Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

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Should Schools Have an Armed Professional on Campus?

Yes
17
26%
Sounds like a good idea
5
8%
Maybe
2
3%
Sounds like a bad idea
9
14%
No
30
46%
IDK
2
3%
 
Total votes : 65

Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:06 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:we should be worried about eliminating the possibility that someone can wipe out almost 30 people, completely unopposed...

I think if people knew there were armed people in schools, they would not target schools nearly as much


What do you think is more important -- to reduce the number of people who die in spree shootings, or the number of people who die in gun-related violence in general, including all of the isolated incidents?


I think it's most important that people have a means to defend themselves at all times and in all places, whatever the situation


So you would think that we should arm more people even if arming these people more resulted in more gun deaths?
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:18 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:we should be worried about eliminating the possibility that someone can wipe out almost 30 people, completely unopposed...

I think if people knew there were armed people in schools, they would not target schools nearly as much


What do you think is more important -- to reduce the number of people who die in spree shootings, or the number of people who die in gun-related violence in general, including all of the isolated incidents?


I think it's most important that people have a means to defend themselves at all times and in all places, whatever the situation


So you would think that we should arm more people even if arming these people more resulted in more gun deaths?


I don't think it's realistic for you to assume that the people we are talking about here, teachers/principles/guards, are going to go on shooting sprees, or shoot people that will result in more gun deaths.

I think everything you say is based on "guns are bad, guns are the problem, guns are evil..." if you admit that to be the case, then understand we aren't going to be communicating very well. Just bein honest
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby crispybits on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:40 pm

and if Lansa hadn't had a gun, then 18-20 of those children would have been saved by a miracle too
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:53 pm

crispybits wrote:and if Lansa hadn't had a gun, then 18-20 of those children would have been saved by a miracle too


that is not realistic
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:53 pm

Phatscotty wrote:I don't think it's realistic for you to assume that the people we are talking about here, teachers/principles/guards, are going to go on shooting sprees, or shoot people that will result in more gun deaths.


I didn't assume that, but I certainly don't have the evidence to suggest that it would result in fewer gun deaths. What I am asking is, if such evidence did exist, like if the number of accidental deaths due to the increased number of guns outweighed the number who died in shooting sprees, would you still support it?

I think everything you say is based on "guns are bad, guns are the problem, guns are evil..." if you admit that to be the case, then understand we aren't going to be communicating very well. Just bein honest


Everything I say is based on cautious respect for the fact that guns are tools of violence. There's nothing pretty about owning guns, whether a criminal is shooting someone in a burglary or whether the homeowner shoots the criminal in self-defense. Death is always ugly to me.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:02 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I don't think it's realistic for you to assume that the people we are talking about here, teachers/principles/guards, are going to go on shooting sprees, or shoot people that will result in more gun deaths.


I didn't assume that, but I certainly don't have the evidence to suggest that it would result in fewer gun deaths. What I am asking is, if such evidence did exist, like if the number of accidental deaths due to the increased number of guns outweighed the number who died in shooting sprees, would you still support it?


It makes sense to me that the more guns, the more possibilities for accidents, so I wouldn't even dispute that. I would only put less weight into the evidence than you might because I wouldn't even compare the accident rate unless it were even close to the violent crime rate/homicide rate/burglary rate/car-jacking rate etc etc etc etc There are also unforseen consequences down the road, such as if there are less guns or no guns, there would be less people able to use them for protection, therefore more victims of whatever edge the criminals have over the law abiding. What about the victim rate?

I think everything you say is based on "guns are bad, guns are the problem, guns are evil..." if you admit that to be the case, then understand we aren't going to be communicating very well. Just bein honest


Metsfanmax wrote:Everything I say is based on cautious respect for the fact that guns are tools of violence. There's nothing pretty about owning guns, whether a criminal is shooting someone in a burglary or whether the homeowner shoots the criminal in self-defense. Death is always ugly to me.


