Questions for Evolutionists

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderators: Global Moderators, Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby AAFitz on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:52 pm

tzor wrote:
Frigidus wrote:Despite having a question mark at the end of your sentence, I'm not seeing a question. Admitedly you do have a YouTube video, which I can only assume is about cats doing silly things.


Actually it's more like "Bevis and Butthead watch a video on evil-ution."


Fixed
john9blue wrote:"honestly i think martin might be better off dead"

sekretar: "i go to russia and then, without comp, i hoppe, i forgot this shit who kill my nerves long time!"

http://i.imgur.com/zU8yLiU.gif
User avatar
Lieutenant AAFitz
 
Posts: 7233
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 am
Location: On top of the World 2.1
Medals: 84
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (8) General Contribution (2)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Arama86n on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:59 pm

premio53 wrote:I have never been to this forum before. I just happened to stumble on it and noticed a couple of threads concerning God, evolution etc. Here is a list of questions for someone who considers himself an athiest or agnostic. Faith in evolution is as much a "religion" as judaism, Hinduism or any other system.

1. Where did the space for the universe come from?

2. Where did matter come from?

3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?

4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?

5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?

6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?

7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?

8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?

9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)

10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)

11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?

12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?

13. When, where, why, and how did: a) Single-celled plants become multicelled? (Where are the two- and threecelled intermediates?) b) Single-celled animals evolve? c) Fish change to amphibians? d) Amphibians change to reptiles? e) Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!) How did the intermediate forms live?

14. When, where, why, how, and from what did: a) Whales evolve? b) Sea horses evolve? c) Bats evolve? d) Eyes evolve? e) Ears evolve? f) Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolve?

15. Which evolved first (how, and how long, did it work without the others)? a) The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body’s resistance to its own digestive juice (stomach, intestines, etc.)? b) The drive to reproduce or the ability to reproduce? c) The lungs, the mucus lining to protect them, the throat, or the perfect mixture of gases to be breathed into the lungs? d) DNA or RNA to carry the DNA message to cell parts? e) The termite or the flagella in its intestines that actually digest the cellulose? f) The plants or the insects that live on and pollinate the plants? g) The bones, ligaments, tendons, blood supply, or muscles to move the bones? h) The nervous system, repair system, or hormone system? i) The immune system or the need for it? (Taken from "The Evidence Bible")


I do not have the answer to any of your questions.
I do have a counter-question though.

If god created all this, and he was there before it: where did god come from?
Thus we came down to the same problem anyway, something out of nothing.
Image
User avatar
Major Arama86n
 
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:32 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Medals: 46
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby AAFitz on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:59 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:Answer this question, evolutionist?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W763lQR0tU


That was not a question. That was a video. A bad one, but a video nonetheless.

An example of a question would be:

What is wrong with you?
Do you really consider this a valid source of any information whatsoever?
Is this what you consider scientific?
Did you post this for any other reason than to just waste peoples time?

Those are all questions, and in my opinion, much more valid ones than that sad excuse for a video.

If that got better after 3 minutes, I do apologize. I could not physically stand the silliness any longer.
john9blue wrote:"honestly i think martin might be better off dead"

sekretar: "i go to russia and then, without comp, i hoppe, i forgot this shit who kill my nerves long time!"

http://i.imgur.com/zU8yLiU.gif
User avatar
Lieutenant AAFitz
 
Posts: 7233
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 am
Location: On top of the World 2.1
Medals: 84
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (8) General Contribution (2)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby crispybits on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:08 pm

It didnt get any better after 3 minutes Fitz - trust me you didn't miss anything
User avatar
Major crispybits
 
Posts: 756
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (9)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby tzor on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:12 pm

AAFitz wrote:
tzor wrote:Actually it's more like "Bevis and Butthead watch a video on evil-ution."

Fixed

But isn't "Evil-lution" more like the history and development of the Starbucks brand name?

