America, children brought their guns to school for show and tell (if you are at all interested in a relevant comparison)

Out of context. High school kids shooting people is a sign of some mental issues, and not whether you morally sounds or not. In what reality do you live?

morality is in the eye of the beholder. a person who has alot of sexual partners may think thats normal as did the spartans who threw babies off a cliff cause they didnt measure up. we now live in a world that has very few rights and wrongs.. its ok for a soldier to kill people but its wrong if a civilian does it no matter what the reason may be. hell i cant even get rear ended in my car without me being responsible for 10% of the accident. i think thats wrong and immoral for my premium to go up but thats not the way the insurance company sees it..

Nola_Lifer wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:so, basically, school shootings are comparable to the human instinct to expand and the human desire for vengeance?

What vengeance was that? Indians shooting European settlers? Might want to re think that one.

Maybe you want to think about if an Indian ever shot a European?

Nola_Lifer wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:so, basically, school shootings are comparable to the human instinct to expand and the human desire for vengeance?

What vengeance was that? Indians shooting European settlers? Might want to re think that one.

School shootings happen because some kids don't know right from wrong, because there is no longer any sanctity of life. nothing has meaning, there is no black and white, morals are no longer taught, no longer allowed to be taught. We have failed to teach and raise those children properly and with values and culture.

In the 19th century in America, children brought their guns to school for show and tell (if you are at all interested in a relevant comparison)

Out of context. High school kids shooting people is a sign of some mental issues, and not whether you morally sounds or not. In what reality do you live?

I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.

Hold the phone...

Pretty sure kids are taught that murder is wrong. Every child I know from my niece to the kids I see at the local supermarket get it drilled into them that hurting others is wrong.

You seem to be giving us an unwarranted label of a morally corrupt society when really its just regular old poor parenting (which has existed since the dawn of time).

I'd probably agree that "kid these days" have less respect for things in general; but again I link that back to the parenting they are receiving. Now if you want to discuss the reasons why parents, on average, seem to be worse "these days" I'm happy to have that discussion.

Lootifer wrote:Hold the phone...

Pretty sure kids are taught that murder is wrong.

How is that taught? I mean, in what way?

Your bait is about as subtle as a brick. Can you at least just be forthright for once?

Some facts before we get started:
- Perfectly moral kids can be raised by both old fashioned parenting (corperal punishment, strict religious environment) and modern liberal parenting (focus on positive reinforcement, firm but relaxed discipline)
- Perfectly psychopathic disrespectful nutjobs can be raised by old fashioned parenting and modern liberal parenting

The difference comes down largely to parenting knowledge and "skill". Like I say corperal punishment can turn out perfectly fine kids if applied correctly; it can also cause some serious harm to them when applied poorly. Same on the flipside; super-nanny or whatever her name is got famous for helping undisciplined rascals into angels, however, once again, poor application of positive reinforcment and non-corperal punishments will turn out menaces.

Same applies to schools and other forms of education.

Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.

Are you claiming that teaching kids strict Christian values decreases violence?

Do you believe society was less violent in the past? Specifically when? 1800? 1900?

Haggis_McMutton wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.

Are you claiming that teaching kids strict Christian values decreases violence?

Do you believe society was less violent in the past? Specifically when? 1800? 1900?

probably just the part about murder. Does not need to include an entire religion with 1,900 denominations

Society was more violent in some ways, less violent in some ways, with many things to consider.

Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.

Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.

Metsfanmax wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.

Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.

...so says an actual Nazi