Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

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Should Schools Have an Armed Professional on Campus?

Yes
17
26%
Sounds like a good idea
5
8%
Maybe
2
3%
Sounds like a bad idea
9
14%
No
30
46%
IDK
2
3%
 
Total votes : 65

Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:06 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:we should be worried about eliminating the possibility that someone can wipe out almost 30 people, completely unopposed...

I think if people knew there were armed people in schools, they would not target schools nearly as much


What do you think is more important -- to reduce the number of people who die in spree shootings, or the number of people who die in gun-related violence in general, including all of the isolated incidents?


I think it's most important that people have a means to defend themselves at all times and in all places, whatever the situation


So you would think that we should arm more people even if arming these people more resulted in more gun deaths?
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:18 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:we should be worried about eliminating the possibility that someone can wipe out almost 30 people, completely unopposed...

I think if people knew there were armed people in schools, they would not target schools nearly as much


What do you think is more important -- to reduce the number of people who die in spree shootings, or the number of people who die in gun-related violence in general, including all of the isolated incidents?


I think it's most important that people have a means to defend themselves at all times and in all places, whatever the situation


So you would think that we should arm more people even if arming these people more resulted in more gun deaths?


I don't think it's realistic for you to assume that the people we are talking about here, teachers/principles/guards, are going to go on shooting sprees, or shoot people that will result in more gun deaths.

I think everything you say is based on "guns are bad, guns are the problem, guns are evil..." if you admit that to be the case, then understand we aren't going to be communicating very well. Just bein honest
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby crispybits on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:40 pm

and if Lansa hadn't had a gun, then 18-20 of those children would have been saved by a miracle too
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:53 pm

crispybits wrote:and if Lansa hadn't had a gun, then 18-20 of those children would have been saved by a miracle too


that is not realistic
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:53 pm

Phatscotty wrote:I don't think it's realistic for you to assume that the people we are talking about here, teachers/principles/guards, are going to go on shooting sprees, or shoot people that will result in more gun deaths.


I didn't assume that, but I certainly don't have the evidence to suggest that it would result in fewer gun deaths. What I am asking is, if such evidence did exist, like if the number of accidental deaths due to the increased number of guns outweighed the number who died in shooting sprees, would you still support it?

I think everything you say is based on "guns are bad, guns are the problem, guns are evil..." if you admit that to be the case, then understand we aren't going to be communicating very well. Just bein honest


Everything I say is based on cautious respect for the fact that guns are tools of violence. There's nothing pretty about owning guns, whether a criminal is shooting someone in a burglary or whether the homeowner shoots the criminal in self-defense. Death is always ugly to me.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:02 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I don't think it's realistic for you to assume that the people we are talking about here, teachers/principles/guards, are going to go on shooting sprees, or shoot people that will result in more gun deaths.


I didn't assume that, but I certainly don't have the evidence to suggest that it would result in fewer gun deaths. What I am asking is, if such evidence did exist, like if the number of accidental deaths due to the increased number of guns outweighed the number who died in shooting sprees, would you still support it?


It makes sense to me that the more guns, the more possibilities for accidents, so I wouldn't even dispute that. I would only put less weight into the evidence than you might because I wouldn't even compare the accident rate unless it were even close to the violent crime rate/homicide rate/burglary rate/car-jacking rate etc etc etc etc There are also unforseen consequences down the road, such as if there are less guns or no guns, there would be less people able to use them for protection, therefore more victims of whatever edge the criminals have over the law abiding. What about the victim rate?

I think everything you say is based on "guns are bad, guns are the problem, guns are evil..." if you admit that to be the case, then understand we aren't going to be communicating very well. Just bein honest


Metsfanmax wrote:Everything I say is based on cautious respect for the fact that guns are tools of violence. There's nothing pretty about owning guns, whether a criminal is shooting someone in a burglary or whether the homeowner shoots the criminal in self-defense. Death is always ugly to me.


