Unions Shut Down Hostess

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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby HapSmo19 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:35 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:Bailouts obviously are not the answer but there ought to be some sort of program that specifically relocates workers such as these into another job of relatively equal prosperity. This program should be payed for by the taxpayers.

Suck balls(if you're not already).
Their union can pay for it.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:38 pm

HapSmo19 wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:Bailouts obviously are not the answer but there ought to be some sort of program that specifically relocates workers such as these into another job of relatively equal prosperity. This program should be payed for by the taxpayers.

Suck balls(if you're not already).
Their union can pay for it.


Your problem with this is what exactly? Not that I am expecting an especially substantive response, considering your above quote.
Frankly the unions are not to be trusted with this responsibility as they aren't exactly the model of efficiency.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby patches70 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:41 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
Frankly the unions are not to be trusted with this responsibility as they aren't exactly the model of efficiency.


If "with this responsibility" you mean finding a person a job,
why shouldn't it just be the individual's responsibility to find themselves a job?
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:12 pm

patches70 wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:
Frankly the unions are not to be trusted with this responsibility as they aren't exactly the model of efficiency.


If "with this responsibility" you mean finding a person a job,
why shouldn't it just be the individual's responsibility to find themselves a job?


I mentioned this earlier but the time frame between when someone loses their job and when they get another comparable one can make a world of difference. Someone out of work is not helping themselves nor the economy. Why not have a system in place to make this transition as efficient as possible?
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby patches70 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:38 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
patches70 wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:
Frankly the unions are not to be trusted with this responsibility as they aren't exactly the model of efficiency.


If "with this responsibility" you mean finding a person a job,
why shouldn't it just be the individual's responsibility to find themselves a job?


I mentioned this earlier but the time frame between when someone loses their job and when they get another comparable one can make a world of difference. Someone out of work is not helping themselves nor the economy. Why not have a system in place to make this transition as efficient as possible?


<sigh>, the problem is, take Hostess for example, 18,000 workers just got laid off. That's 18,000 with the same skill sets competing for a finite number of jobs.

What happens when you get a massive burst of a product in a static market?

The cost of the product decreases.
In the case of these workers, the ones who get the same jobs in their respective fields are the ones who will be willing to take less money.
That's why it's up to the individual to get some skills beyond their current ones. There are plenty of programs already in place for this, but it's up to the individual to actually go out and learn new things.
Not to mention, they all lost their jobs and it's apparent that there are too many workers for that particular field for what the economic realities are as to the demand for the products that are being produced. There can only be but so many bakers and drivers and such.

The existing companies will expand, eventually (hopefully), but that's not immediate. Capital has to be raised, and all sorts of other administrative stuff needs to happen first.

You can't just wave a magic wand and everybody has a freaking job, man. Until then, there is unemployment insurance and job training programs available already. Everything you said you want already exists in some degree already.

Hey, I got an idea, just make a law that says everyone must be employed. Problem solved! LOL




Oh, and that- "someone out of a job isn't helping the economy", it'd be best if you didn't tell that to Nancy "Botox" Pelosi and Joe "Plugs" Biden, both of which have said, in public with their bald faced liar mouths showing, unemployment payments are a boom to the economy.
So, get it right! ;)
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:48 pm

patches70 wrote:
<sigh>, the problem is, take Hostess for example, 18,000 workers just got laid off. That's 18,000 with the same skill sets competing for a finite number of jobs.

What happens when you get a massive burst of a product in a static market?

The cost of the product decreases.
In the case of these workers, the ones who get the same jobs in their respective fields are the ones who will be willing to take less money.
That's why it's up to the individual to get some skills beyond their current ones. There are plenty of programs already in place for this, but it's up to the individual to actually go out and learn new things.
Not to mention, they all lost their jobs and it's apparent that there are too many workers for that particular field for what the economic realities are as to the demand for the products that are being produced. There can only be but so many bakers and drivers and such.

The existing companies will expand, eventually (hopefully), but that's not immediate. Capital has to be raised, and all sorts of other administrative stuff needs to happen first.

You can't just wave a magic wand and everybody has a freaking job, man. Until then, there is unemployment insurance and job training programs available already. Everything you said you want already exists in some degree already.

Hey, I got an idea, just make a law that says everyone must be employed. Problem solved! LOL




Oh, and that- "someone out of a job isn't helping the economy", it'd be best if you didn't tell that to Nancy "Botox" Pelosi and Joe "Plugs" Biden, both of which have said, in public with their bald faced liar mouths showing, unemployment payments are a boom to the economy.
So, get it right! ;)


Lolz. :)
Well I can respect your position in that the economy may be unable to support the out of work people but aren't all the "systems" in place which you mention to act as a safety net to those people out of work payed for by the taxpayers? Even if jobs were "created" for the sake of these out of work people, wouldn't this be a better alternative to unemployment? Have them make license plates or break rocks if that's what it takes. At least they would be participating in some level of productivity. My point is get people back out working; they are worth more doing something, anything, than they are collecting a check.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby patches70 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:40 am

Funkyterrance wrote: Even if jobs were "created" for the sake of these out of work people, wouldn't this be a better alternative to unemployment?


No, it's not. While unemployed the unemployed can be taking steps to learn new skills to find new jobs in other fields and looking for jobs on their own.

So if...


Funkyterrance wrote: Have them make license plates or break rocks if that's what it takes. At least they would be participating in some level of productivity. My point is get people back out working; they are worth more doing something, anything, than they are collecting a check.


while they are breaking rocks, digging holes or whatever else stupid, worthless job paid for by taxpayers, when will they get the job training they need?