I don't disagree with that too much, again I just put more weight into the perspective that it's human nature that is ugly, and should not be ignored.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby muy_thaiguy on Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:31 pm

I need to make this clear, I have no problem with people privately owning guns, so long as they are responsible and have had background checks.

But putting guns in schools? Yeah, because every 5 year old needs to see a gun-toting guy everyday. Brilliant idea. Let the kids live in fear, as the guns would be a daily reminder that they are not safe.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:34 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:I need to make this clear, I have no problem with people privately owning guns, so long as they are responsible and have had background checks.

But putting guns in schools? Yeah, because every 5 year old needs to see a gun-toting guy everyday. Brilliant idea. Let the kids live in fear, as the guns would be a daily reminder that they are not safe.


but that isn't reality either. Guns are usually concealed, and sometimes are in a safe and not being carried at all. And the children who see a gun everyday is not automatically as scared as you are. Maybe some understand it's for protection, maybe others understand it's all about who has the gun, and for what reason.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby crispybits on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:17 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
crispybits wrote:and if Lansa hadn't had a gun, then 18-20 of those children would have been saved by a miracle too


that is not realistic


I wonder about any country where it is "unrealistic" to make damn sure mentally ill people with violent tendencies find it near impossible to get hold of weapons of that effectiveness.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:28 pm

crispybits wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
crispybits wrote:and if Lansa hadn't had a gun, then 18-20 of those children would have been saved by a miracle too


that is not realistic


I wonder about any country where it is "unrealistic" to make damn sure mentally ill people with violent tendencies find it near impossible to get hold of weapons of that effectiveness.


a weapon is a weapon. you just want to cut down the murderers effectiveness, but that does nothing for prevention, while it does make it harder for people to protect themselves

You would have a point if America was an island, or did not have a Second Amendment...
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby gordon1975 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:34 pm

can Amendments be bad and wrong? as in unchangeble ? could alway just ban bullets
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:40 pm

gordon1975 wrote:can Amendments be bad and wrong? as in unchangeble ? could alway just ban bullets


except for there are a lot of American Liberals who have a similar understanding as American Conservatives and everyone inbetween as to the purpose of our second amendment, and on that we are united, just as with the first amendment.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby gordon1975 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:42 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
gordon1975 wrote:can Amendments be bad and wrong? as in unchangeble ? could alway just ban bullets


except for there are a lot of American Liberals who have a similar understanding as American Conservatives and everyone inbetween as to the purpose of our second amendment, and on that we are united, just as with the first amendment.

bit of a politicians answer,yes or no?
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby HapSmo19 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:35 pm

Like it or not, I'll go ahead and bet there will be at least one gun carried into every school by a teacher or staff come wednesday.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:52 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I don't think it's realistic for you to assume that the people we are talking about here, teachers/principles/guards, are going to go on shooting sprees, or shoot people that will result in more gun deaths.


I didn't assume that, but I certainly don't have the evidence to suggest that it would result in fewer gun deaths. What I am asking is, if such evidence did exist, like if the number of accidental deaths due to the increased number of guns outweighed the number who died in shooting sprees, would you still support it?

I think everything you say is based on "guns are bad, guns are the problem, guns are evil..." if you admit that to be the case, then understand we aren't going to be communicating very well. Just bein honest


Everything I say is based on cautious respect for the fact that guns are tools of violence. There's nothing pretty about owning guns, whether a criminal is shooting someone in a burglary or whether the homeowner shoots the criminal in self-defense. Death is always ugly to me.


Reasonable points, Metsfanmax... If the numbers of accidental deaths in schools increased because teachers or administrators were carrying, then no, I wouldn't support them carrying.

