Obama - The Second Four Years

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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:38 pm

thegreekdog wrote:What I mind is that those are the only two real choices and that choice isn't as stark as it needs to be. It's like wanting to choose a place to eat and having only two choices: Burger King and McDonald's. Is there a difference? Sure. But it's not a big one.


The American public is fairly centrist in its views. Having someone who ran starkly to the left or right wouldn't particularly represent the population as a whole, so unless there is a mood shift in the voting population, the choices we have won't change, and they won't differ by much. If the dispersion from the center were larger, we could expect to see more radical candidates, but the lack of choice is our fault, not the political parties' fault.

saxi: the major difference between the two parties exists on non-economic issues. I cannot support the anti-science party.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Viceroy63 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:21 pm

Yup; Obama suckered all them Democrats into voting Republican. Will wonders never cease?

They still believe that our troops are coming home soon. Muaaa Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:19 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:TGD, I tried writing you in for President when I voted in the fall (your Vice was Metsfanmax) on one of my supplementary voter fraud ballots, but I don't think you both won.


--Andy


But did you have to give identification (supported by both Republicans and Democrats depending on who is more likely to win if voter identification was available)?

Metsfanmax wrote:The American public is fairly centrist in its views. Having someone who ran starkly to the left or right wouldn't particularly represent the population as a whole, so unless there is a mood shift in the voting population, the choices we have won't change, and they won't differ by much. If the dispersion from the center were larger, we could expect to see more radical candidates, but the lack of choice is our fault, not the political parties' fault.


If you polled the standard Democrat and the standard Republican, you'd get vastly different answers on what they think the country could go. If you hooked Barack and Mittens up to lie detectors and asked them the same questions, you'd get very similar answers. The lack of choice is our fault, but not because of our political viewpoints.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:35 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:saxi: the major difference between the two parties exists on non-economic issues. I cannot support the anti-science party.


If enacting a 20% increase in funds for the NIH's Center for Complementary Medicine - putting their monies to an historic high of $140,000,000 over the objections of virtually every medical school dean in America (the widely ridiculed program of the NIH that gives research grants for pseudoscience like energy healing, bee sting healing, "spirit medicine" and homeopathy) makes the Democrats the party of science, then please count me as part of the anti-science crowd.

Some time ago, ol' Saxi briefly worked as the ship's doctor on a tramp freighter plying the route between Mozambique and Sri Lanka. I got sea sick easily so spent most of the voyage drunk on charcoal-filtered vodka. In one port I stumbled off and got a tattoo, bought 4 hookah pipes and spent $500 on an amputee hooker. Don't mistake Saxi's penchant for spending like a drunken sailor as passionate advocacy for the tattoo, hookah and amputee sex-worker industries.
Last edited by saxitoxin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:39 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:saxi: the major difference between the two parties exists on non-economic issues. I cannot support the anti-science party.


If enacting a 20% increase in funds for the NIH's Center for Complementary Medicine - putting their monies to an historic high of $140,000,000 over the objections of virtually every medical school dean in America (the widely ridiculed program of the NIH that gives research grants for pseudoscience like energy healing, bee sting healing, "spirit medicine" and homeopathy) makes the Democrats the party of science, then please count me as part of the anti-science crowd.


I guess Mets is probably talking about stem cell research. That's one difference between Obama and the New, More Conservative Mitt Romney I suppose.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:45 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:saxi: the major difference between the two parties exists on non-economic issues. I cannot support the anti-science party.


If enacting a 20% increase in funds for the NIH's Center for Complementary Medicine - putting their monies to an historic high of $140,000,000 over the objections of virtually every medical school dean in America (the widely ridiculed program of the NIH that gives research grants for pseudoscience like energy healing, bee sting healing, "spirit medicine" and homeopathy) makes the Democrats the party of science, then please count me as part of the anti-science crowd.

Some time ago, ol' Saxi briefly worked as the ship's doctor on a tramp freighter plying the route between Mozambique and Sri Lanka. I got sea sick easily so spent most of the voyage drunk on charcoal-filtered vodka. In one port I stumbled off and got a tattoo, bought 4 hookah pipes and spent $500 on an amputee hooker. Don't mistake Saxi's penchant for spending like a drunken sailor as passionate advocacy for the tattoo, hookah and amputee sex-worker industries.


I'm not defending the Democrats as the party of science. I'm calling the Republicans the anti-science party. The Democrats don't do nearly as poorly in responding to objective scientific issues, probably mostly because of how their base feels and not necessarily because of how the congresspeople themselves feel. Nevertheless, the reason is irrelevant to my conclusion that it's a lot easier to support Democrats on scientific and social issues.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:52 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:saxi: the major difference between the two parties exists on non-economic issues. I cannot support the anti-science party.


