Unions Shut Down Hostess

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Postby 2dimes on Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:47 pm

Dude that's a totally old picture. She's 52 now.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:31 pm

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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:05 pm

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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby notyou2 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:06 pm

Be thankful. Vachon will move into the void and their products are far superior to Hostess.

http://www.vachon.com/en/history/#1990 Look to the lower left.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby nietzsche on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:11 pm

Unions can be frivolous, whats the point of being the final nail in the company's coffin? Who's gonna give them a job now?
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:15 pm

notyou2 wrote:Be thankful. Vachon will move into the void and their products are far superior to Hostess.

http://www.vachon.com/en/history/#1990 Look to the lower left.


too late; word on the street is that nietzsche is at the front of a convoy of Bimbo Brands trucks queued at the Nuevo Laredo border crossing and ready to roll

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coming soon to the 7-11 ... pick-up a Bimbo snack cake and a Piñata ...

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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby nietzsche on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:54 pm

Bimbo's bakery has not as much frisco for American's taste.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:18 pm

Tell me if this is right or not. The offer from the company, they say to stay in business, was a 5% pay cut. And the unions turned it down.

How much is 5% of 28k? about $1400? What's the difference than if their health insurance costs rose 5% and were asked to pay? Certainly, health insurance average costs rose 10% last year....so.....

If I have this right, why did they turn down the 5% paycut? when the alternative is unemployment and yet another major blow to the American economy?
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby notyou2 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:26 pm

Not sure how you see this as a major blow to the economy? Unless a great deal of the product they made was shipped outside of the US.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:28 pm

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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:30 pm

notyou2 wrote:Not sure how you see this as a major blow to the economy? Unless a great deal of the product they made was shipped outside of the US.


Um.....the US economy lost 10's of thousands of jobs, IE 10's of thousands of taxpayers.

It's self evident, unless you can show how this is good or neutral for the US economy? I'm betting you won't, probably just call me some names...
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:35 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Tell me if this is right or not. The offer from the company, they say to stay in business, was a 5% pay cut. And the unions turned it down.

How much is 5% of 28k? about $1400? What's the difference than if their health insurance costs rose 5% and were asked to pay? Certainly, health insurance average costs rose 10% last year....so.....

If I have this right, why did they turn down the 5% paycut? when the alternative is unemployment and yet another major blow to the American economy?

$28K? So, $14 an hour, minus deductions? I can make more than that panhandling.

Below a certain point you're better off slinging your knapsack over your shoulder and going off to seek your fortune elsewhere. Working at a job that barely covers your basic cost-of-living doesn't make sense. If you aren't making more than COL you're not moving forward.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:40 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Tell me if this is right or not. The offer from the company, they say to stay in business, was a 5% pay cut. And the unions turned it down.

How much is 5% of 28k? about $1400? What's the difference than if their health insurance costs rose 5% and were asked to pay? Certainly, health insurance average costs rose 10% last year....so.....

If I have this right, why did they turn down the 5% paycut? when the alternative is unemployment and yet another major blow to the American economy?

$28K? So, $14 an hour, minus deductions? I can make more than that panhandling.

Below a certain point you're better off slinging your knapsack over your shoulder and going off to seek your fortune elsewhere. Working at a job that barely covers your basic cost-of-living doesn't make sense. If you aren't making more than COL you're not moving forward.


I was just blurting out a number. If you like, an employee making 50k would be cut 5k, or someone making 100k would be cut 10k.

It's not the case that all 18,000 of those employees who no longer have jobs makes 28k.

Also, i know people who make it a point to make less than 16k a year and goes on cruises, has a twice a week casino addiction, a flat screen in every room, and when she buys her kids a game for PS3, she gets 2 copies of the same game, so they don't have to share. So that's 16k..... you are way off about 28k barely covering the cost of living.