But if you mean overall accidental deaths in the U.S. increasing because more people bought guns and didn't bother to learn how to take care of their tool, then no, it wouldn't change my mind about more people carrying, even in schools, for protection, but it might make me think the government should turn the NRA into a government office that provided REQUIRED training (rather than merely voluntary) for those who wish to purchase and/or carry.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Woodruff on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:45 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
crispybits wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
crispybits wrote:and if Lansa hadn't had a gun, then 18-20 of those children would have been saved by a miracle too


that is not realistic


I wonder about any country where it is "unrealistic" to make damn sure mentally ill people with violent tendencies find it near impossible to get hold of weapons of that effectiveness.


a weapon is a weapon. you just want to cut down the murderers effectiveness, but that does nothing for prevention, while it does make it harder for people to protect themselves


No it doesn't. True that cutting down the murderer's effectiveness is a HUGE part of this discussion (well, it should be, but you seem to want to ignore that part of it). But the fact of the matter is that the teacher who charged Lansa (you know, the one you were declaring a hero a bit ago) would have had a far greater chance of success if Lansa had a non-semi-automatic weapon, perhaps even just a knife, rather than what he had. Then they would have been "a hero who lived", as you said. So no, it DOESN'T make it harder for people to protect themselves in that sort of a situation, necessarily.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Woodruff on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:47 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
gordon1975 wrote:can Amendments be bad and wrong? as in unchangeble ? could alway just ban bullets


except for there are a lot of American Liberals who have a similar understanding as American Conservatives and everyone inbetween as to the purpose of our second amendment, and on that we are united, just as with the first amendment.


There are far more educated, responsible and reasonable liberals and conservatives who recognize that the Second Amendment is not infringed by reasonable restrictions. Just like every other right we have.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Woodruff on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:48 pm

HapSmo19 wrote:Like it or not, I'll go ahead and bet there will be at least one gun carried into every school by a teacher or staff come wednesday.


Highly unlikely to even be a significant number outside of those schools where it was already the case.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:20 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
crispybits wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
crispybits wrote:and if Lansa hadn't had a gun, then 18-20 of those children would have been saved by a miracle too


that is not realistic


I wonder about any country where it is "unrealistic" to make damn sure mentally ill people with violent tendencies find it near impossible to get hold of weapons of that effectiveness.


a weapon is a weapon. you just want to cut down the murderers effectiveness, but that does nothing for prevention, while it does make it harder for people to protect themselves


True that cutting down the murderer's effectiveness is a HUGE part of this discussion.


Also true that being able to defend yourself is better than being defenseless...and can cut down on the murderer's effectiveness
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:48 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
crispybits wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
crispybits wrote:and if Lansa hadn't had a gun, then 18-20 of those children would have been saved by a miracle too


that is not realistic


I wonder about any country where it is "unrealistic" to make damn sure mentally ill people with violent tendencies find it near impossible to get hold of weapons of that effectiveness.


a weapon is a weapon. you just want to cut down the murderers effectiveness, but that does nothing for prevention, while it does make it harder for people to protect themselves


True that cutting down the murderer's effectiveness is a HUGE part of this discussion.


Also true that being able to defend yourself is better than being defenseless...and can cut down on the murderer's effectiveness


It's too bad you cut out the relevant portions of my post to respond to a sound-bite. How very Fox Newsy of you.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:06 am

What is the alternative then? How do you stop a murderer who is shooting children in a school?
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:57 am

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
crispybits wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
crispybits wrote:and if Lansa hadn't had a gun, then 18-20 of those children would have been saved by a miracle too


that is not realistic


I wonder about any country where it is "unrealistic" to make damn sure mentally ill people with violent tendencies find it near impossible to get hold of weapons of that effectiveness.


a weapon is a weapon. you just want to cut down the murderers effectiveness, but that does nothing for prevention, while it does make it harder for people to protect themselves


No it doesn't. True that cutting down the murderer's effectiveness is a HUGE part of this discussion (well, it should be, but you seem to want to ignore that part of it). But the fact of the matter is that the teacher who charged Lansa (you know, the one you were declaring a hero a bit ago) would have had a far greater chance of success if Lansa had a non-semi-automatic weapon, perhaps even just a knife, rather than what he had. Then they would have been "a hero who lived", as you said. So no, it DOESN'T make it harder for people to protect themselves in that sort of a situation, necessarily.