(Bonus points if you can guess how I managed to go from point A to point B.)
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class tzor
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Viceroy63 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:11 pm

Ok then how do you explain the hundreds of documented photos and carvings and drawing of dinosaurs, other wise known as dragons through the earth in recent history when supposedly no one has seen a dinosaur in over 65,000,000 years?

http://www.skygaze.com/content/strange/Dinosaurs.shtml

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/peru-tomb-art.htm

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/taylor-trail.htm

It was big news indeed last year when Schweitzer announced she had discovered blood vessels and structures that looked like whole cells inside that T. rex bone—the first observation of its kind. The finding amazed colleagues, who had never imagined that even a trace of still-soft dinosaur tissue could survive. After all, as any textbook will tell you, when an animal dies, soft tissues such as blood vessels, muscle and skin decay and disappear over time, while hard tissues like bone may gradually acquire minerals from the environment and become fossils.-----

Close up, the blood vessels from that T. rex and her ostrich cousins look remarkably alike. Inside the dinosaur vessels are things Schweitzer diplomatically calls “round microstructures” in the journal article, out of an abundance of scientific caution, but they are red and round, and she and other scientists suspect that they are red blood cells.----

Further discoveries in the past year have shown that the discovery of soft tissue in B. rex wasn’t just a fluke. Schweitzer and Wittmeyer have now found probable blood vessels, bone-building cells and connective tissue in another T. rex, in a theropod from Argentina and in a 300,000-year-old woolly mammoth fossil. Schweitzer’s work is “showing us we really don’t understand decay,” Holtz says. “There’s a lot of really basic stuff in nature that people just make assumptions about.”

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... z2LpskDSn0
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

[Could it simply be that the carbon dating method is also based on assumptions and providing us with false dates measuring in Centuries and not eons of time and what they are saying is millions of years old is probably only thousands if not simply hundreds of years old?]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvmWOKMpFZ0

Image
Marco Polo lived in China for 17 years, around 1271 A.D. Upon his return from Asia, he reported of families raising dragons, yoking them to royal chariots for parades and special occasions, and using dragon parts for medicinal purposes. Interestingly, the twelve signs of the Chinese zodiac are animals, eleven of which are everyday, extant creatures (rat, horse, dog, ox, rabbit, tiger, snake, ram, monkey, rooster, dog, and pig.) The twelfth is the dragon. Why would the Chinese include the “mythological” dragon with these common living animals? And we trust Marco for other history why not also dinosaurs or "Dragons"?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmC4dwCc ... re=related
Last edited by Viceroy63 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
An Unproven Hypothesis; The Rise of Ignorance.
Ultimate Proof of Creation. Click the show tab below.
show
User avatar
Major Viceroy63
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:34 pm
Location: Where No One Has Gone Before.
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (1)
Clan Achievement (1) Training Achievement (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:56 pm

1. There are translation errors in Marco Polo's works (see wiki).
2. In addition to Marco Polo and that kind of research, most people use other means of understanding history.
3. IIRC, Chinese dragons don't look like dinosaurs.
4. However, European depictions of dragons look like dinosaurs though,
5. Therefore, I recommend that you peruse European art and anecdotal stories for 'evidence' that dinosaurs existed in whatever period you hold dear.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4350
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby tzor on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:02 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:Ok then how do you explain the hundreds of documented photos and carvings and drawing of dinosaurs, other wise known as dragons through the earth in recent history when supposedly no one has seen a dinosaur in over 65,000,000 years?


How do you explain all the hundreds of drawings of unicorns?

I can, of course, but I'm not going to right now ... instead I'll just ask this question ...

Image

What dinosaur does this look like, because I don't recall seeing one that looked like that?
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class tzor
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby AAFitz on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:04 pm

tzor wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
tzor wrote:Actually it's more like "Bevis and Butthead watch a video on evil-ution."

Fixed

But isn't "Evil-lution" more like the history and development of the Starbucks brand name?

(Bonus points if you can guess how I managed to go from point A to point B.)


