The Men Who Built America (History Channel Series..lol)

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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby warmonger1981 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:14 am

Society as a whole is fucked. I feel like I'm living in a science fiction novel like 1984. Reality is nothing mord than people telling you this is the way it is and has been.
Like the Easter bung is real or Santa clause has anything to do with Jesus. Hell Jesus wasn't even born in December. Point being is that this show is suger coated with a little of this and a little of that to make you see their perspective.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Symmetry on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:20 am

Santa Claus is a Christian saint, just thought I'd throw that in to the mix. Carry on.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby MegaProphet on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:23 am

Phatscotty wrote:
MegaProphet wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
MegaProphet wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Nola_Lifer wrote:Yes, idolize the robber barons who held monopolizes, exploited workers and the government for profit. One of the reasons we are in the mess we are in.


....and also vastly improved Nola's Life, and every person Nola knows life as well.....

"BASTARDS!"

Are you not grateful for Rockefeller, Carnegie, Edison, Morgan, Tesla, Westinghouse, Vanderbilt, Ford?

Did the show feature Tesla? Maybe I will have to watch it


ummmmmmmmmmmmmm? Yes.....why would that compel you to watch it, but nothing else?

Electricity is definitely one of the most important building blocks of modern America. Tesla invented AC, afterall... and he certainly is one of the men who helped to build America

I just really like Tesla


You might really enjoy this then...


Thanks, I'll take a look
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Nola_Lifer on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:44 am

Phatscotty wrote:so, basically, school shootings are comparable to the human instinct to expand and the human desire for vengeance?


What vengeance was that? Indians shooting European settlers? Might want to re think that one.

School shootings happen because some kids don't know right from wrong, because there is no longer any sanctity of life. nothing has meaning, there is no black and white, morals are no longer taught, no longer allowed to be taught. We have failed to teach and raise those children properly and with values and culture.

In the 19th century in America, children brought their guns to school for show and tell (if you are at all interested in a relevant comparison)


Out of context. High school kids shooting people is a sign of some mental issues, and not whether you morally sounds or not. In what reality do you live?
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby warmonger1981 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:33 pm

morality is in the eye of the beholder. a person who has alot of sexual partners may think thats normal as did the spartans who threw babies off a cliff cause they didnt measure up. we now live in a world that has very few rights and wrongs.. its ok for a soldier to kill people but its wrong if a civilian does it no matter what the reason may be. hell i cant even get rear ended in my car without me being responsible for 10% of the accident. i think thats wrong and immoral for my premium to go up but thats not the way the insurance company sees it..
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:55 pm

Nola_Lifer wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:so, basically, school shootings are comparable to the human instinct to expand and the human desire for vengeance?


What vengeance was that? Indians shooting European settlers? Might want to re think that one.


Maybe you want to think about if an Indian ever shot a European?
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:57 pm

Nola_Lifer wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:so, basically, school shootings are comparable to the human instinct to expand and the human desire for vengeance?


What vengeance was that? Indians shooting European settlers? Might want to re think that one.

School shootings happen because some kids don't know right from wrong, because there is no longer any sanctity of life. nothing has meaning, there is no black and white, morals are no longer taught, no longer allowed to be taught. We have failed to teach and raise those children properly and with values and culture.

In the 19th century in America, children brought their guns to school for show and tell (if you are at all interested in a relevant comparison)


Out of context. High school kids shooting people is a sign of some mental issues, and not whether you morally sounds or not. In what reality do you live?


I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Lootifer on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:10 pm

Hold the phone...

Pretty sure kids are taught that murder is wrong. Every child I know from my niece to the kids I see at the local supermarket get it drilled into them that hurting others is wrong.

You seem to be giving us an unwarranted label of a morally corrupt society when really its just regular old poor parenting (which has existed since the dawn of time).

I'd probably agree that "kid these days" have less respect for things in general; but again I link that back to the parenting they are receiving. Now if you want to discuss the reasons why parents, on average, seem to be worse "these days" I'm happy to have that discussion.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:14 pm

Lootifer wrote:Hold the phone...

Pretty sure kids are taught that murder is wrong.


How is that taught? I mean, in what way?
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:23 pm

"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Lootifer on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:28 pm

Your bait is about as subtle as a brick. Can you at least just be forthright for once?

Some facts before we get started:
- Perfectly moral kids can be raised by both old fashioned parenting (corperal punishment, strict religious environment) and modern liberal parenting (focus on positive reinforcement, firm but relaxed discipline)
- Perfectly psychopathic disrespectful nutjobs can be raised by old fashioned parenting and modern liberal parenting

The difference comes down largely to parenting knowledge and "skill". Like I say corperal punishment can turn out perfectly fine kids if applied correctly; it can also cause some serious harm to them when applied poorly. Same on the flipside; super-nanny or whatever her name is got famous for helping undisciplined rascals into angels, however, once again, poor application of positive reinforcment and non-corperal punishments will turn out menaces.

Same applies to schools and other forms of education.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Haggis_McMutton on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:33 pm

Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Are you claiming that teaching kids strict Christian values decreases violence?