Wrong, Woody. It only took ONE bullet to stop her, and it would have only taken ONE bullet from HER gun - if she had had a gun - to stop him!

So yes, it DOES make it harder to protect herself.

Last I heard, teachers can't carry knives at school, either, they're considered a weapon, and if they hide them, they're considered a CONCEALED weapon which can only legally be done with a permit - a concealed weapons permit, the same type of permit that allows people to carry concealed guns. Oh, but wait, the same ban of guns in schools also bans other concealed weapons in schools, so once again, unarmed teacher would've been going up against an armed maniac criminal.

So let's just say, it was a maniac criminal armed with a lethal, cruelly sharp hunting knife, because guns would be banned in your dreams. So, no guns. Just that lethal knife made for taking down big game in a man-vs-animal setting.

Picture it: mr. maniac could still slash unarmed teachers and defenseless little kids, and probably create even more terror doing it, because instead of blood seeping from holes it would be spurting all over the classrooms from severed arteries. Further, he could probably then have gotten into more classrooms before stopped, because his giant hunting knife wouldn't make a bang-bang noise, and it might take a while for people to realize kids screaming (if they still could, if they weren't shocked into silence after watching the spurting of blood all over the place) wasn't squeals of joy like at recess but squeals of terror.

"Laws" don't stop maniacs, woodruff. Laws merely keep honest people honest.

When confronted with a maniac, people need good defenses. Too bad those 'gun free zones' meant those kids' teachers had no defenses against the maniac.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:13 pm

Colorado school shooting over in 80 seconds, and only one person was shot by the Socialist BECAUSE THERE WAS A GOOD GUY WITH A GUN IN THE SCHOOL.

You heard it right, gun grabbers. The recent shooting in Colorado at Arapahoe High School happened to have a Deputy Sheriff on school grounds who was working as a school resource officer, according to a CNN report. He was in the vicinity of the shooter when the rampage began and was able to end the violence in 80 seconds. The initial reports were stating that the police took 14 minutes to arrive on the scene, but we are now learning that wasn’t what ended the shooting.

The rampage might have resulted in many more casualties had it not been for the quick response of a deputy sheriff who was working as a school resource officer at the school, Robinson said.

Once he learned of the threat, he ran — accompanied by an unarmed school security officer and two administrators — from the cafeteria to the library, Robinson said. “It’s a fairly long hallway, but the deputy sheriff got there very quickly.”

The deputy was yelling for people to get down and identified himself as a county deputy sheriff, Robinson said. “We know for a fact that the shooter knew that the deputy was in the immediate area and, while the deputy was containing the shooter, the shooter took his own life.”

He praised the deputy’s response as “a critical element to the shooter’s decision” to kill himself, and lauded his response to hearing gunshots. “He went to the thunder,” he said. “He heard the noise of gunshot and, when many would run away from it, he ran toward it to make other people safe.”

Not even 24 hours ago, we posted an article discussing what we’ve learned since Sandy Hook and what we’re doing about it. Well, this is a perfect example of something we should be doing across the country.

While you’re here, this is a perfect opportunity to revisit The Illusion of the Gun Free Zone, as it fits like a perfectly matched puzzle piece.

We’re tired of being polite. This needs to be common practice.
ALLOW LEGALLY ARMED STAFF TO CARRY ON SCHOOL GROUNDS.
END GUN FREE ZONES.

Share this with as many people as you can, because these are the stories that don’t stay in the headlines for very long. It’s extremely important that people see these mass shootings when they end in this fashion. The media tends to give much more attention to the shootings that have a higher death toll. The reality is, the story above should have more coverage because of the low death toll and praise the officer for defusing a horrible situation that would have been much worse.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby mrswdk on Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:24 pm

It says in the story that the shooter took his life when he heard there was a sheriff nearby. So I guess now we can thank guns because the shooter used one to commit suicide, thus ending the rampage? :roll:
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:25 pm

Police are already permitted to carry guns in gun-free school zones. This could have happened in any state.
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