An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

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What are the facts? Please keep an open mind and read the article first before casting your vote.

While there is certainly proof that mutations do occur in nature; There is absolutely no real evidence to support the theory of evolution at this time (for over the past 150 years of "Dino-digging"). Including the sedimentary column.
18
27%
There probably is evidence to support this theory, yet scientist are at a loss to explain it appropriately.
17
26%
Scientist are great at making shit up when they have no evidence to prove something that is false to begin with.
8
12%
I believe in Santa. He's a real person that lives all the way deep at the north pole and brings me presents every year. The presents prove that he's real. I also leave him milk and cookies to snack on and while I don't ever see him, I just know with all my heart, that he is the one who eats all the cookies and milk. Or, I wish I had a dogasaur like Dino.
23
35%
 
Total votes : 66

Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:51 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:As grand director of evolution, God has told me that he plans on running a homo sapiens 2.0 pretty soon. I can't say if its elvisian or not, but he expects great things. For it is written, or rather told me first and then some people will write it down for me later. True knowledge is true.

Did that come from the church of Elvis?


http://www.geocities.ws/presleyterian_church/home.html

(actually turns out there are several Elvis churches.. go figure!)
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Haggis_McMutton on Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:59 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:As grand director of evolution, God has told me that he plans on running a homo sapiens 2.0 pretty soon. I can't say if its elvisian or not, but he expects great things. For it is written, or rather told me first and then some people will write it down for me later. True knowledge is true.


I think HS2.0 have already been released for a while now.

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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Teflon Kris on Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:32 pm

I read the first few pages and it seems there are some hysterical reactions to the author questioning evidence for a theory that, whether proper science boffins do or not, influential figures in the human world expect and encourage the populace to believe using a range of classic ideological features.

    Somebody mentioned under-sea being a good place for fossils. Presumably the 'missing evidence' might be there?

    Another response suggested that because there aren't many fossilised remains for common species, this explains why there are 0 remains for mutations that didn't survive long. Whoever made that point needs to understand the difference between 0 and any other number.

    Perhaps there is some evidence in studies of mutations of simple organisms such as bacteria which breed quickly? Maybe there is more evidence in studies of insects, again due to breeding time.

    Studies of human 'evolution' is tricky as nobody lives long enough to study trends, and, evolutionists could argue that the human environment is too complex to study, as any threats are pretty-much all human themselves.

      Also what do you think of the neanderthal? that it has nothing to do whatsoever with our specie, and that we are not 2 branches with a common root?

    There is also the political issue that too much human study, combined with the prevelance of evolutionist ideology could lead to the degrading of millions of mutant humans amongst our multi-billion populace. The far-right would have science to back-up their 'purity' ideology. So, interestingly, if you take evolutionism to its logical conclusion, an understanding of this theory could disprove the theory by its being used to prevent further mutations, and therefore developments taking place.

    The controlling middle-right may also prefer not to see much study of humans in an evolutionary theory context as it may reveal that the above has already happened. It could well be that europeans are an inferior race with their small percentage of neanderthal genes, just as many cross-breeds of dogs are pretty messed-up creatures (there is probably a correlation between human mongrels owning maladaptive dog mongrels). Conversely, it could be possible that eradicating those with neanderthal genes proves the theory. Darwin could put his own species out of business!

Darwinian science is essentially a study of behaviour. Can it be a very exact science when it studies something that can't be measured properly?

Psychology is similarly a dodgy science. Apparently, a correlation of 70% is 'acceptable'. A proper scientist would want much better percentages to even start thinking about a theory. Yet psychology is used by political and media ideological perveyors massively (despite the non-use of sociology which is equally valid/unvalid in scientific terms). Take 'choice theory' as an example. Its an ideology gone mad in the western world, controlling and making us conform, yet where is its scientific basis? Anyone ever seen a choice-making consciousness through a microscope?