Do you believe society was less violent in the past? Specifically when? 1800? 1900?
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:34 pm

Haggis_McMutton wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Are you claiming that teaching kids strict Christian values decreases violence?

Do you believe society was less violent in the past? Specifically when? 1800? 1900?


probably just the part about murder. Does not need to include an entire religion with 1,900 denominations

Society was more violent in some ways, less violent in some ways, with many things to consider.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:20 pm

Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:38 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.


...so says an actual Nazi
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:41 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.


Why don't I? Is it really that hard for you to accept the more that something is taught and reinforced, the more it will have been learned?
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Re: The Men Who Built America (History Channel Series..lol)

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:44 pm

"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Neoteny on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:45 pm

AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
MegaProphet wrote:I might watch it, but I rather see the Story of All of Us

Image


Indeed that's the story of every country, the story of all of us.

Every country has held slaves and battled with indiginous peeps.


Some more than others.

In any case, the indiginous peeps in our case, were more slaughtered by the black plague than they were us. As in all other countries with "indiginous peeps" they would most likely have a massive presence, if not have kept the invaders out, if it were not for the plague having something like an 80% mortality rate with Native Americans.

By the way phatty...the use of the phrase; "battled with indiginous peeps"... makes you a POS :D

I hope you someday get to be that type of peep.


FWIW, I believe you meant "smallpox" instead of "plague."
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:09 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.


Why don't I? Is it really that hard for you to accept the more that something is taught and reinforced, the more it will have been learned?


When it comes to the topic of murder -- yes. I think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong; that idea runs through our society. People already know that murder is basically the ultimate evil. Constantly telling them that can't make them know it any more, and it doesn't do anything to change the completely external reasons why things like school shootings happen. If you want to stop them from happening, you either need to take away the weapons, or find a way to stop the motivating factors.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby AAFitz on Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:07 pm

Neoteny wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
MegaProphet wrote:I might watch it, but I rather see the Story of All of Us

Image


Indeed that's the story of every country, the story of all of us.

Every country has held slaves and battled with indiginous peeps.


Some more than others.

In any case, the indiginous peeps in our case, were more slaughtered by the black plague than they were us. As in all other countries with "indiginous peeps" they would most likely have a massive presence, if not have kept the invaders out, if it were not for the plague having something like an 80% mortality rate with Native Americans.

By the way phatty...the use of the phrase; "battled with indiginous peeps"... makes you a POS :D

I hope you someday get to be that type of peep.


FWIW, I believe you meant "smallpox" instead of "plague."


I was misled by this: I assumed by "the plague" they meant the black one, not the small one. My bad, and thanks for that info.

Just two years before the pilgrims started the tape recorder on New England's written history, the plague wiped out about 96 percent of the Indians in Massachusetts.

In the years before the plague turned America into The Stand, a sailor named Giovanni da Verrazzano sailed up the East Coast and described it as "densely populated" and so "smoky with Indian bonfires" that you could smell them burning hundreds of miles out at sea. Using your history books to understand what America was like in the 100 years after Columbus landed there is like trying to understand what modern day Manhattan is like based on the post-apocalyptic scenes from I Am Legend.


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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:09 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.


Why don't I? Is it really that hard for you to accept the more that something is taught and reinforced, the more it will have been learned?


When it comes to the topic of murder -- yes. I think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong; that idea runs through our society. People already know that murder is basically the ultimate evil. Constantly telling them that can't make them know it any more, and it doesn't do anything to change the completely external reasons why things like school shootings happen. If you want to stop them from happening, you either need to take away the weapons, or find a way to stop the motivating factors.


Fascinating. Why do you think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong? Is that it, "just cuz it's wrong"?

Do you think the reality that the first Commandment is "thou shall not murder" has something to do with it?

Does the same apply for math? or any other subject or field or perspective? "I know math, so constantly studying math doesn't change anything"?
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:54 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Fascinating. Why do you think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong? Is that it, "just cuz it's wrong"?


I think murder is wrong, and I don't particularly care what the "first commandment" is. How do you explain me?
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Re: The Men Who Built America (History Channel Series..lol)

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:05 pm

I have some semi-related questions that I really don't need answers to.

- Will the Turks, Germans, or Italians be paying me reparations (no drachma please)?
- Will the Romans?
- Is the per capita murder rate greater now than it was in 1790? Why?

I will check out the show if only because the History Channel so rarely has history on it.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:03 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Fascinating. Why do you think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong? Is that it, "just cuz it's wrong"?


I think murder is wrong, and I don't particularly care what the "first commandment" is. How do you explain me?


How do you know murder is wrong?
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:10 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Fascinating. Why do you think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong? Is that it, "just cuz it's wrong"?


I think murder is wrong, and I don't particularly care what the "first commandment" is. How do you explain me?


How do you know murder is wrong?


One can construct such a principle through Kant's categorical imperative, or any equivalent universalizing principle of ethics. Simply put, I would not want to be murdered, so I do not murder others. It is the golden rule.
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