Luckily that is not the point here
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby notyou2 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:48 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
notyou2 wrote:Not sure how you see this as a major blow to the economy? Unless a great deal of the product they made was shipped outside of the US.


Um.....the US economy lost 10's of thousands of jobs, IE 10's of thousands of taxpayers.

It's self evident, unless you can show how this is good or neutral for the US economy? I'm betting you won't, probably just call me some names...


If the food that replaces Hostess on the shelf is from the US, there isn't necessarily a loss of jobs, perhaps a shift of jobs from one US place to another, but not necessarily a loss. I hope the junk food void is filled by crap made in Canada and the jobs go here.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:49 pm

Maybe we all need to do our part and eat more hostess cakes so these workers have jobs again.
It really burns me when people think that they are deserving of their current employ when the demand for their industry just isn't there. For instance, at the annual town meeting where I live this past year budget cuts were discussed. One area that was suggested to be downsized was the police force and the cops went bonkers and instantly came back with "What are you suggesting we do, lay off policemen???!". Well, yeah, if we don't need them. Derp.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:53 pm

notyou2 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
notyou2 wrote:Not sure how you see this as a major blow to the economy? Unless a great deal of the product they made was shipped outside of the US.


Um.....the US economy lost 10's of thousands of jobs, IE 10's of thousands of taxpayers.

It's self evident, unless you can show how this is good or neutral for the US economy? I'm betting you won't, probably just call me some names...


If the food that replaces Hostess on the shelf is from the US, there isn't necessarily a loss of jobs, perhaps a shift of jobs from one US place to another, but not necessarily a loss. I hope the junk food void is filled by crap made in Canada and the jobs go here.


So you make a point to comment about how little impact this will have on the US economy, but then in the next post you comment about the hopefully positive impact to Canada's economy?

That makes you a hypocrite. You can't get a positive effect from something you just argued does not have a negative effect.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:54 pm

notyou2 wrote:
I hope the junk food void is filled by crap made in Canada and the jobs go here.


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Nnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!
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Postby 2dimes on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:58 pm

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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:59 pm

I guess we're comparing apples to oranges. Life in the U.S. is a lot cheaper. Here in Canada, 28K wouldn't support a family, even in a very cheap neighbourhood. 16K is barely enough for a single person. But since it was just a hypothetical figure, I suppose it doesn't matter.

Phatscotty wrote:Also, i know people who make it a point to make less than 16k a year and goes on cruises, has a twice a week casino addiction, a flat screen in every room, and when she buys her kids a game for PS3, she gets 2 copies of the same game, so they don't have to share. So that's 16k..... you are way off about 28k barely covering the cost of living.

Luckily that is not the point here


The basic point is: whether you're working for pennies or for billions, whether you're a tomato picker in Chile or a transnational banker, every deal has a walk-away point. You can't just keep saying "something is better than nothing" and accepting whatever crap the other side is dishing out. That approach will just get you suckered every time. There is a point, no matter what the job or what the commodity you're dealing over, that you have to say "it's not worth my time" and go look for something better.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:59 pm

Phatscotty wrote:You can't get a positive effect from something you just argued does not have a negative effect.


Economics is not a zero sum game.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby notyou2 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:00 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
notyou2 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
notyou2 wrote:Not sure how you see this as a major blow to the economy? Unless a great deal of the product they made was shipped outside of the US.


Um.....the US economy lost 10's of thousands of jobs, IE 10's of thousands of taxpayers.

It's self evident, unless you can show how this is good or neutral for the US economy? I'm betting you won't, probably just call me some names...


If the food that replaces Hostess on the shelf is from the US, there isn't necessarily a loss of jobs, perhaps a shift of jobs from one US place to another, but not necessarily a loss. I hope the junk food void is filled by crap made in Canada and the jobs go here.


So you make a point to comment about how little impact this will have on the US economy, but then in the next post you comment about the hopefully positive impact to Canada's economy?

That makes you a hypocrite. You can't get a positive effect from something you just argued does not have a negative effect.


