Conquer Club

Posted: **Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:41 am**

tzor wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:But some 3,000 years ago It was revealed that the Universe did have a beginning. Who could make up something like this? In no other religious book or religious writings do you see such a bold statement as...

"IN THE BEGINNING..."

Those three words alone strongly state the fact that there was a beginning to everything; That this universe did in fact begin. And this statement was only made in the Bible and 3,000 years before it could be known as truth.

Actually, no and no. But let's look at the actual text, according to the The New American Bible, Revised Edition (NABRE).

"In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth"

Now, it's true that Biblical footnotes (especially good Catholic Bibles) tend to be wordy, but notice that your assertion that no other religious work would have such a statement is flat out false; it was common among creation stories at the time. What is not common among those stories that typically involved conflict and wars between gods to create what the people saw around them was the methodical formation of the universe merely by the word of God.

Why don't we just keep this simple man??? Just show me another religious book or writing that indicates that our universe had a beginning? That's all.

See, you say that the above statement is false and then you dodge by going into some grey area that has absolutely nothing to do with the statement. That is the same thing that evolutionary scientist do when trying to explain evolution....

"Duh, Well no, there presently is no real fossil evidence at this time to support the claim that the theory of evolution is real and we are just making shit up as we go along, but hey look, germs and microbes change into other germs and microbes so that could be taken as evidence that dinosaurs evolved into birds and man from some common ape like creature??? Duh."
-Evolutionary Scientist

Posted: **Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:13 am**

Viceroy63 wrote:Why don't we just keep this simple man??? Just show me another religious book or writing that indicates that our universe had a beginning? That's all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_mythology#Cosmogony_and_cosmology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theogony

The most widely accepted version at the time, although a philosophical account of the beginning of things, is reported by Hesiod, in his Theogony. He begins with Chaos, a yawning nothingness. Out of the void emerged Gaia (the Earth) and some other primary divine beings: Eros (Love), the Abyss (the Tartarus), and the Erebus.[24]

First there's nothing, then there's stuff.

Posted: **Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:16 am**

Viceroy63 wrote:
Why don't we just keep this simple man??? Just show me another religious book or writing that indicates that our universe had a beginning? That's all.

All of them do. They provide different answers, but essentially every religious text has some kind of answer. Some are even remarkably similar to the Bible's view.

Viceroy63 wrote:

"Duh, Well no, there presently is no real fossil evidence at this time to support the claim that the theory of evolution is real and we are just making shit up as we go along, but hey look, germs and microbes change into other germs and microbes so that could be taken as evidence that dinosaurs evolved into birds and man from some common ape like creature??? Duh."
-Evolutionary Scientist

No, more like.. here is the evidence... review it for yourself. We have posted links to various sources, pieces of information, but you continue to ignore them.

You also ignored my Biblically based explanations, ctiticisms of YOUR views.

That's why you are a troll ..

OH, yeah... even your supposedly honest poll has no real options regarding evolution. Evolution is based not on lies, but upon evidence. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away, doesn't make it false, it just makes you ignorant.. or worse, an active deciever.

Posted: **Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:34 pm**

Viceroy63 wrote:But some 3,000 years ago It was revealed that the Universe did have a beginning. Who could make up something like this? In no other religious book or religious writings do you see such a bold statement as...

"IN THE BEGINNING..."

Those three words alone strongly state the fact that there was a beginning to everything; That this universe did in fact begin. And this statement was only made in the Bible and 3,000 years before it could be known as truth.

I see "ONCE UPON A TIME" used in books a lot too.

I don't think it proves the story was real though. :roll:

Also, The story that begins "A LONG TIME AGO, IN A GALAXY FAR AWAY", seems to disprove your 6000 year hypothesis.

Please do your research before posting. It makes you look like a liar. :lol:

Also, you forgot the option: Stupid idiots will never understand science.