If enacting a 20% increase in funds for the NIH's Center for Complementary Medicine - putting their monies to an historic high of $140,000,000 over the objections of virtually every medical school dean in America (the widely ridiculed program of the NIH that gives research grants for pseudoscience like energy healing, bee sting healing, "spirit medicine" and homeopathy) makes the Democrats the party of science, then please count me as part of the anti-science crowd.

Some time ago, ol' Saxi briefly worked as the ship's doctor on a tramp freighter plying the route between Mozambique and Sri Lanka. I got sea sick easily so spent most of the voyage drunk on charcoal-filtered vodka. In one port I stumbled off and got a tattoo, bought 4 hookah pipes and spent $500 on an amputee hooker. Don't mistake Saxi's penchant for spending like a drunken sailor as passionate advocacy for the tattoo, hookah and amputee sex-worker industries.


I'm not defending the Democrats as the party of science. I'm calling the Republicans the anti-science party. The Democrats don't do nearly as poorly in responding to objective scientific issues, probably mostly because of how their base feels and not necessarily because of how the congresspeople themselves feel. Nevertheless, the reason is irrelevant to my conclusion that it's a lot easier to support Democrats on scientific and social issues.


By not only funding - but increasing funding - for the NIH CCAM, the Democrats are helping Americans make uninformed and, in many cases, dangerous choices regarding healthcare based on federally funded propagation of pseudoscientific witchcraft.

The fact that the Democrats are willing to spend on absolutely everything under the sun - and occasionally a dollar or two drops into NASA or whatever your favorite pet project is - does not mean they are responsive to "objective scientific issues." The cause of science is set backwards by $10 for every $1 of funding that gets allocated on studies into Pranic Healing because the leader of the Pranic cult gave $100,000 to the chair of the Senate Labor & Health Committee.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:59 pm

saxitoxin wrote:By not only funding - but increasing funding - for the NIH CCAM, the Democrats are helping Americans make uninformed and, in many cases, dangerous choices regarding healthcare based on federally funded propagation of pseudoscientific witchcraft.

The fact that the Democrats are willing to spend on absolutely everything under the sun - and occasionally a dollar or two drops into NASA or whatever your favorite pet project is - does not mean they are responsive to "objective scientific issues." The cause of science is set backwards by $10 for every $1 of funding that gets allocated on studies into Pranic Healing because the leader of the Pranic cult gave $100,000 to the chair of the Senate Labor & Health Committee.


The amount of funding going the Center for Complementary Medicine is a drop in the bucket compared to the total NIH funding ($30,860,000,000). The budget of NASA is of the same order of magnitude (just under $20 billion). Get your figures straight.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:18 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:By not only funding - but increasing funding - for the NIH CACM, the Democrats are helping Americans make uninformed and, in many cases, dangerous choices regarding healthcare based on federally funded propagation of pseudoscientific witchcraft.

The fact that the Democrats are willing to spend on absolutely everything under the sun - and occasionally a dollar or two drops into NASA or whatever your favorite pet project is - does not mean they are responsive to "objective scientific issues." The cause of science is set backwards by $10 for every $1 of funding that gets allocated on studies into Pranic Healing because the leader of the Pranic cult gave $100,000 to the chair of the Senate Labor & Health Committee.


The amount of funding going the Center for Complementary Medicine is a drop in the bucket compared to the total NIH funding ($30,860,000,000). The budget of NASA is of the same order of magnitude (just under $20 billion). Get your figures straight.


1. Which of my figures were wrong?

2. As stated previously, CACM is an example of one in a myriad of instances of U.S.-Gov funding of junk and pseudoscience.

3. Obama healthcare advisor and Pranic Healing advocate Joie Jones (whose own research was so outlandish that even CACM wouldn't fund it - he had to get a "research grant" from the Pranic Healing cult) also supports the so-called goals of rational, scientific inquiry of the Democrat Party. Here's "Grand Master" Steve Co - the head of the Pranic Healing cult - teaching a new group of pranic "doctors." For just $299 (lunch included) you can go to an 8-hour seminar at the Holiday Inn to learn how to cure cancer by waving your hands over someone. Have cancer of the tits? Under Obamacare, you can now go to this guy to get it cured. (seriously)

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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Lootifer on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:02 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Agree 110% with what TGD just said.

Besides, I still fail to understand why parties working together is a desirable thing. If Chevron and Exxon worked together to set gas prices or a defense attorney and prosecutor worked together in court people would end up in prison. The term for all members of parliament working in unison to pass the same bills is "one party state." And, besides, there are plenty of examples of bills passed with cooperation of both parties: the Patriot Act, FISA, NDAA, etc. Democracy should be based on vigorous competition, not vigorous cooperation.

