An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

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What are the facts? Please keep an open mind and read the article first before casting your vote.

While there is certainly proof that mutations do occur in nature; There is absolutely no real evidence to support the theory of evolution at this time (for over the past 150 years of "Dino-digging"). Including the sedimentary column.
17
26%
There probably is evidence to support this theory, yet scientist are at a loss to explain it appropriately.
17
26%
Scientist are great at making shit up when they have no evidence to prove something that is false to begin with.
8
12%
I believe in Santa. He's a real person that lives all the way deep at the north pole and brings me presents every year. The presents prove that he's real. I also leave him milk and cookies to snack on and while I don't ever see him, I just know with all my heart, that he is the one who eats all the cookies and milk. Or, I wish I had a dogasaur like Dino.
23
35%
 
Total votes : 65

Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby AAFitz on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:28 am

I think this quote sums up this thread in a nutshell, and even in a balanced way, depending upon your...err...volume level.

So no, there's no shortage of keen scientific minds in America. We just can't build enough scientist playpens to hold them all, even though the U.S. still has more research institutes than anywhere else in the world. But it's not just colleges. Everyone's favorite whipping boy, the American education system, is also doing way better than you might think. Based on the K-12 Trends in International Math and Science Study tests, the U.S. has more high-scoring kids than any other country, rivaling Japan and Korea in math, of all subjects. So the U.S. has a whole closet full of smarty pants, thank you. It's just that we have a lot of dumb people, too, and our dumb people are really, really loud.


From Cracked.

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_20230_5- ... z2K2DxmUm2
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby chang50 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:04 am

AAFitz wrote:I think this quote sums up this thread in a nutshell, and even in a balanced way, depending upon your...err...volume level.

So no, there's no shortage of keen scientific minds in America. We just can't build enough scientist playpens to hold them all, even though the U.S. still has more research institutes than anywhere else in the world. But it's not just colleges. Everyone's favorite whipping boy, the American education system, is also doing way better than you might think. Based on the K-12 Trends in International Math and Science Study tests, the U.S. has more high-scoring kids than any other country, rivaling Japan and Korea in math, of all subjects. So the U.S. has a whole closet full of smarty pants, thank you. It's just that we have a lot of dumb people, too, and our dumb people are really, really loud.


From Cracked.

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_20230_5- ... z2K2DxmUm2


This tallies with my personal experience,all the Americans I have met on my travels have been really nice,but you step into cyberspace and wow..
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby AAFitz on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:23 am

chang50 wrote:
AAFitz wrote:I think this quote sums up this thread in a nutshell, and even in a balanced way, depending upon your...err...volume level.

So no, there's no shortage of keen scientific minds in America. We just can't build enough scientist playpens to hold them all, even though the U.S. still has more research institutes than anywhere else in the world. But it's not just colleges. Everyone's favorite whipping boy, the American education system, is also doing way better than you might think. Based on the K-12 Trends in International Math and Science Study tests, the U.S. has more high-scoring kids than any other country, rivaling Japan and Korea in math, of all subjects. So the U.S. has a whole closet full of smarty pants, thank you. It's just that we have a lot of dumb people, too, and our dumb people are really, really loud.


From Cracked.

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_20230_5- ... z2K2DxmUm2


This tallies with my personal experience,all the Americans I have met on my travels have been really nice,but you step into cyberspace and wow..


To be fair, I presume the age level drops quite a bit too. And at the same time, with a few exceptions, I dont think anyone is as exaggerated in real life as they are in here. I can more or less relate and get along with anyone, and almost none of these subjects come up in real life.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby chang50 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:45 am

AAFitz wrote:
chang50 wrote:
AAFitz wrote:I think this quote sums up this thread in a nutshell, and even in a balanced way, depending upon your...err...volume level.

So no, there's no shortage of keen scientific minds in America. We just can't build enough scientist playpens to hold them all, even though the U.S. still has more research institutes than anywhere else in the world. But it's not just colleges. Everyone's favorite whipping boy, the American education system, is also doing way better than you might think. Based on the K-12 Trends in International Math and Science Study tests, the U.S. has more high-scoring kids than any other country, rivaling Japan and Korea in math, of all subjects. So the U.S. has a whole closet full of smarty pants, thank you. It's just that we have a lot of dumb people, too, and our dumb people are really, really loud.


