The Men Who Built America (History Channel Series..lol)

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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:41 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.


Why don't I? Is it really that hard for you to accept the more that something is taught and reinforced, the more it will have been learned?
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Re: The Men Who Built America (History Channel Series..lol)

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:44 pm

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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Neoteny on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:45 pm

AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
MegaProphet wrote:I might watch it, but I rather see the Story of All of Us

Image


Indeed that's the story of every country, the story of all of us.

Every country has held slaves and battled with indiginous peeps.


Some more than others.

In any case, the indiginous peeps in our case, were more slaughtered by the black plague than they were us. As in all other countries with "indiginous peeps" they would most likely have a massive presence, if not have kept the invaders out, if it were not for the plague having something like an 80% mortality rate with Native Americans.

By the way phatty...the use of the phrase; "battled with indiginous peeps"... makes you a POS :D

I hope you someday get to be that type of peep.


FWIW, I believe you meant "smallpox" instead of "plague."
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:09 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.


Why don't I? Is it really that hard for you to accept the more that something is taught and reinforced, the more it will have been learned?


When it comes to the topic of murder -- yes. I think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong; that idea runs through our society. People already know that murder is basically the ultimate evil. Constantly telling them that can't make them know it any more, and it doesn't do anything to change the completely external reasons why things like school shootings happen. If you want to stop them from happening, you either need to take away the weapons, or find a way to stop the motivating factors.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby AAFitz on Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:07 pm

Neoteny wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
MegaProphet wrote:I might watch it, but I rather see the Story of All of Us

Image


Indeed that's the story of every country, the story of all of us.

Every country has held slaves and battled with indiginous peeps.


Some more than others.

In any case, the indiginous peeps in our case, were more slaughtered by the black plague than they were us. As in all other countries with "indiginous peeps" they would most likely have a massive presence, if not have kept the invaders out, if it were not for the plague having something like an 80% mortality rate with Native Americans.

By the way phatty...the use of the phrase; "battled with indiginous peeps"... makes you a POS :D

I hope you someday get to be that type of peep.


FWIW, I believe you meant "smallpox" instead of "plague."


I was misled by this: I assumed by "the plague" they meant the black one, not the small one. My bad, and thanks for that info.

Just two years before the pilgrims started the tape recorder on New England's written history, the plague wiped out about 96 percent of the Indians in Massachusetts.

In the years before the plague turned America into The Stand, a sailor named Giovanni da Verrazzano sailed up the East Coast and described it as "densely populated" and so "smoky with Indian bonfires" that you could smell them burning hundreds of miles out at sea. Using your history books to understand what America was like in the 100 years after Columbus landed there is like trying to understand what modern day Manhattan is like based on the post-apocalyptic scenes from I Am Legend.


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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:09 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.


Why don't I? Is it really that hard for you to accept the more that something is taught and reinforced, the more it will have been learned?


When it comes to the topic of murder -- yes. I think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong; that idea runs through our society. People already know that murder is basically the ultimate evil. Constantly telling them that can't make them know it any more, and it doesn't do anything to change the completely external reasons why things like school shootings happen. If you want to stop them from happening, you either need to take away the weapons, or find a way to stop the motivating factors.


Fascinating. Why do you think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong? Is that it, "just cuz it's wrong"?

Do you think the reality that the first Commandment is "thou shall not murder" has something to do with it?

Does the same apply for math? or any other subject or field or perspective? "I know math, so constantly studying math doesn't change anything"?
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:54 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Fascinating. Why do you think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong? Is that it, "just cuz it's wrong"?


I think murder is wrong, and I don't particularly care what the "first commandment" is. How do you explain me?
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Re: The Men Who Built America (History Channel Series..lol)

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:05 pm

I have some semi-related questions that I really don't need answers to.

- Will the Turks, Germans, or Italians be paying me reparations (no drachma please)?
- Will the Romans?
- Is the per capita murder rate greater now than it was in 1790? Why?

I will check out the show if only because the History Channel so rarely has history on it.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:03 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Fascinating. Why do you think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong? Is that it, "just cuz it's wrong"?


I think murder is wrong, and I don't particularly care what the "first commandment" is. How do you explain me?


How do you know murder is wrong?
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:10 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Fascinating. Why do you think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong? Is that it, "just cuz it's wrong"?


I think murder is wrong, and I don't particularly care what the "first commandment" is. How do you explain me?


How do you know murder is wrong?


One can construct such a principle through Kant's categorical imperative, or any equivalent universalizing principle of ethics. Simply put, I would not want to be murdered, so I do not murder others. It is the golden rule.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Symmetry on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:10 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.


...so says an actual Nazi


That's kind of a crazy accusation, even by your weird standards.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:50 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Fascinating. Why do you think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong? Is that it, "just cuz it's wrong"?


I think murder is wrong, and I don't particularly care what the "first commandment" is. How do you explain me?


How do you know murder is wrong?


One can construct such a principle through Kant's categorical imperative, or any equivalent universalizing principle of ethics. Simply put, I would not want to be murdered, so I do not murder others. It is the golden rule.


What were Kant's ideas influenced by?
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:52 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.


...so says an actual Nazi


That's kind of a crazy accusation, even by your weird standards.


yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Nazism is a socialist party, and they weren't afraid to use force to hammer their politics and philosophies onto other people.......Mets is right up that alley pal (as one of the hardest left posters we have here). He might even admit he is a Socialist.

You're a hypocrite
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:01 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Fascinating. Why do you think people generally rationally know that murder is wrong? Is that it, "just cuz it's wrong"?


I think murder is wrong, and I don't particularly care what the "first commandment" is. How do you explain me?


How do you know murder is wrong?


One can construct such a principle through Kant's categorical imperative, or any equivalent universalizing principle of ethics. Simply put, I would not want to be murdered, so I do not murder others. It is the golden rule.


What were Kant's ideas influenced by?


Kant was the one of the first, if not the first, to recognize that this idea is independent of moral system; for an ethical argument to truly say something of importance, it must be universalizable. The categorical imperative is based on the requirement that a moral system must have universal characteristics. Since Kant, many deontological and utilitarian philosophers alike have made this a requirement of their ethics.

This has nothing to do with any particular moral system. The difficult part of ethics is deciding which universal rules we want to follow, in particular. Fortunately, the rule that we don't murder adult humans is an easy one that nearly everyone agrees to, religious or not.

Incidentally, it's not particularly easy to make the argument that Kant was in any way a traditional Christian, so I wouldn't go that way if I were you.
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Re: The Men Who Built America

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:04 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I live in the reality that when schools are not allowed to teach "you should not murder" you are going to have more killings than if children were taught, universally, that murdering is wrong.


Then you don't actually live in reality.

This, of course, comes as no surprise to off topic regulars.


...so says an actual Nazi


That's kind of a crazy accusation, even by your weird standards.


yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Nazism is a socialist party, and they weren't afraid to use force to hammer their politics and philosophies onto other people.......Mets is right up that alley pal (as one of the hardest left posters we have here). He might even admit he is a Socialist.

You're a hypocrite


Really now? Nazism is an example of socialism? Please, tell me more.

Also, this may surprise you, but there are in fact variants of socialism that do not take racial superiority of one particular ethnic group as a central tenet of their ideas.
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