Family guy?
john9blue wrote:"honestly i think martin might be better off dead"

sekretar: "i go to russia and then, without comp, i hoppe, i forgot this shit who kill my nerves long time!"

http://i.imgur.com/zU8yLiU.gif
User avatar
Lieutenant AAFitz
 
Posts: 7233
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 am
Location: On top of the World 2.1
Medals: 84
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (8) General Contribution (2)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby AAFitz on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:05 pm

tzor wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:Ok then how do you explain the hundreds of documented photos and carvings and drawing of dinosaurs, other wise known as dragons through the earth in recent history when supposedly no one has seen a dinosaur in over 65,000,000 years?


How do you explain all the hundreds of drawings of unicorns?

I can, of course, but I'm not going to right now ... instead I'll just ask this question ...

Image

What dinosaur does this look like, because I don't recall seeing one that looked like that?


Flamasaurus hoax.
john9blue wrote:"honestly i think martin might be better off dead"

sekretar: "i go to russia and then, without comp, i hoppe, i forgot this shit who kill my nerves long time!"

http://i.imgur.com/zU8yLiU.gif
User avatar
Lieutenant AAFitz
 
Posts: 7233
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 am
Location: On top of the World 2.1
Medals: 84
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (8) General Contribution (2)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:42 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:Ok then how do you explain the hundreds of documented photos and carvings and drawing of dinosaurs, other wise known as dragons through the earth in recent history when supposedly no one has seen a dinosaur in over 65,000,000 years?

You make several incorrect assumptions in the above statement, without even getting into your evidence.

1. Drawings don't mean presence, its not evidence that such a creature even existed at all, never mind that it eco-existed. Ancient peoples had imaginations, religous ideas just like we do. To prove that humans and any particular dinosaur existed together would mean finding physical evidence. Even a description is not necessarily verified evidence. People can be mistaken. Ever seen the show "searching for Big foot". It is full of "first hand accounts" of people believing they have seen Big foot. in some cases they are honest people who likely saw something that they interepreted to be Big Foot, but that was just something else. In some cases these represent true intentional frauds. The show makes no real distinction. It takes research or prior knowledge to know what is what. What the show doesn't do is explain the real contrary evidence . It pretends to, by having a supposed "skeptic" pose to "ask questions", but whenever she gets to something that could truly challenge the assertions or the likelihood of big foot, then she backs off or just does not ask the pertinent question. For example, they present the film from the Trinity in Northern CA without also saying why and how that was discredited. It represents the absolute worst of science and biology.. its pure fiction that pretends to be science. Finding a story from an ancient tribe makes for a nice story, can spur someone on to investigate, but proof only comes with physical evidence. Most simply that would be bones, or remains that are indisputably in the same layer/location as human remains. Finding a cave drawing just is nothing. Absolutely nothing.



2. Finding a dinosaur that lived along side humanity would in no way, shape or form dispute evolution. Evolution involves how things came to be, not how they died. We have many ancient species that absolutely did co-exist or predate dinosaurs that still walk (or swim) the Earth today. In some cases, like the Ceolocanth, we have the exact species. In other cases, some sharks could be said to be in this category -- we have relatives of creatures that existed in the past, relatives that changed less than other relatives the ancestor species gave rise to. Sea Lamprey, Sharks and all fish have a common ancestor.. but the lamprey might be said to have changed the least, sharks a bit more and modern fish a lot more. Think of a family where one set of parents might have kids that look like clones of themselves, but cousins will look so different from each other that they almost seem not to be related. (yeah, I know that happens, too, but I mean true relatives). Carry that down just a few generations and second cousins may have nothing that looks that same about each other at all. What is so incredible about thinking that greater change could happen in many more generations ... in hundreds, thousands or even millions of generations?

3. The mythology about dragons is multitude, but few of the stories truly match any biological or scientific description of dinosaurs. Some of the myths might refer to something like a dinosaur, perhaps even a dinosaur remnant, but they could just as easily bear as much resemblance to anything real as unicorns are like rhinocerous or sea manatees like mermaids.