From Cracked.

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_20230_5- ... z2K2DxmUm2


This tallies with my personal experience,all the Americans I have met on my travels have been really nice,but you step into cyberspace and wow..


To be fair, I presume the age level drops quite a bit too. And at the same time, with a few exceptions, I dont think anyone is as exaggerated in real life as they are in here. I can more or less relate and get along with anyone, and almost none of these subjects come up in real life.


Fair points...perhaps the loud dumb people stay at home more,possibly..
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby jonesthecurl on Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:47 pm

jonesthecurl wrote:More maths:

50,000 species = 100,000 creatures, not including births.
A sheep eats about 4-5 pounds of food a day, a lion 10-20. (note: smaller specimens often eat more because they are are growing.
Let's assume 4 pounds of food per creature per day.
That's 400,000 pounds of food per day. And a similar amount of crap.
So the eight people each need to deliver 50,000 lbs of food per day, and muck out 50,000 pounds of crap.
If they work 24 hours a day, never sleeping or eating themselves, then they need to deliver about 34 lbs per minute each.
And take away a lot of crap.


Hmmm. Gone a bit quiet, hasn't it?
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:31 am

Viceroy63 wrote:A Cubit is approximately 18 inches or 1.5 feet.

At 300 Cubits Long, the Ark would be approximately 450 feet Long.
At 50 Cubits Wide, the Ark would have a width of approximately 75 feet.
At 30 Cubits High, the Ark would have a Height of 45 feet.

That's as tall if not taller than a modern four story apartment building and as wide and as long as a city block. Or put another way, it would have more than half the volume of space then the HMS Titanic. I would estimate 70 to 80 percent because the Ark is much more wider than the Titanic.

The Ark is definitely larger than a foot ball field at 300 feet Long from goal post to goal post and almost as wide.

So get your facts straight people. That's...

BIIIIG!!!

Image

AndyDufresne wrote:How much would Noah's Ark weigh, and how much water would it displace?

--Andy


The displacement tonnage of the ark, which is the weight of water it would displace at a draught of 15 cubits, would be more than 22,000 tons. By comparison the U.S.S. Salem, a 716 foot long (218 meters) heavy cruiser commissioned in 1949, has a displacement tonnage of 21,500 tons. The gross tonnage, which is a measure of cubic space (100 cubic feet is one gross ton), would be 15,100 tons.
http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/was- ... imals.html

BIG FAT REFERENCE JUST ABOVE! SEE?

Regardless, this is not even close to being large enough to contain 2 of every living species on Earth. The story you believe the Bible tells is not possible.

There are several other real possibilities.

1. That the ark was something like Snoopy's doghouse or Mary Poppin's bag... outside of time and place so that the space available was greater than that visible from the outside. Possible, certainly, given God.. but not what the Bible says.

2. The Bible is just wrong. An easy answer and favored by people who are neither Christian or Jewish, but not acceptable to those of the faiths. Though favored by some non-Crhistians, it is not worth debating in Christianity.

3. The story was never intended to be taken entirely literally. The point was that people sinned and God took action, but it was such a destructive action he won't do it again. Some say that the details were put in, really by humans, because they needed those details to understand God's story/message. Others say that the details are true, but not in the way literalists tend to think. Again, this one gives a lot of Christians and Jews pause. Some within the faith do believe this, but many don't.

4.That the story is true, but because the awareness of others, outside areas was minimal or non-existant, the people would truly understand the "world" to be their whole world of experience, not the whole round ball that we today know is the entire world. This would be consistant with the Babylonian text, because true stories will often permeate through mutliple societies. That the Jews did not write it down is irrelevant because they had a strong oral tradition at that time. Not all was written down.

5. That the story refers to true events, but many details were distorted over the very, very, very long time. It might have been included within the Bible because it gave an important lesson and was considered too true by the people for them to consider it might not be accurate. That, too, is not an easy idea for many Christians.


NOT included:
That the flood did away with dinosaurs. There are many reasons this is not true, beginning with the fact that almost all, if not all dinosaurs were gone when humans came onto the scene. A more important religious reason is that dinosaurs were not mentioned at all in the Bible. Early people had no real awareness of Dinosaurs. (no, references to "behemouths' and the like are not referring to dinosaurs.. certainly not in the numbers that were prevalent at one time on Earth). The Bible gives a very good record of modern, known animals, but not ancient ones. That is because the Bible is a history of humanity and faith, not a natural history of the world, not a scientific text.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:39 am

Viceroy63 wrote:What "assumptions" are you talking about?