Not to mention, by creating such "government companies" to do whatever that doesn't need to be done, you must create another new layer of government agency, which increases costs with no benefit. The government, to pay for this proposal, must take from some people to give to other people, through taxes. It's horribly inefficient and wasteful. It's not government's role to get someone a job. So you are just taking from one sector to give to another sector and since the government borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends as it stand now, you get a negative drag when you are trying to help the economy. You aren't helping the economy that way, you are harming it.



Naw, dude, there are plenty of programs available as it is now. Don't fall for all the emotional stuff. Take it as a lesson, actually. Shit happens. One is wise to have emergency funds, generally six months wages saved up just for such things as losing your job suddenly. Living within your means and having marketable skills. Poor bastards who get content and don't use prudence in their lives, well, that's on them. Freedom means freedom to starve. One of the cons I suppose, but there it is.

Those workers will be fine in the long run, if the economy truly is "recovering". I have my doubts about that, but it is what it is. If what is being spouted by Washington about the economy is true, then these workers will find jobs if that's what they wish. Didn't you see the latest unemployment numbers? Apparently, jobs are coming back big time.
(There is much more to that story but I'd rather not get into that.)
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:05 am

patches70 wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote: Even if jobs were "created" for the sake of these out of work people, wouldn't this be a better alternative to unemployment?


patches70 wrote:No, it's not. While unemployed the unemployed can be taking steps to learn new skills to find new jobs in other fields and looking for jobs on their own.


I've got to stop for a second on this point. How does one acquire new skills on an income that is based on former employment? This just appears a further drain on the system.


Funkyterrance wrote: Have them make license plates or break rocks if that's what it takes. At least they would be participating in some level of productivity. My point is get people back out working; they are worth more doing something, anything, than they are collecting a check.


patches70 wrote:while they are breaking rocks, digging holes or whatever else stupid, worthless job paid for by taxpayers, when will they get the job training they need?

Not to mention, by creating such "government companies" to do whatever that doesn't need to be done, you must create another new layer of government agency, which increases costs with no benefit. The government, to pay for this proposal, must take from some people to give to other people, through taxes. It's horribly inefficient and wasteful. It's not government's role to get someone a job. So you are just taking from one sector to give to another sector and since the government borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends as it stand now, you get a negative drag when you are trying to help the economy. You aren't helping the economy that way, you are harming it.


Here's my angle:
Once unemployed a person is assigned some mind numbing, uninteresting job. What better initiative to improve oneself to fill a niche in the private sector? With a check coming in the mail its way too easy to procrastinate and loaf around. In a perfect world people would pull themselves up by the bootstraps and shape up to fit the needs of the work force but honestly I've seen the opposite in my personal experiences. I worked for a temp agency for a time and was working alongside some people who had been assigned the same job by some organization (government). Upon making acquaintance with these people they confided in me that they planned on going back onto unemployment instead of sticking with the somewhat boring job we were doing. They explained to me that they would be making more money this way, at least in the short term and they hated the work anyway. Once their unemployment ran out they would just be placed in another cushy yet unsatisfying position. Now I am not sure of the actual nuts and bolts of these people's situations but I got a pretty good glimpse of their "humanity" as it were. The job we were performing, while tedious, was needed. I know this for a fact because they were hiring temps like mad. Basically I feel that there is more incentive for people who get laid off to get back in the mix if they were obligated to do something instead of nothing in order to get paid. Lets say that someone actually prefers the mind numbing/back breaking work assigned. This is great as they can be promoted to the highway department or some other as they are obviously more qualified than the current employees. :P
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Timminz on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:06 am

patches70 wrote:<sigh>, the problem is, take Hostess for example, 18,000 workers just got laid off. That's 18,000 with the same skill sets competing for a finite number of jobs.


Companies (Hostess) don't require a variety of skill sets? Every single employee of any company (Hostess) has the exact same skill set?

That is an interesting premise you've picked for your argument.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby HapSmo19 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:31 am

Funkyterrance wrote:
HapSmo19 wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:Bailouts obviously are not the answer but there ought to be some sort of program that specifically relocates workers such as these into another job of relatively equal prosperity. This program should be payed for by the taxpayers.

Suck balls(if you're not already).
Their union can pay for it.


Your problem with this is what exactly? Not that I am expecting an especially substantive response, considering your above quote.
Frankly the unions are not to be trusted with this responsibility as they aren't exactly the model of efficiency.

Create a government agency to relocate these workers that effectively quit their jobs into jobs of relatively equal prosperity? Like a job that pays 5 percent less, for instance? How sweet. Is that good enough for them now?
And the government is the model of efficiency? Talk about LOLZ's.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:15 pm

I think, if there were such an agency, it would fail miserably (on the productivity side), since nobody would give a crap at a job they don't like, because they know the job safety net will just find them another one. They can call in sick whenever they want, show up late whenever they want, walk off the job whenever they want.

It will take a toll on work ethic and productivity/profits/efficiency/solvency
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:25 pm

Phatscotty wrote:I think, if there were such an agency, it would fail miserably (on the productivity side), since nobody would give a crap at a job they don't like, because they know the job safety net will just find them another one. They can call in sick whenever they want, show up late whenever they want, walk off the job whenever they want.

It will take a toll on work ethic and productivity/profits/efficiency/solvency

Hear Hear!

If it wasn't for society's demand that I wipe my tush to participate, I know I certainly would NOT do so.


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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby crispybits on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:33 pm

And the banana leaf industry is eternally grateful for that!

(that IS what a monkey uses right?)
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:53 pm

(Often, yes. Bananas Peels work well as a baby wipes though, the extra moistness can be nice).


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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Evil Semp on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:26 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:(Often, yes. Bananas Peels work well as a baby wipes though, the extra moistness can be nice).


--Andy


And they are scented.
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