The incentives for democratic process are such that it is inevitable it will devolve into a two party shitfest a la the USofA. Our multiparty system here in NZ is no better as it simply dilutes the power of the two majors to 3rd/4th/5th party players and we get even more half arsed policy.

As I have always said the only way to effectively implement democracy is to vote on policy, not people.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:05 pm

Update - December 4, 2012:

(1) Elizabeth Fowler leaves the White House to take a job at Johnson & Johnson. Ms. Fowler was a part of the administration to help implement the Affordable Care Act. Ms. Fowler was on the Senate Finance Committee that helped draft the bill. She was an aide to Senator Max Baucus, but left to become an executive at WellPoint, the country's larger private insurer.

(2) NOW (the National Organization for Women) president indicates that 50% of the Obama cabinet should be women. Currently there is one woman member of his cabinet.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:10 am

Update - December 6, 2012

- US-blessed arms shipments went to Libya Jihadis - New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/world ... hands.html

- The president's inaugural committee is poisted to take corporate donations, unlike 2008

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2012/12 ... tio_1.html

- The White Housted a donor party at the White House (commonplace for past administrations). In attendance, the following members of the 1% - Cubs owner Laura Ricketts, business executives James Crown and Penny Pritzker, and investor Michael Sacks.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2012/12 ... ite_h.html
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby pimpdave on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:49 pm

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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby stahrgazer on Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:04 pm

saxitoxin wrote:3. Obama healthcare advisor and Pranic Healing advocate Joie Jones (whose own research was so outlandish that even CACM wouldn't fund it - he had to get a "research grant" from the Pranic Healing cult) also supports the so-called goals of rational, scientific inquiry of the Democrat Party. Here's "Grand Master" Steve Co - the head of the Pranic Healing cult - teaching a new group of pranic "doctors." For just $299 (lunch included) you can go to an 8-hour seminar at the Holiday Inn to learn how to cure cancer by waving your hands over someone. Have cancer of the tits? Under Obamacare, you can now go to this guy to get it cured. (seriously)


Acupuncture was once viewed with similar mindset. Going to a chiropractor was once something that insurance companies wouldn't fund, viewed very similarly.

Personally, I wouldn't choose to go to a faith healer, which this sounds like; but there are religions that would advocate this sort of thing. For example, Jehovah's Witnesses would prefer to have someone pray and wave arms over them than get a blood transfusion. So, under "religious freedom," this sort of care should be paid for to a degree. Plus, there's a percentage - small, to be sure, but it exists - of "miraculous cures" - people who suddenly no longer have the disease they had the week before, and "real doctors" cannot explain why they do not, because "real doctors" had no cure to offer them.
So, these patients undertook a form of "faith healing," and it worked for them.

How is this really so very different from a proposed HIV/AIDS pharmaceutical, an 'experimental drug,' that an insurance company might pay for, that turns out to work to a degree, for a very small percentage of the population.

Should faith healing, chiropractic, acupuncture, or experimental drugs replace all "traditional" healthcare? No, of course not. But as was pointed out, the percentage of money being sent "that way," is very small. Maybe it's just enough, though, to give "traditional western medicine" the warning that if they mess over, there IS some market competition out there.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Symmetry on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:38 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:3. Obama healthcare advisor and Pranic Healing advocate Joie Jones (whose own research was so outlandish that even CACM wouldn't fund it - he had to get a "research grant" from the Pranic Healing cult) also supports the so-called goals of rational, scientific inquiry of the Democrat Party. Here's "Grand Master" Steve Co - the head of the Pranic Healing cult - teaching a new group of pranic "doctors." For just $299 (lunch included) you can go to an 8-hour seminar at the Holiday Inn to learn how to cure cancer by waving your hands over someone. Have cancer of the tits? Under Obamacare, you can now go to this guy to get it cured. (seriously)


Acupuncture was once viewed with similar mindset. Going to a chiropractor was once something that insurance companies wouldn't fund, viewed very similarly.

Personally, I wouldn't choose to go to a faith healer, which this sounds like; but there are religions that would advocate this sort of thing. For example, Jehovah's Witnesses would prefer to have someone pray and wave arms over them than get a blood transfusion. So, under "religious freedom," this sort of care should be paid for to a degree. Plus, there's a percentage - small, to be sure, but it exists - of "miraculous cures" - people who suddenly no longer have the disease they had the week before, and "real doctors" cannot explain why they do not, because "real doctors" had no cure to offer them.
So, these patients undertook a form of "faith healing," and it worked for them.