Posted: **Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:00 pm**

Posted: **Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:15 pm**

Viceroy63 wrote:Why don't we just keep this simple man??? Just show me another religious book or writing that indicates that our universe had a beginning? That's all.

You know, you really are easy. Too easy. So easy I wonder why I spend my time with Google. I'm horrid with Google. It took me one try. Here is the basis for the Genesis story, the creation myth of Babylon. The Enuma Elish.

When on high the heaven had not been named,
Firm ground below had not been called by name,
When primordial Apsu, their begetter,
And Mummu-Tiamat, she who bore them all,
Their waters mingled as a single body,
No reed hut had sprung forth, no marshland had appeared,
None of the gods had been brought into being,
And none bore a name, and no destinies determined--
Then it was that the gods were formed in the midst of heaven.
Lahmu and Lahamu were brought forth, by name they were called.

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:26 am**

Nice try tzor, but there is no reference to a beginning in that account you posted. Only a fixed point in time with an indication of a prior history. That's not the same thing that I ask for. Perhaps you are too easy?

"IN THE BEGINNING..." is a definite statement of the facts. It was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.

"IN THE BEGINNING, God Created the Heaven and the earth!"

Simple, to the point and revealed knowledge that could not be proven at the time but it is now. However evolution taking millions of years to happen sounds more like a fairy tale, that happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Especially when there is no fossil evidence in support of the theory.

The theory of evolution is supported by lies like the Horse exhibit that is proven to be fabricated and every other exhibit that is used in support of this theory and have all been proven false as is demonstrated in this thread in the original post and throughout. All anyone has to do is read the OP. I even added links to other sources. And I am the one who is not providing evidence???? Hardly.

Not that you brought that up but others did and I wanted to mention it in this one comment post.

BTW: Do you notice a contradiction here...

"None of the gods had been brought into being,
And none bore a name, and no destinies determined--
Then it was that the gods were formed in the midst of heaven..."

Who formed those gods if none of them had been brought into being?

That's one hell of a complicated statement of the facts.

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:56 am**

how is this thread still alive?

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:31 am**

Viceroy63 wrote:Who formed those gods if none of them had been brought into being?

That's one hell of a complicated statement of the facts.

I could ask the same about yours. How could it be the beginning if something (God) already existed, and who formed him?

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:39 am**

crispybits wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:Who formed those gods if none of them had been brought into being?

That's one hell of a complicated statement of the facts.

I could ask the same about yours. How could it be the beginning if something (God) already existed, and who formed him?

He's the first cause,the uncaused cause,existing eternally outside of time and space...duh

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:42 am**

Yep - or in fallacy definition terms he is the exception that is begged :wink:

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:13 am**

Army of GOD wrote:how am I still alive?

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:28 am**

Viceroy63 wrote:"IN THE BEGINNING..." is a definite statement of the facts. It was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.

"IN THE BEGINNING" is a direct mis-translation of the Biblical Hebrew.

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:36 pm**

crispybits wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:Who formed those gods if none of them had been brought into being?

That's one hell of a complicated statement of the facts.

I could ask the same about yours. How could it be the beginning if something (God) already existed, and who formed him?

Crispy; Read the comment dude? That religious account is claiming that gods are formed. "Before any god came into being..." Read it again will ya? Also don't be confused. God does not exist within our confines. We exist within His. If there was no time we would cease to exist but God would not. He exist outside of time and space so is not effected by His own creation.

tzor wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:Why don't we just keep this simple man??? Just show me another religious book or writing that indicates that our universe had a beginning? That's all.

You know, you really are easy. Too easy. So easy I wonder why I spend my time with Google. I'm horrid with Google. It took me one try. Here is the basis for the Genesis story, the creation myth of Babylon. The Enuma Elish.

When on high the heaven had not been named,
Firm ground below had not been called by name,
When primordial Apsu, their begetter,
And Mummu-Tiamat, she who bore them all,
Their waters mingled as a single body,
No reed hut had sprung forth, no marshland had appeared,
None of the gods had been brought into being,
And none bore a name, and no destinies determined--
Then it was that the gods were formed in the midst of heaven.
Lahmu and Lahamu were brought forth, by name they were called.