I don't disagree with that too much, again I just put more weight into the perspective that it's human nature that is ugly, and should not be ignored.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby muy_thaiguy on Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:31 pm

I need to make this clear, I have no problem with people privately owning guns, so long as they are responsible and have had background checks.

But putting guns in schools? Yeah, because every 5 year old needs to see a gun-toting guy everyday. Brilliant idea. Let the kids live in fear, as the guns would be a daily reminder that they are not safe.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:34 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:I need to make this clear, I have no problem with people privately owning guns, so long as they are responsible and have had background checks.

But putting guns in schools? Yeah, because every 5 year old needs to see a gun-toting guy everyday. Brilliant idea. Let the kids live in fear, as the guns would be a daily reminder that they are not safe.


but that isn't reality either. Guns are usually concealed, and sometimes are in a safe and not being carried at all. And the children who see a gun everyday is not automatically as scared as you are. Maybe some understand it's for protection, maybe others understand it's all about who has the gun, and for what reason.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby crispybits on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:17 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
crispybits wrote:and if Lansa hadn't had a gun, then 18-20 of those children would have been saved by a miracle too


that is not realistic


I wonder about any country where it is "unrealistic" to make damn sure mentally ill people with violent tendencies find it near impossible to get hold of weapons of that effectiveness.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:28 pm

crispybits wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
crispybits wrote:and if Lansa hadn't had a gun, then 18-20 of those children would have been saved by a miracle too


that is not realistic


I wonder about any country where it is "unrealistic" to make damn sure mentally ill people with violent tendencies find it near impossible to get hold of weapons of that effectiveness.


a weapon is a weapon. you just want to cut down the murderers effectiveness, but that does nothing for prevention, while it does make it harder for people to protect themselves

You would have a point if America was an island, or did not have a Second Amendment...
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby gordon1975 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:34 pm

can Amendments be bad and wrong? as in unchangeble ? could alway just ban bullets
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:40 pm

gordon1975 wrote:can Amendments be bad and wrong? as in unchangeble ? could alway just ban bullets


except for there are a lot of American Liberals who have a similar understanding as American Conservatives and everyone inbetween as to the purpose of our second amendment, and on that we are united, just as with the first amendment.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby gordon1975 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:42 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
gordon1975 wrote:can Amendments be bad and wrong? as in unchangeble ? could alway just ban bullets


except for there are a lot of American Liberals who have a similar understanding as American Conservatives and everyone inbetween as to the purpose of our second amendment, and on that we are united, just as with the first amendment.

bit of a politicians answer,yes or no?
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby HapSmo19 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:35 pm

Like it or not, I'll go ahead and bet there will be at least one gun carried into every school by a teacher or staff come wednesday.
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Re: Repeal Gun Free School Zones!?

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:52 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I don't think it's realistic for you to assume that the people we are talking about here, teachers/principles/guards, are going to go on shooting sprees, or shoot people that will result in more gun deaths.


I didn't assume that, but I certainly don't have the evidence to suggest that it would result in fewer gun deaths. What I am asking is, if such evidence did exist, like if the number of accidental deaths due to the increased number of guns outweighed the number who died in shooting sprees, would you still support it?

I think everything you say is based on "guns are bad, guns are the problem, guns are evil..." if you admit that to be the case, then understand we aren't going to be communicating very well. Just bein honest


Everything I say is based on cautious respect for the fact that guns are tools of violence. There's nothing pretty about owning guns, whether a criminal is shooting someone in a burglary or whether the homeowner shoots the criminal in self-defense. Death is always ugly to me.


Reasonable points, Metsfanmax... If the numbers of accidental deaths in schools increased because teachers or administrators were carrying, then no, I wouldn't support them carrying.

But if you mean overall accidental deaths in the U.S. increasing because more people bought guns and didn't bother to learn how to take care of their tool, then no, it wouldn't change my mind about more people carrying, even in schools, for protection, but it might make me think the government should turn the NRA into a government office that provided REQUIRED training (rather than merely voluntary) for those who wish to purchase and/or carry.
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