Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderators: Global Moderators, Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:48 pm

ITT: Phatscotty, who routinely tells Symmetry that he doesn't understand how America works because he is from the UK, tells Symmetry that he doesn't understand how England works either.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
 
Posts: 4284
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 43
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (7)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:49 pm

daddy1gringo wrote:
...a problem with the way the debate was framed up to this point (and usually is).


Yes, this.
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:05 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Is the Queen the head of the Church of England?

Yes, ostentiably.
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2585
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby jonesthecurl on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:06 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:ITT: Phatscotty, who routinely tells Symmetry that he doesn't understand how America works because he is from the UK, tells Symmetry that he doesn't understand how England works either.


Do correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't England swing like a pendulum do?
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class jonesthecurl
 
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:42 am
Location: disused action figure warehouse
Medals: 19
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby crispybits on Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:31 pm

If you means wing in a sexual sense, then I think we're one of the most self-suppressed nations in the developed world. Most of Europe has far more relaxed and comfortable relationships with sex than the brits do. We've still got a little bit of the Victorian era in our psyche. That said there are also plenty who have learned to ignore that bit of our identity too :)
User avatar
Major crispybits
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (9)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby jonesthecurl on Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:35 pm

Bobbies on bicycles two by two.
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class jonesthecurl
 
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:42 am
Location: disused action figure warehouse
Medals: 19
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby stahrgazer on Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:31 pm

crispybits wrote:What negative consequences will there be from making homosexual marriage legally equal to heterosexual marriage?
Why is homosexual marriage not the same thing as heterosexual marriage?


Hey, while you're asking, why isn't poly-marriage legal? If it's okay for a man to marry a man, and a woman to marry a woman, why isn't okay for a couple of one sex to marry one of the other, as long as they all agree?
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class stahrgazer
 
Posts: 1424
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am
Location: Figment of the Imagination...
Medals: 57
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Bot Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (8)
Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (7)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby jonesthecurl on Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:01 pm

Westminster Abbey, the tower of Big Ben.
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class jonesthecurl
 
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:42 am
Location: disused action figure warehouse
Medals: 19
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:03 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:ITT: Phatscotty, who routinely tells Symmetry that he doesn't understand how America works because he is from the UK, tells Symmetry that he doesn't understand how England works either.


Clearly, I have been asking him. I stated nothing

see how ya are?

:P
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 2378
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm
Medals: 94
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (5)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Training Achievement (9) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (13)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby crispybits on Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:38 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
crispybits wrote:What negative consequences will there be from making homosexual marriage legally equal to heterosexual marriage?
Why is homosexual marriage not the same thing as heterosexual marriage?


Hey, while you're asking, why isn't poly-marriage legal? If it's okay for a man to marry a man, and a woman to marry a woman, why isn't okay for a couple of one sex to marry one of the other, as long as they all agree?


Personally I'd let anyone marrry anyone, so long as they are an adult, consenting, and informed of all other marriage contracts their spouse currently has active. If they are fine with that, then who am I to say they can't. There would need to be some rewriting of some laws, particularly tax laws so that marriage is not simply used as a way to get extra allowances, but that extra work shouldn't be allowed to be a barrier to a fair legal system which treats people of all genders, disabilities, ages, sexualities and races equally.

The below refers to US law rather than UK law but it's relevant just the same (just substitute the word "legal" in there instead of "constitutional"):

Image
User avatar
Major crispybits
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (9)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby spurgistan on Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:52 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
crispybits wrote:What negative consequences will there be from making homosexual marriage legally equal to heterosexual marriage?
Why is homosexual marriage not the same thing as heterosexual marriage?


Hey, while you're asking, why isn't poly-marriage legal? If it's okay for a man to marry a man, and a woman to marry a woman, why isn't okay for a couple of one sex to marry one of the other, as long as they all agree?


No reason. In terms of political economics, it's probably because of the relatively small number of people who want to enter into group marriages. Also, probably because we first need to convince a lot of people that it's ok for a dude to enter into a marriage with one dudes, or at least wait for those opposed to die off. But there's no ethical reason why we should expand the definition of marriage to include dudes marrying dudes but hold the line at dudes marrying dudes and ladies (in much the same way there's no real ethical reason to allow dudes to marry ladies but not allow them to marry dudes), and most people who've accepted gay marriage also accept poly, by my rough polling.
Mr_Adams wrote:You, sir, are an idiot.


Timminz wrote:By that logic, you eat babies.
User avatar
Corporal spurgistan
 
Posts: 1589
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:30 pm
Location: Wormtown, MA, USA
Medals: 16
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:04 pm

Image

Women and children will not be spared.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4668
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Woodruff on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:39 am

Symmetry wrote:
crispybits wrote:Technically the Queen is still sovereign ruler, but all the power is with parliament and she's no more than a figurehead. The queens speech (well, the policy element) gets written for her by the government and she just adds in the personal and family elements (or her speechwriter does)

I think that's much the same in the church of england. Technically she's the top bod, but I don't think she ever exercises that power to actually do anything.

