An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

[BigBallinStalin]

In the meantime, here's an invertebrate to vertebrate transitional form. Cnidarian, hemichordate, Ken Ham.

Excuse me, sir, is this specimen a vertebrate or an invertebrate? Or is it an artist's rendition of a random amalgamation of goo from Conway's Game of Life?

[Viceroy63]

1. Over 500 Flood legends from all parts of the world have been found. Most have similarities to the Genesis account.

Irrelevant. They're stories. There are a lot of stories about a lot of things that are correctly viewed as fiction.

2. The top 3,000 feet of Mt. Everest (26,000 –29,000 feet) is made up of sedimentary rock packed with seashells and other oceandwelling animals.

This wouldn't surprised me considering that Mt. Everest is the result of two tectonic plates colliding.



There used to an ocean where the Himalayas now are.

3. Sedimentary rock is found all over the world. Sedimentary rock is formed in water.

OK.

4. Petrified clams in the closed position (found all over the world) testify to their rapid burial while they were still alive, even on top of Mount Everest.

I'm going to need a source for this...preferably a credible source.

People choose to not believe in the Flood because it speaks of the judgment of God on sin (2 Peter 3:3–8).

I assure you that is not the case with me.

1.)
The fact that there are so many independent stories means it is not merely a coincidence. The story of Cinderella is known world wide but it is not an independent story formed by those cultures thousands of years ago. It is a story that originated some place and then spread. And that is precisely how the flood stories spread and found themselves in so many cultures dating back thousands of years. The survivors of the Flood told the story to their children and they told it to their children and so on and so on as they migrated throughout all the earth and established the nations, Peoples and cultures throughout the earth. It's the only plausible explanation for so many Flood stories dating back for so long. The Aztec's even placed a date on their Flood story and they were off by only a hundred years or so. Considering that the event actually happened 4,400 years ago, that is amazing accuracy.

2.)
Mount Everest did not just impact into Asia like some kind of an auto accident where the clams and see life had no time to get out of the way. The explanation that Plate Tectonics could explain sea shells and fossilized sea life atop any mountain is ridiculous because the process takes too long. I just don't see how any creature chooses to stay in an area that represents a danger to their lives. All life moves around and there simply should not be any sea life in any quantity atop any mountain. Unless it happened suddenly and unexpectedly. The story of the Flood states that water gushed to the surface from under the earth as well as it also rain. The water from under the earth would indicate that some parts of the earth collapsed into the earth while other parts of the earth rose under pressure. This is a much more likely and scientific explanation than that a section of ocean floor was pushed atop a mountain due to Plate Tectonics that takes several hundred thousands of years to take place (if not millions of years) and all the sea life just stayed put while it happened.

3.)
Sedimentary Rock:
Even if Plate Tectonics is responsible for Sedimentary rock found on the surface of the earth, the hundreds of thousands of Years of rain and weather would do to the sedimentary rock what it does to regular rock. Wash it away! And actually the theory of Plate Tectonics could not explain all the earth having sedimentary rock because one Plate of the earth would have to go under the other which would go over. Where ever the plate sunk into the earth and went under would not deploy sedimentary rock onto that part of the earth.

4.)
http://www.supremeessays.com/samples/Sc ... -Life.html
Also check out...
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebo ... ces16.html

"The mechanisms, forces, and energy required to push up mountains were also never explained. Because elevations on earth change slowly, some wondered if sea bottoms could rise miles into the air, perhaps over millions of years. However, mountaintops, which experience destructive freezing and thawing cycles, erode relatively rapidly—and so should fossils slowly lifted by them."

[GreecePwns]

Mount Everest did not just impact into Asia like some kind of an auto accident where the clams and see life had no time to get out of the way. The explanation that Plate Tectonics could explain sea shells and fossilized sea life atop any mountain is ridiculous because the process takes too long. I just don't see how any creature chooses to stay in an area that represents a danger to their lives. All life moves around and there simply should not be any sea life in any quantity atop any mountain. Unless it happened suddenly and unexpectedly. The story of the Flood states that water gushed to the surface from under the earth as well as it also rain. The water from under the earth would indicate that some parts of the earth collapsed into the earth while other parts of the earth rose under pressure. This is a much more likely and scientific explanation than that a section of ocean floor was pushed atop a mountain due to Plate Tectonics that takes several hundred thousands of years to take place (if not millions of years) and all the sea life just stayed put while it happened.