If it's about the theory of evolution not being factual, That is not an assumption.

Here we begin with your misunderstandings.

Set aside that you are the only one claiming that the full theory evolution is proven fact. No scientists does that. Parts of it have been proven, but again, that is not even relevant to your statement, per se.

The problem is that what you call "proof" is really just assumptions and accusations made by people who have mostly not studied the science involved. Simply saying "nyah, nyah.. you are wrong and stupid for thinking you are correct" just is not evidence, sorry.

Beyond that, several of us actually have some direct experience with proofs of evolution. You dismiss our first hand accounts as if we were idiots... then point to some website with a supposed "expert" as if anyone posting on the internet must be more knowledgable.

And, most of your critiques are just plain wrong when tracked down.. not that you bother to do that tracking. You just plain ASSUME you have been told the truth... and then try to laugh at our "ignorance".
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Neoteny on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:07 am

A serious question for Viceroy or Premio or whoever: what is the creationist rationalization for ring species like the Ensatina salamanders?
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:08 pm

Neoteny wrote:A serious question for Viceroy or Premio or whoever: what is the creationist rationalization for ring species like the Ensatina salamanders?

What do you mean (I ask because if I am confused, I am guessing others might be as well?)
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Viceroy63 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:21 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:What "assumptions" are you talking about?

If it's about the theory of evolution not being factual, That is not an assumption.

Here we begin with your misunderstandings.

Set aside that you are the only one claiming that the full theory evolution is proven fact. No scientists does that. Parts of it have been proven, but again, that is not even relevant to your statement, per se.

The problem is that what you call "proof" is really just assumptions and accusations made by people who have mostly not studied the science involved. Simply saying "nyah, nyah.. you are wrong and stupid for thinking you are correct" just is not evidence, sorry.

Beyond that, several of us actually have some direct experience with proofs of evolution. You dismiss our first hand accounts as if we were idiots... then point to some website with a supposed "expert" as if anyone posting on the internet must be more knowledgable.

And, most of your critiques are just plain wrong when tracked down.. not that you bother to do that tracking. You just plain ASSUME you have been told the truth... and then try to laugh at our "ignorance".


If you want to call yourself an idiot then that's your prerogative. Ignorance is not an insult and I am certainly not trying to insult anyone. It sounds to me like you have not even read the Original Post because you are not arguing the data and info provided but instead making up allegation that I am assuming all of this and providing no resources for my words. All of my words are backed with sources and links right in the OP and it is not what I am say but what other scientist are saying also. I just happen to agree with the available and observable facts of the data provided. The examples of evolution found in text books and museums are just a hoax for money.


If evolution was a fact then there would not be a division or even a controversy!
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby b.k. barunt on Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:03 am

DoomYoshi wrote:[quote=BK BARUNT]
You must be a sleazy Catholic. Welcome to the Foe!
[/quote]

I don't recall saying that, but given my contempt for Catholicism it could have slipped out . . . no, i don't really use the word "sleazy", and i have no idea what you mean by "welcome to the foe". Did you make that "quote" up?


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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby comic boy on Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:10 am

Viceroy63 wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:What "assumptions" are you talking about?

If it's about the theory of evolution not being factual, That is not an assumption.

Here we begin with your misunderstandings.

Set aside that you are the only one claiming that the full theory evolution is proven fact. No scientists does that. Parts of it have been proven, but again, that is not even relevant to your statement, per se.

The problem is that what you call "proof" is really just assumptions and accusations made by people who have mostly not studied the science involved. Simply saying "nyah, nyah.. you are wrong and stupid for thinking you are correct" just is not evidence, sorry.

Beyond that, several of us actually have some direct experience with proofs of evolution. You dismiss our first hand accounts as if we were idiots... then point to some website with a supposed "expert" as if anyone posting on the internet must be more knowledgable.

And, most of your critiques are just plain wrong when tracked down.. not that you bother to do that tracking. You just plain ASSUME you have been told the truth... and then try to laugh at our "ignorance".