The Bible makes no claim that God ever came into being but that God is eternal and outside of creation and not bounded by it. Yet this religious writ claims that the gods were created and yet logically it is a god that does the creating. It's like the question, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

Evolution in it's general meaning and principle proposes that life came from lifelessness. That from nothing came something. Think about it. Science acknowledges that before the "Big Bang" there was nothing. And then, somehow, it all just, exploded??? I might add, huh????????

Come on; Who is really talking fiction here. The Bible clearly states that There is a Beginning and that He is the Beginner of it all. There was nothing and then God made it all. It did not just happen and evolved from nothing from just some Big Bang alone. Any mathematician can tell you that no matter how much you multiply "0" the answer will always be "0". But God changes that equation. God is the only constant in the universe and outside of it.

And anyone who thinks that "IN THE BEGINNING..." is a mistranslation from the original Hebrew text should supply a reference to that statement. I simply dare ya!

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:21 pm**

Viceroy63 wrote:Any mathematician can tell you that no matter how much you multiply "0" the answer will always be "0".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indeterminate_form

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:37 pm**

Ah but all mathematicians are part of an international conspiracy to make money and avoid relabelling museum exhibits too.

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:47 pm**

crispybits wrote:

Actually, if they ONLY read the Bible, they would not be young earth creationists. That level of idiocy requires paying close attention to a group of people who's goal is to ensure that people doubt what the scientific community is putting forward... one has to ask why.

If one follows the money, it becomes pretty clear that religion is the very least of their real reasons. A lot of people follow under the misguided assumption that the information they are believing is supported by religion, but anyone bothering to actually research finds young earther "information" is almost misunderstandings so "pat", so carefully just to the side of the truth that its pretty clear they are created by people who actually know the real truth and are trying very hard to hide it, along with a number of just plain fraud.

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:38 pm**

Meh you're overthinking it Player - I just liked the fact it was a cavewoman Sarah Palin riding a T-Rex :lol:

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:07 am**

There really is no contradiction between true science and the truth of the Bible. The earth is very much older than 6,000 years but some thing happened and the earth became "void and desolate." The creation account of Genesis is really a recreation account because God did not create the earth void and desolate (Isaiah 45:18).

God has the power to create and to recreate all He wants. That is His prerogative. The problems comes in when religions can't cope with the truth. Especially that new religion of "Evolutionary Science" that claim that humans evolve from dirt and mud and have to make up lies and present it as "Evidence" in order to confuse and deceive the public to get the people to give them their money instead, without the people even being aware of the fact that they are being taken for fools and robbed.

Robbed of their tax payer dollars and of their understanding and logical thinking. Thus "The Rise of Ignorance," was a well selected choice of words for my article.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:01 am**

Timminz wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
-2Timothy 4:3-4

Ah, the books of Timothy: my favourite. They're the ones that I use to keep all the women in line.

"Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence."-1 Timothy 2:11,12

Such sage advice. The Bible is truth, and such a statement must be obeyed; otherwise, off to hell we go.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:10 pm**

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Timminz wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
-2Timothy 4:3-4

Ah, the books of Timothy: my favourite. They're the ones that I use to keep all the women in line.

"Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence."-1 Timothy 2:11,12

Such sage advice. The Bible is truth, and such a statement must be obeyed; otherwise, off to hell we go.

This only proves the narrowness of your mind and intellect! That you can read something into existence that is not there. Read the whole context of the book and not just the verse if you wish to gain a better understanding of what is meant in 1Timothy 2:11-12.

For the record the Bible is full of women who taught and prophesied to all the people both men and women. For example...

"And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time."
-Judges 4:4

To be a judge is to be a leader and an example of the people and for the people.