This is, quite possibly, the highlight of the thread.

[AndyDufresne]

Mount Everest did not just impact into Asia like some kind of an auto accident where the clams and see life had no time to get out of the way. The explanation that Plate Tectonics could explain sea shells and fossilized sea life atop any mountain is ridiculous because the process takes too long. I just don't see how any creature chooses to stay in an area that represents a danger to their lives. All life moves around and there simply should not be any sea life in any quantity atop any mountain. Unless it happened suddenly and unexpectedly. The story of the Flood states that water gushed to the surface from under the earth as well as it also rain. The water from under the earth would indicate that some parts of the earth collapsed into the earth while other parts of the earth rose under pressure. This is a much more likely and scientific explanation than that a section of ocean floor was pushed atop a mountain due to Plate Tectonics that takes several hundred thousands of years to take place (if not millions of years) and all the sea life just stayed put while it happened.

This is, quite possibly, the highlight of the thread.

One of them, definitely.


--Andy

[Neoteny]

Some fantastic imagery there.

[Viceroy63]

Mount Everest did not just impact into Asia like some kind of an auto accident where the clams and see life had no time to get out of the way. The explanation that Plate Tectonics could explain sea shells and fossilized sea life atop any mountain is ridiculous because the process takes too long. I just don't see how any creature chooses to stay in an area that represents a danger to their lives. All life moves around and there simply should not be any sea life in any quantity atop any mountain. Unless it happened suddenly and unexpectedly. The story of the Flood states that water gushed to the surface from under the earth as well as it also rain. The water from under the earth would indicate that some parts of the earth collapsed into the earth while other parts of the earth rose under pressure. This is a much more likely and scientific explanation than that a section of ocean floor was pushed atop a mountain due to Plate Tectonics that takes several hundred thousands of years to take place (if not millions of years) and all the sea life just stayed put while it happened.

This is, quite possibly, the highlight of the thread.

One of them, definitely.

--Andy

LMAO; Yes it is quite an image. I'm just glad that you got the whole paragraph at least. But the whole thing would have been better. But it is best stated this way...

"The mechanisms, forces, and energy required to push up mountains were also never explained. Because elevations on earth change slowly, some wondered if sea bottoms could rise miles into the air, perhaps over millions of years. However, mountaintops, which experience destructive freezing and thawing cycles, erode relatively rapidly—and so should fossils slowly lifted by them."
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebo ... ces16.html

This wouldn't surprised me considering that Mt. Everest is the result of two tectonic plates colliding.



There used to an ocean where the Himalayas now are.

If you really think about it, how can any process that takes millions of years to happen, possibly preserve any kind of sea or ocean life atop of any mountain. This is just a silly way to say that a World Wide Flood could not have taken place in an attempt to deny the obviousness of the truth.

[Timminz]

Viceroy, do you have any sources (even just one) that don't presuppose the answer?

[Viceroy63]

Viceroy, do you have any sources (even just one) that don't presuppose the answer?

How would that work exactly? Could you be more clear in your intent, meaning and purpose?

Or do you mean like Darwinist who invent Hoaxes to "Presuppose" that the theory of evolution is real?

[crispybits]

"The mechanisms, forces, and energy required to push up mountains were also never explained. Because elevations on earth change slowly, some wondered if sea bottoms could rise miles into the air, perhaps over millions of years. However, mountaintops, which experience destructive freezing and thawing cycles, erode relatively rapidly—and so should fossils slowly lifted by them."
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebo ... ces16.html

Plate tectonics has never been explained? Now you really are trolling....