4. You want us to look at "hundreds" of photos and pictures.. but claim anything we present patently false. What makes your pictures valid and our millions of not just photos, but actual physical specimens lies?

5. Dinosaur descendents very much do exist.. in many forms, some of which are birds.

Viceroy63 wrote:http://www.skygaze.com/content/strange/Dinosaurs.shtml

Even if everything stated within this story were completely correct, what makes you believe it would refute evolution in any way, shape or form?





Again, why would you think this would dispute the theory of evolution in any way?
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/taylor-trail.htm

Viceroy63 wrote:It was big news indeed last year when Schweitzer announced she had discovered blood vessels and structures that looked like whole cells inside that T. rex bone—the first observation of its kind. The finding amazed colleagues, who had never imagined that even a trace of still-soft dinosaur tissue could survive. After all, as any textbook will tell you, when an animal dies, soft tissues such as blood vessels, muscle and skin decay and disappear over time, while hard tissues like bone may gradually acquire minerals from the environment and become fossils.-----

Close up, the blood vessels from that T. rex and her ostrich cousins look remarkably alike. Inside the dinosaur vessels are things Schweitzer diplomatically calls “round microstructures” in the journal article, out of an abundance of scientific caution, but they are red and round, and she and other scientists suspect that they are red blood cells.----

Further discoveries in the past year have shown that the discovery of soft tissue in B. rex wasn’t just a fluke. Schweitzer and Wittmeyer have now found probable blood vessels, bone-building cells and connective tissue in another T. rex, in a theropod from Argentina and in a 300,000-year-old woolly mammoth fossil. Schweitzer’s work is “showing us we really don’t understand decay,” Holtz says. “There’s a lot of really basic stuff in nature that people just make assumptions about.”


Again, this supports the ideas of evolution, doesn't dispute it... or are you missing big chunks of the information you feel is supposed to convince us?
Viceroy63 wrote:Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... z2LpskDSn0
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

Viceroy63 wrote:[Could it simply be that the carbon dating method is also based on assumptions and providing us with false dates measuring in Centuries and not eons of time and what they are saying is millions of years old is probably only thousands if not simply hundreds of years old?]
Carbon dating has been verified, is verified with other verified methods. There is absolutely a large error rate, but no... the idea is not incorrect. It has been proven, within the bounds of its limitations.

To put it another way, if I want to measure the distance to the next town, I use my odometer, not a ruler. If I want to cut a piece of board, I use a ruler. The odometer could not possibly give an accurate measure of a normal 2 X 4, but a ruler would lead to big compounding errors when used to measure several miles (even if I wanted to take the time to do so). carbon dating is like the odometer, though not quite as accurate. Tree rings, volcanic eruptions, floods, various other events are like the ruler. Getting accurate measures requires using each together for the proper purpose. Most young earther claims about how "incorrect" carbon dating techniques are either try to claim that its supposed to be like the ruler above instead of more like the odometer.... or that its supposed to measure more than it every will, like saying that because my car odometer cannot measure the distance to the moon, it is not an effective tool. Carbon dating is basically not used to date fossils. (I would say not used, but there might be an exception). The reason is pretty plain.. forming a fossil means replacing the living tissue with rock deposits. No carbon to date.

THAT is why this discovery is so phenomenal, becuase it shows that the fossilization process was not complete. It doesn't support your ideas.. sorry, it just doesn't.

If you still are under the impression it should, then... explain.

Viceroy63 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvmWOKMpFZ0

Image
Marco Polo lived in China for 17 years, around 1271 A.D. Upon his return from Asia, he reported of families raising dragons, yoking them to royal chariots for parades and special occasions, and using dragon parts for medicinal purposes. Interestingly, the twelve signs of the Chinese zodiac are animals, eleven of which are everyday, extant creatures (rat, horse, dog, ox, rabbit, tiger, snake, ram, monkey, rooster, dog, and pig.) The twelfth is the dragon. Why would the Chinese include the “mythological” dragon with these common living animals? And we trust Marco for other history why not also dinosaurs or "Dragons"?