The royal family are in such a precarious political and economic position, and so reliant on public good will to stay on their gravy train, that they really don't have the power to make even the smallest of waves unless theyre supporting an extremely populist view (and supporting an extremely populist view isn't going to make too many waves anwyays)

But as Symmetry just pointed out she has no authority over the catholic religion


To be fair, I'm pretty sure she could take him in a knife fight.


After which, Phatscotty would claim it's a clear indication that gun proliferation is necessary in order to stop these knife-wielding thugs.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4973
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby crispybits on Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:28 am

spurgistan wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:
crispybits wrote:What negative consequences will there be from making homosexual marriage legally equal to heterosexual marriage?
Why is homosexual marriage not the same thing as heterosexual marriage?


Hey, while you're asking, why isn't poly-marriage legal? If it's okay for a man to marry a man, and a woman to marry a woman, why isn't okay for a couple of one sex to marry one of the other, as long as they all agree?


No reason. In terms of political economics, it's probably because of the relatively small number of people who want to enter into group marriages. Also, probably because we first need to convince a lot of people that it's ok for a dude to enter into a marriage with one dudes, or at least wait for those opposed to die off. But there's no ethical reason why we should expand the definition of marriage to include dudes marrying dudes but hold the line at dudes marrying dudes and ladies (in much the same way there's no real ethical reason to allow dudes to marry ladies but not allow them to marry dudes), and most people who've accepted gay marriage also accept poly, by my rough polling.


+1 to that 100%, but the point you and a lot of the objectors are missing is that this isn't an ethical argument. it's a legal one. As such it's not interested in right and wrong or godly and ungodly or moral and immoral, but simply fair and unfair.

The law change being brought in is fully democratic because it is a necessary change to comply with other laws, other laws that were democratically passed. We have gender and sexuality equality laws in the UK, and denying a large minority access to state endowed rights bestowed to married couples based solely on their gender or sexuality breaks those laws. The bishop, I suspect, never objected to those laws about everyone being free from discrimination based on gender or sexuality, he is coming into the argument far too late, with points that don't actually address the legal argument sufficiently (consultation and green papers are not legally necessary before a law is passed, especially if it's a change to an older law to bring it out of direct conflict with newer laws).

That's not to say there isn't a moral argument being put forward by both sides, simply that this moral argument is totally irrelevant. And while it might be fun to highlight the hypocrisy inherent in many of the moral anti arguments, it's a distraction from the fact the legal argument has already been won for several years now, and what we're going through in the UK isn't bringing in brand new laws or rights or whatever, but simply cleaning up the statute books to ensure that the law is fully compliant with itself.
User avatar
Major crispybits
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (9)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby gordon1975 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:00 pm

mybe the catholic church should put more effort in to stopping child abuse,in there own ranks,before they tell the rest or us whats moral in the world
God can judge my enemies, i will arrange the meeting.
User avatar
Lieutenant gordon1975
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:07 pm
Location: Scotland
Medals: 17
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2) General Achievement (1)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Funkyterrance on Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:32 pm

gordon1975 wrote:Blah blah bandwagon comment blah blah blah
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby gordon1975 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:42 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
gordon1975 wrote:Blah blah bandwagon comment blah blah blah


another blind catholic by any chance?my boys not going to your play groups
God can judge my enemies, i will arrange the meeting.
User avatar
Lieutenant gordon1975
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:07 pm
Location: Scotland
Medals: 17
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2) General Achievement (1)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby crispybits on Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:43 pm

I wouldn't be surprised Gordon.

I love the way a lot of catholics are now trying to "break" the stereotype of catholic priests as padeophiles and child abusers. Nobody is seriously saying that all catholic priests are padeophiles or child abusers, but the stereotype only exists because the catholic church has a real and documented problem with this and has repeatedly covered it up rather than address the issue. It wouldn't exist at all if there had never been widespread abuse, and using the "you're just stereotyping" kinda defence is frankly highly offensive because it denies the problem exists. Much better would be to admit to past sins and actually take action to prevent them from ever happening again, but that seems to be beyond a large portion of them.

I saw a youtube video ages ago where someone much more effectively demonstrates the above argument but I can't find it now because I don't remember the primary subject matter being discussed.
User avatar
Major crispybits
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (9)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Funkyterrance on Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:49 pm

I'm not Catholic you morons, lol. I just don't like hearing the same unoriginal crap every time I turn around. Just stop trying to fit in with your peers for two seconds and you might be able to see the issue from more than one angle.
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby jonesthecurl on Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:14 pm

The rosy red cheeks of the little children.
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class jonesthecurl
 
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:42 am
Location: disused action figure warehouse
Medals: 19
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby crispybits on Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:41 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:I'm not Catholic you morons, lol. I just don't like hearing the same unoriginal crap every time I turn around. Just stop trying to fit in with your peers for two seconds and you might be able to see the issue from more than one angle.