(by the way that link doesn't work so i'm unable to mercilessly mock all of the hundreds of basic scientific errors that are undoubtedly there)

[Timminz]

Viceroy, do you have any sources (even just one) that don't presuppose the answer?

How would that work exactly? Could you be more clear in your intent, meaning and purpose?

If you're having trouble understanding the meaning of the words I'm using, perhaps this site could help.

[tzor]

Mount Everest did not just impact into Asia like some kind of an auto accident where the clams and see life had no time to get out of the way.

Are you an intelligent neutron star, nothing else can be really that dense.

The clams DIED. The continents collided. Their graves became the mountain.

Even if Plate Tectonics is responsible for Sedimentary rock found on the surface of the earth, the hundreds of thousands of Years of rain and weather would do to the sedimentary rock what it does to regular rock. Wash it away!

Actually it takes rivers to wash away rock. You don't find a lot of rivers at the tops of mountains. I wonder why?

[Lootifer]

Can Vicroys' posts in this thread be described as baiting and/or trolling? Surely it requires a modicum of tolerance in order to avoid baiting/trolling on these boards correct?

[/]

A few quick questions, if life was created simultaneously; salmon and ammonites swimming side by side, deers being hunted by velociraptors. Rather than the gradual generations of change suggested by evolutionists. Why are never any Plesiosauria fossils found in layers beneath Trilobites, rather than the other way around? Why are there no pig fossils lower than pterodactyls? Why are trace fossils of footprints segregated into distinct levels?

[BigBallinStalin]

Can Vicroys' posts in this thread be described as baiting and/or trolling? Surely it requires a modicum of tolerance in order to avoid baiting/trolling on these boards correct?

Based on these responses, I wouldn't call him a troll, but...

there he was. Asking about creationism; saying the same old same old.... Is he a troll? One can never be sure....

[Lootifer]

I just hate this thread and want it gone. It disgusts me (from a tolerance pov, the content is meaningless).

[BigBallinStalin]

I just hate this thread and want it gone. It disgusts me (from a tolerance pov, the content is meaningless).

AND!!!

Go away Viceroy, you contribute nothing to this community.

There are very few people that believe a single word you have said in this thread. And the only reason its 5 pages is a testament to the retarded fact that we as humans much prefer the negative discussion (i.e. conflict/argument) over the positive discussion (e.g. spending time with your kids is great and increases the likelihood they will be successful, #tumbleweed).

So i beg of you; please go away; you will not change any of us, and likewise we will not change you. Its pointless so please please please stop posting.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=182529&start=60#p3988524




I disagree. I don't know much about the physical sciences, so whenever a Bible-thumping maniac arrives, I sit down and read the posts of those who are knowledgeable of the sciences... e.g. Neoteny, TG, Haggis, MeDeFe, Mets, etc. Then there's jokes from jones, DY, Timminz, etc.


Why do you reject the goose that lays golden eggs? Are you a vegan?

[tzor]

Can Viceroys' posts in this thread be described as baiting and/or trolling?

No, I believe Viceroy is quite sincere in what Viceroy posts. Bating and trolling is an attempt to get people to attack; which I do not believe is the intent. Viceroy, apparently, firmly believes what is posted.

[Neoteny]

Run, clams. Run away.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Run, clams. Run away.

The land is rising and in 100,000 years you'll run out of water. GET OUT QUICK!

-TG

[comic boy]

Easy boys , Viceroy was obviously refering to zombie clams.

[Viceroy63]

Can Viceroys' posts in this thread be described as baiting and/or trolling?

No, I believe Viceroy is quite sincere in what Viceroy posts. Bating and trolling is an attempt to get people to attack; which I do not believe is the intent. Viceroy, apparently, firmly believes what is posted.

I believe it because it is the truth! I can't understand the reason for not accepting the fact that Dawinist want to prove that evolution is real so badly that they would create Hoaxes to deceive people into believing in these lies. In fact every single exhibition is either a straight out lie/Hoax or a very poor misrepresentation of the known facts.