If you want to call yourself an idiot then that's your prerogative. Ignorance is not an insult and I am certainly not trying to insult anyone. It sounds to me like you have not even read the Original Post because you are not arguing the data and info provided but instead making up allegation that I am assuming all of this and providing no resources for my words. All of my words are backed with sources and links right in the OP and it is not what I am say but what other scientist are saying also. I just happen to agree with the available and observable facts of the data provided. The examples of evolution found in text books and museums are just a hoax for money.


If evolution was a fact then there would not be a division or even a controversy!





There is no division or controversy , just a bunch of young earth creationists making a lot of noise but very little sense. The fact is that 99.9 % of scientists agree with evolutionary theory , thats an overwhelming endorsement , your views are based on narrow minded dogma alone.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Neoteny on Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:10 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Neoteny wrote:A serious question for Viceroy or Premio or whoever: what is the creationist rationalization for ring species like the Ensatina salamanders?

What do you mean (I ask because if I am confused, I am guessing others might be as well?)


From an old discussion with d1g.

Neoteny wrote:There is a species of plethodontid salamander (Ensatina eschscholtzi if anyone cares) that lives in California. Its range is over a good chunk of the state making an upside down (assuming you think north is up, of course) "U" around the Great Central Valley of California. There are a series of seven subspecies that populate the "U," one starting in the mountains of SoCal, one starting in the San Francisco area, and onward around the valley. Here's a pic to illustrate:

Image

The subspecies all interbreed as they go around the "U" making them one species according to the most commonly accepted species theory. However, at the tips of the "U," the first and final subspecies successfully interbreed very rarely, if at all (in some areas they barely can, in others they cannot at all). So now what do we call the populations that cannot interbreed? Are they a different species? If so, where do we draw the line? This is speciation in action, whether we can define it or not, and it illustrates a key point. People take for granted the idea of a species because it is generally clear-cut. A dog cannot successfully mate with a cat. A horse can breed with a donkey, but the offspring is always unfertile. This is not the case with these salamanders. In two subspecies, interbreeding is all but impossible, but if you follow the trail around the valley, it is easy to interbreed. My point is that if you don't understand the species concept that speciation theory is based on, you cannot understand speciation. The case of the salamanders also illustrates how evolution in general works. It is not a parade, but a branching that occurs. Sure it occurs in a timescale we can't observe, but this is a unique and telling snapshot.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Viceroy63 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:49 pm

comic boy wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:What "assumptions" are you talking about?

If it's about the theory of evolution not being factual, That is not an assumption.

Here we begin with your misunderstandings.

Set aside that you are the only one claiming that the full theory evolution is proven fact. No scientists does that. Parts of it have been proven, but again, that is not even relevant to your statement, per se.

The problem is that what you call "proof" is really just assumptions and accusations made by people who have mostly not studied the science involved. Simply saying "nyah, nyah.. you are wrong and stupid for thinking you are correct" just is not evidence, sorry.

Beyond that, several of us actually have some direct experience with proofs of evolution. You dismiss our first hand accounts as if we were idiots... then point to some website with a supposed "expert" as if anyone posting on the internet must be more knowledgable.

And, most of your critiques are just plain wrong when tracked down.. not that you bother to do that tracking. You just plain ASSUME you have been told the truth... and then try to laugh at our "ignorance".


If you want to call yourself an idiot then that's your prerogative. Ignorance is not an insult and I am certainly not trying to insult anyone. It sounds to me like you have not even read the Original Post because you are not arguing the data and info provided but instead making up allegation that I am assuming all of this and providing no resources for my words. All of my words are backed with sources and links right in the OP and it is not what I am say but what other scientist are saying also. I just happen to agree with the available and observable facts of the data provided. The examples of evolution found in text books and museums are just a hoax for money.


If evolution was a fact then there would not be a division or even a controversy!





There is no division or controversy , just a bunch of young earth creationists making a lot of noise but very little sense. The fact is that 99.9 % of scientists agree with evolutionary theory , thats an overwhelming endorsement , your views are based on narrow minded dogma alone.


Just where do you get that figure from anyway? Nice to know that you don't have to provide a link to back you up huh?
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby jonesthecurl on Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:54 pm

Abandoned the ark's dietary requirements now have we?
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
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