Ultimately, at this current stage of 'evolution' a lot of people talk a lot of rubbish based on dodgy science, and a lot of that rubbish is controlling people, wasting a lot of their time and mental energy and holding them back.

Even Newton got it all wrong and proper science showed him to be right for many generations.

Maybe in a few millennia kids will learn about how the human race became so much more civilised when it got rid of the neanderthal mongrel mutants.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:27 pm

"A correlation of 70%"

I'm digging in my classes on statistics and econometrics, but I've yet to pull out anything remotely meaningful on 'a correlation of 70%'.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Frigidus on Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:30 pm

Teflon Kris wrote:Somebody mentioned under-sea being a good place for fossils. Presumably the 'missing evidence' might be there?


I wouldn't say there's any missing evidence. Evolution has a pretty airtight case.

Teflon Kris wrote:Also what do you think of the neanderthal? that it has nothing to do whatsoever with our specie, and that we are not 2 branches with a common root?


Neanderthals, if they were alive today, would be our closest genetic relative. They would be considered to fall under the genus Homo, of which we are currently the only living species.

Teflon Kris wrote:There is also the political issue that too much human study, combined with the prevelance of evolutionist ideology could lead to the degrading of millions of mutant humans amongst our multi-billion populace. The far-right would have science to back-up their 'purity' ideology. So, interestingly, if you take evolutionism to its logical conclusion, an understanding of this theory could disprove the theory by its being used to prevent further mutations, and therefore developments taking place.


Social Darwinism is nothing more than a heavy handed attempt to bend science to fit a philosophy that its proponents already had. That particular brand of bigotry lies on the scrap heap of history. Besides, how would selective breeding prove evolution false?

Teflon Kris wrote:The controlling middle-right may also prefer not to see much study of humans in an evolutionary theory context as it may reveal that the above has already happened. It could well be that europeans are an inferior race with their small percentage of neanderthal genes, just as many cross-breeds of dogs are pretty messed-up creatures (there is probably a correlation between human mongrels owning maladaptive dog mongrels). Conversely, it could be possible that eradicating those with neanderthal genes proves the theory. Darwin could put his own species out of business!


Leaving aside the invalidity of the term "inferior" in an evolutionary context, the genetic differences between the races of humanity are trivial. Even if this weren't the case, how pleasant we find the truth to be has no bearing on what the truth is.

Teflon Kris wrote:Darwinian science is essentially a study of behaviour. Can it be a very exact science when it studies something that can't be measured properly?


I would hardly call it a study of behaviour, unless you would consider biology as a whole a study of behaviour.

Teflon Kris wrote:Even Newton got it all wrong and proper science showed him to be right for many generations.


Newton didn't get it all wrong, we just can't use his model on absolutely everything. If he had been completely incorrect we wouldn't still be teaching his laws today.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Teflon Kris on Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:46 pm

Teflon Kris wrote:The controlling middle-right may also prefer not to see much study of humans in an evolutionary theory context as it may reveal that the above has already happened. It could well be that europeans are an inferior race with their small percentage of neanderthal genes, just as many cross-breeds of dogs are pretty messed-up creatures (there is probably a correlation between human mongrels owning maladaptive dog mongrels). Conversely, it could be possible that eradicating those with neanderthal genes proves the theory. Darwin could put his own species out of business!


Leaving aside the invalidity of the term "inferior" in an evolutionary context, the genetic differences between the races of humanity are trivial. Even if this weren't the case, how pleasant we find the truth to be has no bearing on what the truth is.


Strange that scientists aren't funded to look for this 'truth' then !

Similarly strange that there is no funding for genetic scientists to analyse right-wing proponents and politicians, or the ruling class in general ;-)
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Teflon Kris on Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:48 pm

Teflon Kris wrote:There is also the political issue that too much human study, combined with the prevelance of evolutionist ideology could lead to the degrading of millions of mutant humans amongst our multi-billion populace. The far-right would have science to back-up their 'purity' ideology. So, interestingly, if you take evolutionism to its logical conclusion, an understanding of this theory could disprove the theory by its being used to prevent further mutations, and therefore developments taking place.