Good question. Why do so many explorers report seeing unicorns? We don't really know the true answer.

But, here is the bottom line.. if it were found that a dinosaur existed in China or Africa, that would be fantastic! It would be similar to finding the Ceolocanth off the coast of the Ivory Coast.. a great find! It would not, however do anything to dispute the evidence for evolution.

I think most of us are pretty astounded or just plain baffled as to why you would even imagine it might.


In short, you are making a lot of assumptions in your statement.. and then provide no real evidence to support your claims. Proving that a few species of dinosaurs persisted into the time when humans came about doesn't mean your ideas are correct. Sorry, but you have to actually dispute the real evidence that exists. (dispute, not just believe folks lying to you by saying it doesn't exist)
Corporal 1st Class PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2546
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby nietzsche on Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:25 pm

I want to point out here that Viceroy makes use of some really interest questions and data, but the moment he chooses to use them for his agenda they are lost.

And those who respond to him, are so focused in their own agenda of laughing at creationism that sometimes make arrogant mistakes that are no different is nature that those Viceroy makes.
Image
User avatar
Major nietzsche
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:29 am
Location: Fantasy Cooperstown
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby tzor on Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:42 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:Good question. Why do so many explorers report seeing unicorns? We don't really know the true answer.


Unicorns are not found in Greek mythology, but rather in accounts of natural history, for Greek writers of natural history were convinced of the reality of the unicorn, which they located in India, a distant and fabulous realm for them. The earliest description is from Ctesias who described them as wild asses, fleet of foot, having a horn a cubit and a half in length and colored white, red and black.[1] Aristotle must be following Ctesias when he mentions two one-horned animals, the oryx (a kind of antelope) and the so-called "Indian ass".[2][3] Strabo says that in the Caucasus there were one-horned horses with stag-like heads.[4] Pliny the Elder mentions the oryx and an Indian ox (perhaps a rhinoceros) as one-horned beasts, as well as "a very fierce animal called the monoceros which has the head of the stag, the feet of the elephant, and the tail of the boar, while the rest of the body is like that of the horse; it makes a deep lowing noise, and has a single black horn, which projects from the middle of its forehead, two cubits in length."[5] In On the Nature of Animals (Περὶ Ζῴων Ἰδιότητος, De natura animalium), Aelian, quoting Ctesias, adds that India produces also a one-horned horse (iii. 41; iv. 52),[6][7] and says (xvi. 20)[8] that the monoceros (Greek: μονόκερως) was sometimes called cartazonos (Greek: καρτάζωνος), which may be a form of the Arabic karkadann, meaning "rhinoceros".


Never underestimate the power of "telephone tag" among people trying to copy vague descriptions of animals they saw in far away lands.
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class tzor
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Lootifer on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:16 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:Ok then how do you explain the hundreds of documented photos and carvings and drawing of dinosaurs, other wise known as dragons through the earth in recent history when supposedly no one has seen a dinosaur in over 65,000,000 years?

http://www.skygaze.com/content/strange/Dinosaurs.shtml

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/peru-tomb-art.htm

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/taylor-trail.htm

It was big news indeed last year when Schweitzer announced she had discovered blood vessels and structures that looked like whole cells inside that T. rex bone—the first observation of its kind. The finding amazed colleagues, who had never imagined that even a trace of still-soft dinosaur tissue could survive. After all, as any textbook will tell you, when an animal dies, soft tissues such as blood vessels, muscle and skin decay and disappear over time, while hard tissues like bone may gradually acquire minerals from the environment and become fossils.-----

Close up, the blood vessels from that T. rex and her ostrich cousins look remarkably alike. Inside the dinosaur vessels are things Schweitzer diplomatically calls “round microstructures” in the journal article, out of an abundance of scientific caution, but they are red and round, and she and other scientists suspect that they are red blood cells.----

Further discoveries in the past year have shown that the discovery of soft tissue in B. rex wasn’t just a fluke. Schweitzer and Wittmeyer have now found probable blood vessels, bone-building cells and connective tissue in another T. rex, in a theropod from Argentina and in a 300,000-year-old woolly mammoth fossil. Schweitzer’s work is “showing us we really don’t understand decay,” Holtz says. “There’s a lot of really basic stuff in nature that people just make assumptions about.”