Yeah, telling the truth about a significant minority of religious leaders who decided to engage in paedophilia and child abuse is "just spouting unoriginal crap trying to fit in".

And defending that by using this argument does what exactly? Are you saying that the catholic church is whiter than white? Are they the organisation without sin that should cast the first stone... oh wait...
User avatar
Major crispybits
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (9)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:44 pm

crispybits wrote:
spurgistan wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:
crispybits wrote:What negative consequences will there be from making homosexual marriage legally equal to heterosexual marriage?
Why is homosexual marriage not the same thing as heterosexual marriage?


Hey, while you're asking, why isn't poly-marriage legal? If it's okay for a man to marry a man, and a woman to marry a woman, why isn't okay for a couple of one sex to marry one of the other, as long as they all agree?


No reason. In terms of political economics, it's probably because of the relatively small number of people who want to enter into group marriages. Also, probably because we first need to convince a lot of people that it's ok for a dude to enter into a marriage with one dudes, or at least wait for those opposed to die off. But there's no ethical reason why we should expand the definition of marriage to include dudes marrying dudes but hold the line at dudes marrying dudes and ladies (in much the same way there's no real ethical reason to allow dudes to marry ladies but not allow them to marry dudes), and most people who've accepted gay marriage also accept poly, by my rough polling.



Except that, at one time, Poly marriage was not illegal, therefore it was "okay," then made illegal/not okay - at least, in the U.S. Poly is also acceptable "in the Bible."

But, to be totally honest, I'm more "okay" with Poly than I am gay/lesbian marriage. Social unions for legal purposes, fine, but I would prefer to keep the terms different, the legalities the same.

Arguing that "that's not the same as equality" won't fly by me, because I'm white, and have absolutely zero problem with someone black, brown, yellow, or whatever, being "equal" - still doesn't make me black, brown, whatever, there are cosmetic differences and we should keep terms to describe that, even though it may only be a "cosmetic" difference. Similarly, while a "social union" and a "marriage" may be only cosmetically different, I believe those cosmetic differences should remain.

I also don't believe that those opposed to homosexual marriages should be forced to provide services for them... there was a wedding planner or something who was sued for not wishing to provide services to a gay or lesbian ceremony. Refusing to provide party favors for a party because the party doesn't meet personal moral standards isn't the same to me as refusing to sell a home because someone is "different."
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class stahrgazer
 
Posts: 1424
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am
Location: Figment of the Imagination...
Medals: 57
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Bot Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (8)
Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (7)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby crispybits on Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:01 pm

That would be a convincing argument if only when people introduced their husband or wife it had the same cultural meaning as someone introducing their partner. Using different names for legally identical things is not equality, and purely from a legal standpoint if we have 2 identical things then legally there is no point having 2 separate names for them. Would you, for example, suport there being 2 identical laws on the books, one for "white people" and one for "non-white people", and the non white people weren't legally called "people", but instead were called "beople". You just can't do that legally and maintain equality. Either people are people, and afforded all the rights and responsibilities accordingly, or we set up a multi-tiered system where some people are called something different from everyone else despite being legally identical, and invite all of the prejudice and discrimination that would cause.
User avatar
Major crispybits
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (9)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Ray Rider on Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:04 pm

stahrgazer wrote:Except that, at one time, Poly marriage was not illegal, therefore it was "okay," then made illegal/not okay - at least, in the U.S. Poly is also acceptable "in the Bible."

So what is not illegal is therefore "okay" and "acceptable"? Polygamy was practiced throughout history and is recorded as such in the Bible, but nowhere does it say it's acceptable or in any way condone that lifestyle; instead, it repeatedly, clearly shows the negative consequences of that lifestyle (Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon are some of the most prominent examples) and instead upholds monogamous, heterosexual marriage as the ideal.
Image
Image
Highest score: 2221
User avatar
Major Ray Rider
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:21 pm
Location: In front of my computer, duh!
Medals: 7
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Catholic Archbishop attacks gay marriage as undemocratic

Postby Funkyterrance on Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:50 pm

crispybits wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:I'm not Catholic you morons, lol. I just don't like hearing the same unoriginal crap every time I turn around. Just stop trying to fit in with your peers for two seconds and you might be able to see the issue from more than one angle.


Yeah, telling the truth about a significant minority of religious leaders who decided to engage in paedophilia and child abuse is "just spouting unoriginal crap trying to fit in".

And defending that by using this argument does what exactly? Are you saying that the catholic church is whiter than white? Are they the organisation without sin that should cast the first stone... oh wait...

I can tell you the sky is blue, it's the truth but it's also common knowledge so I don't feel the need.
Everyone has heard about the Catholic priests caught molesting kids, if anything it's been blown out of proportion at this point. Blaming the Church for it is just asinine. If you would use your own mind for a minute you would see that it was the individuals who were guilty, not the systems they were a part of. Pedophiles are just as, if not more common in other demographics so really, what is your f***ing point?
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

PreviousNext

Return to Babble-On Five

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dario2099

Login