Social Darwinism is nothing more than a heavy handed attempt to bend science to fit a philosophy that its proponents already had. That particular brand of bigotry lies on the scrap heap of history. Besides, how would selective breeding prove evolution false?


Eradicating all mutations would prove evolution false ;-). If humans are wrong in what they claim to be 'inferior' and delete the claimed 'inferiority' then their actions disprove Darwinism - evolution would be stopped according to his theory. Selective breeding would actually be de-mutation / de-evolutionary breeding.

Apparently, it is now claimed that rebels have a genetic disorder :lol: ODD !! Classic attempt by the rulers to get rid of ('caste out') mutants that threaten them before the mutants can adapt and multiply.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Teflon Kris on Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 pm

Teflon Kris wrote:Darwinian science is essentially a study of behaviour. Can it be a very exact science when it studies something that can't be measured properly?


I would hardly call it a study of behaviour, unless you would consider biology as a whole a study of behaviour.


Err, yes, adaptation is a study of behaviour. It studies what species and mutations do, their actions, their behaviour! Descriptions, not measurements.

Do you have too much neanderthal in your genes? Or did your logic just go to sleep when you wrote that? Darwin isnt all of Biology - Biology that doesnt study behaviour is proper science with measurements.

Teflon Kris wrote:Even Newton got it all wrong and proper science showed him to be right for many generations.


Newton didn't get it all wrong, we just can't use his model on absolutely everything. If he had been completely incorrect we wouldn't still be teaching his laws today.


Newton didnt get much 100% right - ok, so I exaggerated, but not getting it 100% right is technically wrong. Unless I dreamt Einstein?
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Frigidus on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:34 pm

Teflon Kris wrote:
Teflon Kris wrote:Darwinian science is essentially a study of behaviour. Can it be a very exact science when it studies something that can't be measured properly?


I would hardly call it a study of behaviour, unless you would consider biology as a whole a study of behaviour.


Err, yes, adaptation is a study of behaviour. It studies what species and mutations do, their actions, their behaviour! Descriptions, not measurements.

Do you have too much neanderthal in your genes? Or did your logic just go to sleep when you wrote that? Darwin isnt all of Biology - Biology that doesnt study behaviour is proper science with measurements.


Adaptation, as far as evolution goes, is the idea that those most suited to an environment tend to see greater success in passing on their genes within that environment. Any behavior that is not hardwired as a genetic preference will only result in temporary genetic success (at best). If an individual organism picks up a certain personality trait over the course of its life it won't mean anything on the sort of timescale that evolution occurs in.

Teflon Kris wrote:
Teflon Kris wrote:Even Newton got it all wrong and proper science showed him to be right for many generations.


Newton didn't get it all wrong, we just can't use his model on absolutely everything. If he had been completely incorrect we wouldn't still be teaching his laws today.


Newton didnt get much 100% right - ok, so I exaggerated, but not getting it 100% right is technically wrong. Unless I dreamt Einstein?


Sure, science did not cease to progress after Newton. My point is that not all previous discoveries are discarded as soon as the next big idea comes along. More often than not the foundation of older science is found to be correct while some of its details are not. Such is the case with both Darwin and Newton.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Frigidus on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:44 pm

Teflon Kris wrote:
Teflon Kris wrote:There is also the political issue that too much human study, combined with the prevelance of evolutionist ideology could lead to the degrading of millions of mutant humans amongst our multi-billion populace. The far-right would have science to back-up their 'purity' ideology. So, interestingly, if you take evolutionism to its logical conclusion, an understanding of this theory could disprove the theory by its being used to prevent further mutations, and therefore developments taking place.


Social Darwinism is nothing more than a heavy handed attempt to bend science to fit a philosophy that its proponents already had. That particular brand of bigotry lies on the scrap heap of history. Besides, how would selective breeding prove evolution false?


Eradicating all mutations would prove evolution false ;-).