Although this is probably why you hold fast to the theory of evolution. Only a narrow mind, lacking in understanding, could read into existence something that is not really there.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:46 pm**

Viceroy. The very least you can do is read the Wikipedia page on genesis 1:1. I understand that the interpreter's bible is asking too much from you, but just read the wiki page and follow the sources labeled. You have been misinformed.

To paraphrase: the proper Hebrew can be understood as meaning either "In the Beginning" or "When, in the beginning". The second phrase has completely different meaning, and is the view that most biblical scholars hold today.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:19 pm**

Viceroy63 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Timminz wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
-2Timothy 4:3-4

Ah, the books of Timothy: my favourite. They're the ones that I use to keep all the women in line.

"Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence."-1 Timothy 2:11,12

Such sage advice. The Bible is truth, and such a statement must be obeyed; otherwise, off to hell we go.

This only proves the narrowness of your mind and intellect! That you can read something into existence that is not there. Read the whole context of the book and not just the verse if you wish to gain a better understanding of what is meant in 1Timothy 2:11-12.

For the record the Bible is full of women who taught and prophesied to all the people both men and women. For example...

"And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time."
-Judges 4:4

To be a judge is to be a leader and an example of the people and for the people.

Although this is probably why you hold fast to the theory of evolution. Only a narrow mind, lacking in understanding, could read into existence something that is not really there.

Ah, so expand on the context, if you will. Until then, "let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence."

I can just as easily say, This only proves the narrowness of your mind and intellect! That you can read something into existence that is not there. Read the whole context of the book and not just the verse if you wish to gain a better understanding of what is meant in Judges 4:4

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:28 pm**

Viceroy63 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Timminz wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
-2Timothy 4:3-4

Ah, the books of Timothy: my favourite. They're the ones that I use to keep all the women in line.

"Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence."-1 Timothy 2:11,12

Such sage advice. The Bible is truth, and such a statement must be obeyed; otherwise, off to hell we go.

This only proves the narrowness of your mind and intellect! That you can read something into existence that is not there. Read the whole context of the book and not just the verse if you wish to gain a better understanding of what is meant in 1Timothy 2:11-12.

For the record the Bible is full of women who taught and prophesied to all the people both men and women. For example...

"And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time."
-Judges 4:4

To be a judge is to be a leader and an example of the people and for the people.

Although this is probably why you hold fast to the theory of evolution. Only a narrow mind, lacking in understanding, could read into existence something that is not really there.

Well, I know of one woman who did an absolutely terrible job teaching.

And the point that the bible has many contradictions and cannot be taken literally has been the point we have been trying to make you see all along.

Its nice to see you agree there are contradictions now. Maybe that woman did a better job than I earlier suspected.

And speaking of contradictions, a truly narrow mind, would be incapable of reading into existence something that is not really there. That act would be labeled as a creative one, and while it may or may not result in a correct hypothesis, labeling it narrow, is just stupid, like everything else you've sprouted in here...no..its not stupid....this goes beyond stupid....

Its an obvious outright lie.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:12 pm**

Viceroy63 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Timminz wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
-2Timothy 4:3-4

Ah, the books of Timothy: my favourite. They're the ones that I use to keep all the women in line.

"Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence."-1 Timothy 2:11,12

Such sage advice. The Bible is truth, and such a statement must be obeyed; otherwise, off to hell we go.

This only proves the narrowness of your mind and intellect! That you can read something into existence that is not there. Read the whole context of the book and not just the verse if you wish to gain a better understanding of what is meant in 1Timothy 2:11-12.

For the record the Bible is full of women who taught and prophesied to all the people both men and women. For example...

"And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time."
-Judges 4:4

To be a judge is to be a leader and an example of the people and for the people.

Although this is probably why you hold fast to the theory of evolution. Only a narrow mind, lacking in understanding, could read into existence something that is not really there.

Kind of like God, right?

Conquer Club

An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.