Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:08 pm

Just trying to be talkative, friend
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Symmetry on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:16 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Just trying to be talkative, friend


Ah the multifarious benefits of getting the unfoed message from you on my wall...
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby spurgistan on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:58 pm

This thread has now had the words "shambolic" and "multifarious."
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby chang50 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:06 am

spurgistan wrote:This thread has now had the words "shambolic" and "multifarious."


Shambolic is a portmanteau word,combining shambles and symbolic,like smog or brunch among others..an indication of our evolving language.
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:07 am

chang50 wrote:
spurgistan wrote:This thread has now had the words "shambolic" and "multifarious."


Shambolic is a portmanteau word,combining shambles and symbolic,like smog or brunch among others..an indication of our evolving language.


like moobs? (man boobs hehe)
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby chang50 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:11 am

Phatscotty wrote:Is the Queen the head of the Church of England?


But paradoxically she could not be a bishop..how bizarre is that?
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:33 am

chang50 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Is the Queen the head of the Church of England?


But paradoxically she could not be a bishop..how bizarre is that?


That's probably only a big deal to people who aint on the "shup" level
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:40 am

Do you realize the utter bias the title of this thread exudes?
It reads like the front page of a tabloid ffs.
Last edited by Funkyterrance on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:40 am

Funkyterrance wrote:Do you realize the utter bias the title of this thread exudes?


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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:42 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:Do you realize the utter bias the title of this thread exudes?


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No kidding.
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby crispybits on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:42 am

What would you rather the thread title was Funky T?
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby daddy1gringo on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:28 am

I think FT is referring to the claim that he is saying that it is gay marriage, and not the proposed legal action, that is undemocratic.

As I have said before, nobody is advocating laws that would prevent anyone from marrying whom they like. That is, to "love" whom they like, live with whom they like, sleep with whom they like, and to go to one of the many clergy who will perform the ceremony. All that people are saying is that there will be negative consequences from the government officially declaring that legally equal to traditional marriage.

You can, as always happens, go on to say that that is still unjust, and we could debate that point, but it is not the same thing and it is disingenuous to go on speaking as if it is.

Now in what I just said, I am speaking about the United States, but I believe it also applies to the UK, despite the different relationship between the church and the secular government.
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby crispybits on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:35 am

Couple of absolutely genuine questions from that post:

daddy1gringo wrote:All that people are saying is that there will be negative consequences from the government officially declaring that legally equal to traditional marriage.

You can, as always happens, go on to say that that is still unjust, and we could debate that point, but it is not the same thing and it is disingenuous to go on speaking as if it is.


What negative consequences will there be from making homosexual marriage legally equal to heterosexual marriage?

Why is homosexual marriage not the same thing as heterosexual marriage?

Edit - our government is less secular than yours - bishops of the church of england get seats in one of our parliament houses (house of lords) purely because they are bishops
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby daddy1gringo on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:54 am

crispybits wrote:Couple of absolutely genuine questions from that post:

daddy1gringo wrote:All that people are saying is that there will be negative consequences from the government officially declaring that legally equal to traditional marriage.

You can, as always happens, go on to say that that is still unjust, and we could debate that point, but it is not the same thing and it is disingenuous to go on speaking as if it is.


What negative consequences will there be from making homosexual marriage legally equal to heterosexual marriage?

Why is homosexual marriage not the same thing as heterosexual marriage?
I could legitimately get out of answering by saying, "you'd have to ask the archbishop who made the staement." Technically, I wasn't taking that position, but only pointing out a problem with the way the debate was framed up to this point (and usually is). However, although that would be true and legitimate, it would be a wussy thing to do.

Give me some time to get back to you with an answer worthy of absolutely genuine questions; this is a complex and sensitive subject.
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby MeDeFe on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:42 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Is the Queen the head of the Church of England?

Yes, but the C of E and the catholic church are different sects of christianity.
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:48 pm

ITT: Phatscotty, who routinely tells Symmetry that he doesn't understand how America works because he is from the UK, tells Symmetry that he doesn't understand how England works either.
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:49 pm

daddy1gringo wrote:
...a problem with the way the debate was framed up to this point (and usually is).


Yes, this.
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:05 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Is the Queen the head of the Church of England?

Yes, ostentiably.
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby jonesthecurl on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:06 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:ITT: Phatscotty, who routinely tells Symmetry that he doesn't understand how America works because he is from the UK, tells Symmetry that he doesn't understand how England works either.


Do correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't England swing like a pendulum do?
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby crispybits on Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:31 pm

If you means wing in a sexual sense, then I think we're one of the most self-suppressed nations in the developed world. Most of Europe has far more relaxed and comfortable relationships with sex than the brits do. We've still got a little bit of the Victorian era in our psyche. That said there are also plenty who have learned to ignore that bit of our identity too :)
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby jonesthecurl on Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:35 pm

Bobbies on bicycles two by two.
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby stahrgazer on Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:31 pm

crispybits wrote:What negative consequences will there be from making homosexual marriage legally equal to heterosexual marriage?
Why is homosexual marriage not the same thing as heterosexual marriage?


Hey, while you're asking, why isn't poly-marriage legal? If it's okay for a man to marry a man, and a woman to marry a woman, why isn't okay for a couple of one sex to marry one of the other, as long as they all agree?
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby jonesthecurl on Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:01 pm

Westminster Abbey, the tower of Big Ben.
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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:03 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:ITT: Phatscotty, who routinely tells Symmetry that he doesn't understand how America works because he is from the UK, tells Symmetry that he doesn't understand how England works either.


Clearly, I have been asking him. I stated nothing

see how ya are?

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Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby crispybits on Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:38 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
crispybits wrote:What negative consequences will there be from making homosexual marriage legally equal to heterosexual marriage?
Why is homosexual marriage not the same thing as heterosexual marriage?


Hey, while you're asking, why isn't poly-marriage legal? If it's okay for a man to marry a man, and a woman to marry a woman, why isn't okay for a couple of one sex to marry one of the other, as long as they all agree?


Personally I'd let anyone marrry anyone, so long as they are an adult, consenting, and informed of all other marriage contracts their spouse currently has active. If they are fine with that, then who am I to say they can't. There would need to be some rewriting of some laws, particularly tax laws so that marriage is not simply used as a way to get extra allowances, but that extra work shouldn't be allowed to be a barrier to a fair legal system which treats people of all genders, disabilities, ages, sexualities and races equally.

The below refers to US law rather than UK law but it's relevant just the same (just substitute the word "legal" in there instead of "constitutional"):

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