In the case of The Australopithecus Sediba Hoax(Short Youtube Video - 5 minutes long), They haven't even shown any bones. They just said that we got these bones and they are not yet being made available to the public for viewing but here is what this missing link looks like and then they show us an artist rendition of a sensitive, compassionate looking gorilla. Wow! Very Scientific???

Archaeopteryx was found over a hundred years ago and since then no other samples of this supposedly half bird, half dinosaur was ever found. The only samples in existence were all found only two month apart from each other and by the same person. If that alone is not undeniable and scientific evidence that Archaeopteryx is a Hoax then the perhaps the rest of the evidence mentioned in that article is.

In one sample the feathers are bent while the other they are straight. The feathers themselves do not make contact where they are suppose to in Bird wing structures. And for the longest time they remained in Private exhibition unavailable to the general public because supposedly the samples are so delicate that they can't even be move??? What's that about?

The Article mentions much more than this if anyone who is criticizing me would simply take a read at it. The fact that it is publish by a creation science institute should not deter the open and truly scientific minds among us, from seeking out the truth of the matter. What is the point of backing up a lie. Read it for yourself and then decide. Here is the Link again...

A Clever Hoax: The Archaeopteryx Lithographica Hoax!

[AAFitz]

Can Viceroys' posts in this thread be described as baiting and/or trolling?

No, I believe Viceroy is quite sincere in what Viceroy posts. Bating and trolling is an attempt to get people to attack; which I do not believe is the intent. Viceroy, apparently, firmly believes what is posted.

I believe that is the case as well. Tragically, for humanity.

Its sad to see someone who can read and write still be absolutely so ignorant.

[jonesthecurl]

I went to the top of Mount Everest, and I asked the clam fossils why they didn't leave in time.
They said nothing.
Now I know where the expression "clam up" came from.

[AndyDufresne]

I once found something that looked like a meteorite. But then I thought, "Rocks can't fall from the sky does---the moon doesn't."


--Andy

[jonesthecurl]

Archaeopteryx was found over a hundred years ago and since then no other samples of this supposedly half bird, half dinosaur was ever found. The only samples in existence were all found only two month apart from each other and by the same person. If that alone is not undeniable and scientific evidence that Archaeopteryx is a Hoax then the perhaps the rest of the evidence mentioned in that article is.

Since then ten specimens have been recovered:

The Berlin Specimen (HMN 1880) was discovered in 1874 or 1875 on the Blumenberg near Eichstätt, Germany, by farmer Jakob Niemeyer. He sold this precious fossil for the money to buy a cow in 1876, to inn-keeper Johann Dörr, who again sold it to Ernst Otto Häberlein, the son of K. Häberlein. Placed on sale between 1877 and 1881, with potential buyers including O. C. Marsh of Yale University's Peabody Museum, it was eventually bought by the Humboldt Museum für Naturkunde, where it is now displayed, for 20,000 Goldmark. The transaction was financed by Ernst Werner von Siemens, founder of the famous company that bears his name.[41] Described in 1884 by Wilhelm Dames, it is the most complete specimen, and the first with a complete head. It was in 1897 named by Dames as a new species, A. siemensii; a recent evaluation supports the A. siemensii species identification.[25]
Cast of the Maxberg Specimen

Composed of a torso, the Maxberg Specimen (S5) was discovered in 1956 near Langenaltheim; it was brought to the attention of professor Florian Heller in 1958 and described by him in 1959. It is currently missing, though it was once exhibited at the Maxberg Museum in Solnhofen. It belonged to Eduard Opitsch, who loaned it to the museum until 1974. After his death in 1991, the specimen was discovered to be missing and may have been stolen or sold. The specimen is missing its head and tail, although the rest of the skeleton is mostly intact.
Slab of the Haarlem Specimen

The Haarlem Specimen (TM 6428, also known as the Teyler Specimen) was discovered in 1855 near Riedenburg, Germany, and described as a Pterodactylus crassipes in 1857 by von Meyer. It was reclassified in 1970 by John Ostrom and is currently located at the Teylers Museum in Haarlem, Netherlands. It was the very first specimen, despite the classification error. It is also one of the least complete specimens, consisting mostly of limb bones and isolated cervical vertebrae and ribs.