I was joking about the jobs to Canada part. Someone else will buy the factories and produce the same thing but non-union.

The part about the food I was serious. The jobs aren't necessarily gone. You're just making a thread to whine about how your country is going to hell in a handbasket thanks to Obama.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby tj755 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:02 pm

Good. Shut down all the places that process fake food crap. Maybe then Americans would not be so fat!
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:03 pm

Dukasaur wrote:I guess we're comparing apples to oranges. Life in the U.S. is a lot cheaper. Here in Canada, 28K wouldn't support a family, even in a very cheap neighbourhood. 16K is barely enough for a single person. But since it was just a hypothetical figure, I suppose it doesn't matter.

Phatscotty wrote:Also, i know people who make it a point to make less than 16k a year and goes on cruises, has a twice a week casino addiction, a flat screen in every room, and when she buys her kids a game for PS3, she gets 2 copies of the same game, so they don't have to share. So that's 16k..... you are way off about 28k barely covering the cost of living.

Luckily that is not the point here


The basic point is: whether you're working for pennies or for billions, whether you're a tomato picker in Chile or a transnational banker, every deal has a walk-away point. You can't just keep saying "something is better than nothing" and accepting whatever crap the other side is dishing out. That approach will just get you suckered every time. There is a point, no matter what the job or what the commodity you're dealing over, that you have to say "it's not worth my time" and go look for something better.


Why not? You think it's more likely these people who walked off the job are going to find another job that pays more, or less?

I am very surprised by your attitudes on this one. "meh, they're just jobs...."

I have been giving up my annual cost of living increases just to hold on to my health insurance since 2003.....
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:14 pm

In all seriousness I'm not downplaying the loss of jobs. I just think that hanging onto an inefficient industry is bad for everyone in the long run.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:15 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:I guess we're comparing apples to oranges. Life in the U.S. is a lot cheaper. Here in Canada, 28K wouldn't support a family, even in a very cheap neighbourhood. 16K is barely enough for a single person. But since it was just a hypothetical figure, I suppose it doesn't matter.

Phatscotty wrote:Also, i know people who make it a point to make less than 16k a year and goes on cruises, has a twice a week casino addiction, a flat screen in every room, and when she buys her kids a game for PS3, she gets 2 copies of the same game, so they don't have to share. So that's 16k..... you are way off about 28k barely covering the cost of living.

Luckily that is not the point here


The basic point is: whether you're working for pennies or for billions, whether you're a tomato picker in Chile or a transnational banker, every deal has a walk-away point. You can't just keep saying "something is better than nothing" and accepting whatever crap the other side is dishing out. That approach will just get you suckered every time. There is a point, no matter what the job or what the commodity you're dealing over, that you have to say "it's not worth my time" and go look for something better.


Why not? You think it's more likely these people who walked off the job are going to find another job that pays more, or less?

I am very surprised by your attitudes on this one. "meh, they're just jobs...."

I have been giving up my annual cost of living increases just to hold on to my health insurance since 2003.....

And I'm surprised that, considering you keep hinting you're a commodities broker or something like that, that you don't immediately grasp the point that every deal has a walk-away point.

Your time is a value. Giving it away too cheaply is giving away your life. What will it avail someone if they bust their ass for 40 years in a dead-end job, and then wake up one day, old and tired and arthritic, and realize they don't own a pot to piss in or, more relevantly, an RSP?

Do I know whether these people will get better jobs? No. I'm guessing some will and some won't. Very clearly most of them, from their own viewpoint which is closer to the scene than yours or mine, have decided they're better off not investing any more time in this company. I suspect some of them are married women, and after consulting with their husbands, they've decided their lifestyle will be better served by staying home and playing housewife. I suspect others will try going to school for a while and shooting for a real career instead of a line job. And yeah, for quite a few of them, it may have been the wrong choice, but it's their choice to make.
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