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... z2LpskDSn0
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

[Could it simply be that the carbon dating method is also based on assumptions and providing us with false dates measuring in Centuries and not eons of time and what they are saying is millions of years old is probably only thousands if not simply hundreds of years old?]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvmWOKMpFZ0

Image
Marco Polo lived in China for 17 years, around 1271 A.D. Upon his return from Asia, he reported of families raising dragons, yoking them to royal chariots for parades and special occasions, and using dragon parts for medicinal purposes. Interestingly, the twelve signs of the Chinese zodiac are animals, eleven of which are everyday, extant creatures (rat, horse, dog, ox, rabbit, tiger, snake, ram, monkey, rooster, dog, and pig.) The twelfth is the dragon. Why would the Chinese include the “mythological” dragon with these common living animals? And we trust Marco for other history why not also dinosaurs or "Dragons"?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmC4dwCc ... re=related

All very good points and I accept the data. However the data is no more compelling than any data in support of evolution. In fact one or two alledged sightings is, unfortunately, a lot less reputable than cause and effect models (which evolution is one of) that is consistent with or supported by short term mutations, fossil records/carbon dating (admitedly incomplete, but the portions that are complete are consistent with evolutionary theory), behavioural science and other areas of ongoing research.

In other words you might be right. God may very well smite me at the gates of heaven and send me packing all the way to hell. I accept that. I do however have little fear that this will be the case as I have weighed up the evidence in support and against and decided to take my chances with evolution. So has the rest of humanity; there is no great lie, there is no conspiracy; we just simply think one is more likely than the other and therefore teach it in our schools as a theory.
I go to the gym to justify my mockery of fat people.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Lootifer
 
Posts: 783
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:30 pm
Location: Competing
Medals: 15
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby comic boy on Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:26 am

I have seen huge Monitor Lizards in Thailand , 10-12 feet long , my friend has seen even bigger ones on the island of Komodo , the locals even call them dragons. I would hazard a guess that travellers such as Marco Polo encountered the same during their travels in Asia , find another straw to clutch at .
Im a TOFU miSfit
User avatar
Brigadier comic boy
 
Posts: 1738
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:54 pm
Location: London
Medals: 28
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2)
Terminator Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Viceroy63 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:13 am

Lootifer; When I talk about the theory of evolution I am not talking about evolutionary theory. What I am talking about is that man evolved from a common ancestor. Not that any of the other evolutionary theories hold any water either but I just want to be exact in my description of this topic. To jumble it all up under the guise of evolutionary theory is not addressing the same topic that I am bringing up as there are many kinds of evolutionary theories but only one theory of evolution.

I also do not debate the fact of short term mutations do in fact occur in nature, but I don't see short term mutations as a mechanism for long term evolution. I also do not see short or any kind of mutation as a short term step to something else but simply as an adaptation for the survival of the organism, an "Add On," and that is all. In other words the organism or species continues being what it is, but the adaptations are permanent fixtures in diversifying that particular branch of the organism onto better survival for it's environment and not a step to the formation of an entirely new creature.

I would also like to be clear about the choice and the use of the word "Add On!" If I have a car for example, I can add on to it Tinted windows but that does not turn my car into a plane or help to do so. I can not take an "Add On" designed for a Plane and add it to my Car and call it the evolution of my car into a plane. "Add On's," are design specifically for for the creature or kind or species but are not intermediary steps as I see it. That being said about my use of the word "Add On's," I will continue now.

