The idea of where life started and how it has progressed has nothing to do with the question of God? Similar to the below quoted comments of ComicBoy, you are trying to quantify and split things into groups which cannot be split. I think it's quite basic that if there is no God or Gods, as some will have it, then He/She/They could not have had a hand in creation. Whereas if there is a God/s it would be difficult to say that our beginnings and continuation were without a contribution from such a source.
comic boy wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:I believe that the scientific method is to observe, hypothesize, test and analyze.
I observe that the theories either begin with a Big Bang or with a God. I hypothesize that either had to come from something. I test and I find that we cannot account for the source of either. Upon analyzing this, I decide that we have several potential results. I have provided these several possible results.
Without any backing you claim that Vic's position is dishonest. And therefore one of my possible positions. Unfortunately you claim to use a scientific method. I claim that I am a human being trying to decide a course in my life. We are discussing different topics.
You claim that mine is a rigid philosophical approach and yet I expect the outcome to be quite rigid. We will either melt into nothingness, merge into history, or experience eternity.
What do you claim? You claim that we should go with the scientific evidence that we have been provided with and not question any holes in it. This seems both unscientific and rigid. We cease to observe in such an approach and deny a possibility that 2/3's of the world's population more or less concurs with because it doesn't suit your point of view.
Firstly I was simply adding to your point, not addressing you , so in fact I was claiming nothing whatsoever in regard to you , do for goodness sake pay attention. Secondly you are making things up , I never indicated that science should not be questioned and I specifically stated that there was nothing wrong with taking a philosophical position. My point was that philosophy and science stand alone , you cant use one to disprove the other, this also seems to be your point so what on earth are you arguing against ?
Incidentally 2/3 of the worlds population most certainly do not challenge evolution , the vast majority of religious folk , including most theologians, accept the theory with the proviso that God supplied the initial building blocks.
I have encountered many theories related by religious folks supporting the idea of evolution, I was talking about the question of God. By default, atheists believe in evolution and therefore I approach the question from this angle.
You say that philosophy and evolution are not connected. I believe that is like saying a man's actions have no correlation to his specific situation. I myself really don't know or have a strong opinion on evolution as opposed to building block supplier, trial and error or pure creation. In general anyone who purports to, from whichever perspective you choose to regard it as coming from, has an agenda. The Church recognizes evolution not because it is consistent with their history but as a mechanism to regain their fading status as their influence continues to decline. While I am not familiar with the factual, and since it is a theory, hypothetical backs and forths on evolution, I am well acquainted with the despicable behavior of the Church.
What I seek is a personal path. The question of evolution is mired in contention between the potential paths I put forth. We continue to divide and conquer ourselves over points which in themselves we suggest pertain to larger questions, even if they aren't linked to the larger questions. We pursue our economic Gods, military Gods, entertainment Gods and forget a simple concept, we build up these 'great' pursuits at the benefit of those who succeed in them, we don't build up people in general. In our current society we succeed not by helping our society but by finding a way to reign over it. We have isolated ourselves in order to protect our hard-earned wealth, our views are criticized, not discussed. I think the question of evolution doesn't matter and will not in one whit change how we act as a society. We already know that when a big black dog mates with a small white one, their pups could look like either, both or neither. We know the likelihood of what it will look like and are generally able to control our breeding to produce the results we desire.
We can pursue these avenues, and we do. But the revolution, will it ever come? will not be a coup, or a great politician reforming the tax code, but a change in direction. A change from creating demigods out of each other to focusing on improving the lot of everyone overall. When instead of saying this will make me rich and famous, we say this will change the world forever.
Please do not point out technology or medical advances, those are pure bullshit. We withhold technology and build defunct mechanisms into them in order that we cat stimulate our economy. Sony has their five year, fifteen year and other plans. But their plans focus on themselves.
I enjoy the change in attitude over the last 20 or so years. Now we consider, or at least the media and government consider, bosses as to be supplying jobs; a few years ago we thought of them as stealing our lives away with shitty jobs, pay and general conditions. One company here received a 5 billion dollar contract from the government. They fired 200 people and the guy who did it got a half million dollar bonus. Speculation was here and there, but I never heard from any source the true reason, by re-establishing their employment market, he was killing seniority, could hire back people at less wages and even though in the short term they wouldn't be able to fulfill their current contracts, it would save them millions when the money starts coming in from the government deal.
He probably used a PPT to display this, and if you can't grasp the idea, I'm sorry. But imagine this, the part of the 5 billion dollar pie going to the workers on the project got smaller and the part going to the investors got bigger. This is happening everyday while we sit and bullshit about stuff that doesn't matter.
The reason that evolution doesn't matter is simple: if we have a creationist theory, we are all brothers and sisters, and if we have an evolution theory, we are all brothers and sisters. Why don't we start treating each other as brothers and sisters and instead of sharing a pie where some people feel gratified that they get a bigger piece, we just make more pies?
I bet that most people who use this site, just as most people in North America these days, have preventative jobs. You work for the phone company, cable any services industry in general, you aren't helping people get cable, you are helping people get past the barriers put in place by the company to stop people from getting cable, internet, etc. But they need money to do what they do, otherwise why would they bother?
We have the concept of ME and not WE. The population of Canada hasn't greatly increased in the last 30 years and inflation has been kept low, roughly 2% per annum, yet house prices have sky-rocketed in comparison and house ownership has fallen. Why? It makes no economic sense, unless we consider that we are more and more isolated from each other and require greater amounts of personal space. This is the world we have created for ourselves and each person who can promote divisions between us is able to gain from it. These are the people our evolution/creation societies reward.
Evolution? Creation? Who really gives a f*ck? Choose your path and the world will be a better place. Use reason and logic, trial and error and we will find our own answers. And if someone doesn't agree, so what? That's their right, respect it as you do your own right.