How is this really so very different from a proposed HIV/AIDS pharmaceutical, an 'experimental drug,' that an insurance company might pay for, that turns out to work to a degree, for a very small percentage of the population.

Should faith healing, chiropractic, acupuncture, or experimental drugs replace all "traditional" healthcare? No, of course not. But as was pointed out, the percentage of money being sent "that way," is very small. Maybe it's just enough, though, to give "traditional western medicine" the warning that if they mess over, there IS some market competition out there.


I'm not sure what you mean by "traditional western medicine". Surely, if it can be proven to work then it's just medicine. I'm not sure why you think hemispherical difference means anything. If it works, and can be shown to work, then it's up there.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby spurgistan on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:58 am

I think that he fixes everything that anybody thinks is wrong with America.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby saxitoxin on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:33 am

stahrgazer wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:3. Obama healthcare advisor and Pranic Healing advocate Joie Jones (whose own research was so outlandish that even CACM wouldn't fund it - he had to get a "research grant" from the Pranic Healing cult) also supports the so-called goals of rational, scientific inquiry of the Democrat Party. Here's "Grand Master" Steve Co - the head of the Pranic Healing cult - teaching a new group of pranic "doctors." For just $299 (lunch included) you can go to an 8-hour seminar at the Holiday Inn to learn how to cure cancer by waving your hands over someone. Have cancer of the tits? Under Obamacare, you can now go to this guy to get it cured. (seriously)


Acupuncture was once viewed with similar mindset. Going to a chiropractor was once something that insurance companies wouldn't fund, viewed very similarly.


Hate to break it to you, but acupuncture, homeopathy and chiropractry are still junk science disputed by mainstream medicine. They've just been regulated and professionalized to the point that most people don't consider them dangerous junk. And, at least in the case of chiropractry, their witchdoctors have started to drop some of their most outlandishly pseudoscientific claims - see ...

    The chiropractic vertebral subluxation complex is an historical concept but it remains a theoretical model. It is not supported by any clinical research evidence that would allow claims to be made that it is the cause of disease.

    http://www.gcc-uk.org/files/link_file/G ... gust10.pdf
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby saxitoxin on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:44 am

"Unlimited Corporate Donations"

President Barack Obama will accept unlimited corporate donations for his Inauguration in January, reversing his position from his first Inauguration, according to two sources close to the planning. “Shocked,” wrote one Democratic lobbyist in an email about the flip-flop on corporate donations.

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/o ... 84785.html
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:54 am

saxitoxin wrote:"Unlimited Corporate Donations"

President Barack Obama will accept unlimited corporate donations for his Inauguration in January, reversing his position from his first Inauguration, according to two sources close to the planning. “Shocked,” wrote one Democratic lobbyist in an email about the flip-flop on corporate donations.

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/o ... 84785.html


viewtopic.php?f=8&t=181830&start=15#p3979905

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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby saxitoxin on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:58 pm

Scientists have named two new species of animals after Barack Obama.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012 ... 51582.html

If this were the DPRK and two new species of animals were named after Kim Jong-un, there would be much chortling and hee-hawing in the western press and crocodile-tearing at the poor, brainwashed DPRK people enduring under a self-obsessed ruler and his personality cult.

pot, kettle, etc.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby GabonX on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:06 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Scientists have named two new species of animals after Barack Obama.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012 ... 51582.html

If this were the DPRK and two new species of animals were named after Kim Jong-un, there would be much chortling and hee-hawing in the western press and crocodile-tearing at the poor, brainwashed DPRK people enduring under a self-obsessed ruler and his personality cult.

pot, kettle, etc.


In the DPRK the government would have had to order it.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Lootifer on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:04 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Scientists have named two new species of animals after Barack Obama.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012 ... 51582.html

If this were the DPRK and two new species of animals were named after Kim Jong-un, there would be much chortling and hee-hawing in the western press and crocodile-tearing at the poor, brainwashed DPRK people enduring under a self-obsessed ruler and his personality cult.

pot, kettle, etc.

I chortle at both stupid obama and bvrainwashed koreans tyvm.
I go to the gym to justify my mockery of fat people.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:49 pm

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100323798

The White House rejected a bill proposed by John Boehner that would remove the Bush tax cuts on those making over $1 million, but would keep tax cuts for those making under $1 million. This was a plan originally proposed by Nancy Pelosi in the last Obama administration.

I read the article twice and I'm still not sure I understand what the Democrats' beef is. This seems like a good plan to me. It effectively raises taxes on the Warren Buffet's of the world (at least those that earn ordinary income) and doesn't overly burden the "working rich." Apparently they are trying to get to a middle ground of $400,000 to $500,000.
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