The point still stands, If the theory of evolution postulates that the dinosaurs have been extinct for over 65 million years then the theory is in error and in need of evolving itself, if there are dinosaurs still alive today. You can not say that we have a common ancestor that arose from the dinosaurs, be unable to find any missing links but wait, here are some dinosaur blood from just a few thousand years ago if not hundreds but not even an iota of anything of an intermediary species.

All the mounting evidence against the theory of evolution or Darwinian evolution is nothing new and has been gathering ever since the theory was first postulated. But the theory itself has not been adapted or altered in any way only advanced and that is not science or knowledge but deception. Because all of the people believe in a certain thing does not give that thing credit, it only shows the depth of the deception. To not examine or take into account all of the evidence on any topic is not logic or reason but in my opinion, "shameful" It is only when we arrive at a conclusion that satisfy all of the known evidence that we can finally say that we have a theory worth postulating.

Oh and the sightings are in the thousands. Not just one or two. There are literally thousands of photos of "Champ" the USA Dinosaur and of "Nessy" The Loche (Lake) Ness Monster in Great Britain. There is also in the jungles of Congo, A jungle larger than the average sized state of the USA, such large creatures reported that resembles the dinosaurs, that are said to block the path of rivers when they lay down to cool off. As well as Flying Reptiles larger than any bird that flies in the sky that is not a mechanical airplane!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jwh5gCEPr8

As for Marco Polo's observations...

comic boy wrote:I have seen huge Monitor Lizards in Thailand , 10-12 feet long , my friend has seen even bigger ones on the island of Komodo , the locals even call them dragons. I would hazard a guess that travellers such as Marco Polo encountered the same during their travels in Asia , find another straw to clutch at .


A dinosaurs anatomy is what makes up the dinosaur and not it's size. Any reptile that lives long enough would eventually grow to the size of a house. A small turtle that lives to be about a hundred years old will also grow to weigh 300 lbs. or more, but the size does not make it a dinosaurs. Yet the Turtles anatomy does make it a dinosaur. In fact many dinosaurs were no larger than Chickens but the fact that they continue to live and to grow in a pre-antediluvian environment is what made them such large creatures. By definition the Monitor Lizard is a dinosaur no matter what you call them. The fact is that the word Dinosaur is a new word in history not even 200 hundred years old. And before then, dinosaurs were referred to as dragons. Regardless of their size.
Last edited by Viceroy63 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:09 am, edited 5 times in total.
Image
An Unproven Hypothesis; The Rise of Ignorance.
Ultimate Proof of Creation. Click the show tab below.
show
User avatar
Major Viceroy63
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:34 pm
Location: Where No One Has Gone Before.
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (1)
Clan Achievement (1) Training Achievement (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby GeneralRisk on Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:29 am

Inca burial stone PeruImage
Major GeneralRisk
 
Posts: 762
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:58 pm
Location: Neu-Schwabenland
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Polymorphic Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (11) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Lootifer on Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:03 pm

I think I shall resort back to my ad hominem argument that people who dont grasp plain english writing skills are always wrong.
I go to the gym to justify my mockery of fat people.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Lootifer
 
Posts: 783
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:30 pm
Location: Competing
Medals: 15
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Maugena on Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:31 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:Oh please! Scientists don't "accept" evolution either, they just accept that the theory might be true and there is no other competing theory with anything like the same kind of evidence.

The Roman Catholic Church is not in the position of mandating science. They tell parishioners if something is opposed by the Bible or not. In this case, not... therefore your claim that the evolution is inherently opposed to Christianity is just plain false.

There is no error in assuming evolution to be truth.
We did not all of the sudden *POOF* into existence.
So nay-sayers claim that there isn't enough evidence for it to be true, big deal.
Stupid people can stay stupid.
The evidence is ALL AROUND US.
The very fact that there are different types of peoples is so damning it's outrageous. NOT TO MENTION YOU CAN SEE A GRADUAL PROGRESSION IN THE PHYSICAL APPEARANCE OF MAN AS THEY MIGRATED AWAY FROM AFRICA.
Anyone that does not or cannot follow the logic process, voluntarily or not, throws themselves in the lot of "we just poofed into existence."
The Bible directly states that "God" created man.
Does this allow room for evolution?
It does if you retro-fit it, sure.
What do you mean by that, Maugena?
Good question, fine fellow.
It means that evolution wasn't even a concept or even a thought by the time the Bible was created, therefore, it meant that we poofed into existence and that we are divine in that we were created by "God" IN HIS IMAGE.