The Eichstätt Specimen (JM 2257) was discovered in 1951 near Workerszell, Germany and described by Peter Wellnhofer in 1974. Currently located at the Jura Museum in Eichstätt, Germany, it is the smallest specimen and has the second best head. It is possibly a separate genus (Jurapteryx recurva) or species (A. recurva).

The Solnhofen Specimen (BSP 1999) was discovered in the 1970s near Eichstätt, Germany, and described in 1988 by Wellnhofer. Currently located at the Bürgermeister-Müller-Museum in Solnhofen, it was originally classified as Compsognathus by an amateur collector, the same burgomaster Friedrich Müller after which the museum is named. It is the largest specimen known and may belong to a separate genus and species, Wellnhoferia grandis. It is missing only portions of the neck, tail, backbone, and head.

The Munich Specimen (S6, formerly known as the Solnhofen-Aktien-Verein Specimen) was discovered on 3 August 1992 near Langenaltheim and described in 1993 by Wellnhofer. It is currently located at the Paläontologisches Museum München in Munich, to which it was sold in 1999 for 1.9 million Deutschmark. What was initially believed to be a bony sternum turned out to be part of the coracoid,[53] but a cartilaginous sternum may have been present. Only the front of its face is missing. It may be a new species, A. bavarica.
Daiting Specimen

An eighth, fragmentary specimen was discovered in 1990, not in Solnhofen limestone, but in somewhat younger sediments at Daiting, Suevia. It is therefore known as the Daiting Specimen, and had been known since 1996 only from a cast, briefly shown at the Naturkundemuseum in Bamberg. Long remaining hidden and therefore dubbed the 'Phantom', the original was purchased by palaeontologist Raimund Albertsdörfer in 2009.[54] It was on display for the first time with six other original fossils of Archaeopteryx at the Munich Mineral Show in October 2009.[55] A first, quick look by scientists indicates that this specimen might represent a new species of Archaeopteryx.[56] It was found in a limestone bed that was a few hundred thousand years younger than the other finds.[54]
Bürgermeister-Müller ("chicken wing") Specimen

Another fragmentary fossil was found in 2000. It is in private possession and since 2004 on loan to the Bürgermeister-Müller Museum in Solenhofen, so it is called the Bürgermeister-Müller Specimen; the institute itself officially refers to it as the "Exemplar of the families Ottman & Steil, Solnhofen". As the fragment represents the remains of a single wing of Archaeopteryx, the popular name of this fossil is "chicken wing".

Long in a private collection in Switzerland, the Thermopolis Specimen (WDC CSG 100) was discovered in Bavaria and described in 2005 by Mayr, Pohl, and Peters. Donated to the Wyoming Dinosaur Center in Thermopolis, Wyoming, it has the best-preserved head and feet; most of the neck and the lower jaw have not been preserved. The "Thermopolis" specimen was described in the December 2, 2005 Science journal article as "A well-preserved Archaeopteryx specimen with theropod features"; it shows that the Archaeopteryx lacked a reversed toe — a universal feature of birds — limiting its ability to perch on branches and implying a terrestrial or trunk-climbing lifestyle.[57] This has been interpreted as evidence of theropod ancestry. In 1988, Gregory S. Paul claimed to have found evidence of a hyperextensible second toe, but this was not verified and accepted by other scientists until the Thermopolis specimen was described.[58] "Until now, the feature was thought to belong only to the species' close relatives, the deinonychosaurs."[59]

The Thermopolis Specimen was assigned to Archaeopteryx siemensii in 2007.[60] The specimen itself, currently on loan to the Royal Tyrrell Museum, Drumheller, Alberta, Canada, is considered the most complete and well preserved Archaeopteryx remains yet.[60]
The eleventh specimen

In 2011 the discovery of an eleventh specimen was announced. It is said to be one of the more complete specimens, but is missing the skull and one forelimb. It is privately owned and has yet to be given a name or described scientifically.[61][62]