Purposefully choosing which sort of genes are preferable is exactly what has given us the various breeds of dogs that we see today. If anything I would expect change in the human species to speed up.

Teflon Kris wrote:If humans are wrong in what they claim to be 'inferior' and delete the claimed 'inferiority' then their actions disprove Darwinism - evolution would be stopped according to his theory. Selective breeding would actually be de-mutation / de-evolutionary breeding.


Evolution doesn't state that one species is better than another, it just states that genetic traits favored by the environment tend to propagate. There is no such thing as an inferior being.

Teflon Kris wrote:Apparently, it is now claimed that rebels have a genetic disorder :lol: ODD !! Classic attempt by the rulers to get rid of ('caste out') mutants that threaten them before the mutants can adapt and multiply.


Such claims, regardless of who they are directed at, are invariably propaganda.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby hahaha3hahaha on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:55 pm

Frigidus wrote:
I would hardly call it a study of behaviour, unless you would consider biology as a whole a study of behaviour.


Natural selection is more so behaviour than science. Also, didn't he ditch NS for lamarckism..? Which is again, science, but not really...
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Frigidus on Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:02 pm

hahaha3hahaha wrote:
Teflon Kris wrote:
I would hardly call it a study of behaviour, unless you would consider biology as a whole a study of behaviour.


Natural selection is more so behaviour than science. Also, didn't he ditch NS for lamarckism..? Which is again, science, but not really...


I'm not sure who you mean by "he", but if you're referring to Darwin Lamarck died when he was 20. He was most definitely wrong in his conclusions, but he was still much closer to the truth than any of his contemporaries. I would compare his model of evolution to Democritus' model of the atom. It can be viewed through a modern lense as a flawed theory, but the core idea was not wrong.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby tzor on Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Frigidus wrote:If an individual organism picks up a certain personality trait over the course of its life it won't mean anything on the sort of timescale that evolution occurs in.


That's not exactly true; there are some nurture/nature tendencies in organisms where it is possible to ingrain skills from parent to child. But this is so much more variable than genetic mutation it looks like Brownian motion on any evolutionary timescale.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Artimis on Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:30 am

I'm on page 4 of this thread so far, I've been laugh so hard I thought I was going to cry! :lol: :lol: :lol:

mrswdk, are you here?

Where are we on the debate of the theory of evolution? Are the apparent 'missing links' between species still being cited as evidence that evolution doesn't work or is incomplete?

EDIT: Still reading and STILL LAUGHING! :lol:

Museums are in some kind of global conspiracy to deceive the public with a view to destroying the credibility of religion? :lol: It seems that in the grossly improbable event that the museums were engaged in such activity, all involved could simply pack up and go home because Viceroy63 is doing the most outstanding job that utterly eclipses any subversive effect they could accomplish. :lol: :lol:

I'll go back to reading now.


EDIT_II: Love the argument on the 2nd law of thermodynamics!

If only it would be true, then we no longer need to worry about the heat death of the universe when the maximal state of entropy is achieved with the smoothing out of all imbalance(and therefore any structure that could have resulted). AND perpetual motion machines would be possible, thus replacing the need to burn fossil fuels or invest in alternative 'green technologies', the environment is saved! HUZZAH! Thank you Viceroy, you're awesome!

P.S. Still laughing! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:51 am

Artimis, I am not sure if you dedication is to be lauded or seen as foolhardy. Probably both.


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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Artimis on Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:41 pm

I'm on page 20, seems we've veered off course into a discussion on the Bible and how skewed the interpretation is depending on which written language you're reading. Can someone give me a heads up on how long the Bible discussion goes on for? Or if this thread even gets back onto track in discussing science and not theology?

At least Neuroscience and Quantum Mechanics can breathe a sigh of relief that they're not subject to this industrial strength bullshit PR campaign!

EDIT: So the Moon is made of cheese? Awesome, put in an order for Lunar-zola for me when the next mission is launched ot the Moon, or just ask Wallace if he has any spare in his fridge, might be easier and less costly. :)

EDIT_II: Uh oh, I wondered when (Un?)Intelligent Design would rear its ugly head, shouldn't have clicked on the play button for his Youtube clip. :(

EDIT_III: Urrrrgh. :sick: I thought I could make it to page 30, but I must have barreled throughone to many of Viceroy's wall-of-text's. I need a break from this fruit loopery! :sick:
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby crispybits on Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:37 am

Page 20 something is still showing excellent stamina - tbh we all just started skim reading Viceroy's posts, once you've read a couple of them they're fairly predictable.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Artimis on Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:12 am

Props to mejihn7779 for the Talking Snowmen, also it reminds me of the Doctor Who Christmas special from last year. Except those Snowmen didn't talk, but they were dangerous..... and hungry!

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Snowmen with sharks teeth, scary! :shock:

EDIT: Ok, so by page 31 Viceroy63 still says that mutation that filters viable organisms from non-viable organisms through natural selection is not evolution? Does that mean he's writing off Evolution as a myth along with Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy? Great..... so who told my ancestors to grow bigger brains, walk on two feet and develop language, culture, agriculture, cooking and all the other technologies that followed thereafter? :roll:

EDIT_II: Spontaneous generation?! Didn't this get debunked over a century ago?

EDIT_III: As we approach the halfway mark, we're on to plate tectonics, this is fucking awesome! :lol: Of course no self respecting clams would allow themselves get stranded up a mountain, least of all the highest point on Earth, Mount Everest. :lol: :lol: Well, except maybe the dead ones that got buried in what was then the sea floor......

EDIT_IV: AAARRRRGGGHHH! Winter is on its way and I have my window open for fresh(and bloody cold!) air. I've run into another Wall-of-text post from Viceroy, this must be what it feels like to attempt to climb Mount Everest! :shock: Viceroy63 also has the most amazing fixation on infamous paleontological hoaxes, exactly the same type of unrelenting fixation that universalchiro exhibited for the absence of sediment older than 4,500 years on the Atlantic ocean floor........

EDIT_V: Before premio53 gave a remarkably precise description of how large Noah's Ark would have to be to accommodate all the animals on page 46, I did wonder how exactly Noah, his wife, his three sons and their partners were supposed to clear out all the shit by themselves. I very seriously doubt that the pair of Dung Beetles on board the Ark would have been THAT much help either..... :-k
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Artimis on Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:57 am

Hurrah! Page 50 completed, Noah's Ark must have been utilising Tardis technology to pack enough food for all 100,000 animals onboard for 40 days and 40 nights. Also Noah and his family were the very model of time and motion efficiency when it came to distributing the food and then removing the resultant crap afterwards. :D
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:34 pm

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Dramatic Reenactment of Artimis' Journey through this Thread.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby crispybits on Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:56 pm

I particularly liked the bit on that page where they said that thing about the stuff that happened like, ages ago and how that proves the other stuff about that big thing someone said about. Particularly when they backed it up with some other stuff someone smart said right before he said "but those wotsits are bogus man!"
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Frigidus on Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:05 pm

I hope you don't think you're almost done, you've got so much more to catch up on.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1562
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby crispybits on Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:10 pm

lol 387 pages (and that's before we start on this - only 230 pages, but even more of the joy of Lionz is contained within)
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Artimis on Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:28 pm

crispybits wrote:lol 387 pages (and that's before we start on this - only 230 pages, but even more of the joy of Lionz is contained within)


So if An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance. is the equivalent of Mount Everest then Post Any Evidence For God Here would be K2?....... No thanks, I'll pass!
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby crispybits on Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:49 pm

More like Unproven Hypothesis is Mont Blanc, Evidence for God is Mount McKinley, and Logical God is Everest (North Face)

And I would go find a few of Lionz' posts in either of the other 2 if you can - they really are works of art (you'll know what I'm talking about the second you see one - very hard to miss)
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