PLAYER57832 wrote:The official and unofficial position is that evolution is not contradicted by the Bible.

Retro-fitting makes bullshit logically "sound."
PLAYER57832 wrote:The rest is not specified within the Bible, is based on ideas, and for various reasons that have more to do with changing science than theology, the position is unofficial.

What's based on ideas? The Bible?

PLAYER57832 wrote:ALSO.. there are some variations on that, another reason for it being unofficial. Nowhere does it say that evolution is diametrically opposed to the Bible, that the two are inconsistant as you claimed.
You are more than nit-picking my words, pretending that things are being said that have not and not standing by yours.

They are.
You either take the Bible literally or you discard it as gibberish.
There is no in between.
You can't be wishy washy with things here and there, pick and choose, etc.
It invalidates the entire thing if you discard any of it.
Do you think the Bible and Christianity of today will hold any relevance to the Bible and Christianity a few million years in the future?
Probably a bit, but the point is that it's constantly changing, being re-written to fit society today, fit to further someone's agenda, etc. and that, as a result, makes it illegitimate because it is no longer THE BIBLE.
If you can't swallow this fact then you're beyond help or impossibly stubborn, maybe both.

What haven't I stood by?

PLAYER57832 wrote:Yeah, and evolution is still a theory, not proven... so again, your words are garbage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_lo ... experiment
Do we need to imprint this upon your brain so that you may finally get it?

PLAYER57832 wrote:LOL

no dice. You have shown your idiocy yourself quite nicely. continue if you will, but you make it clear you have no pretense of truth.

OH, by the way, your claim was that Christianity, the Bible so inherently opposes Evolution that they have an inherent vested interest in declaiming it. I simply told you the truth, that they are not opposed to Evolution at all.

So go on with your blathering.

They have two options.
Renounce their faith and break free from the chains of institutionalized falsehoods or take the Bible literally.
Scatter me into the wind, drifting for eternity, forever undone.
Blissfully through with reality's unacceptable nature and apparent being.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKjzDU7V7es
User avatar
New Recruit Maugena
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:07 pm

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Viceroy63 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:01 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:Oh please! Scientists don't "accept" evolution either, they just accept that the theory might be true and there is no other competing theory with anything like the same kind of evidence.


Oh, but there is another "Competing Theory" in existence which does fit and explain all of the observable facts of science, nature and history without twisting or falsifying any of the geological, historical or archeological records like the theory of evolution does. It's Called, "Creation!" And it makes more sense than evolution that does not have a "bone" to stand on.

BTW: Player, I am agreeing with ya on this point, Ok! Just filling in the gaps you left bare.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD6cM08CGUU
Image
An Unproven Hypothesis; The Rise of Ignorance.
Ultimate Proof of Creation. Click the show tab below.
show
User avatar
Major Viceroy63
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:34 pm
Location: Where No One Has Gone Before.
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (1)
Clan Achievement (1) Training Achievement (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Neoteny on Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:33 pm

Falsify geological, historical, or archaeological records... like Peruvian art?
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
User avatar
Lieutenant Neoteny
 
Posts: 2494
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:24 pm
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Medals: 29
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (2)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby tzor on Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:00 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:Lootifer; When I talk about the theory of evolution I am not talking about evolutionary theory. What I am talking about is that man evolved from a common ancestor. Not that any of the other evolutionary theories hold any water either but I just want to be exact in my description of this topic. To jumble it all up under the guise of evolutionary theory is not addressing the same topic that I am bringing up as there are many kinds of evolutionary theories but only one theory of evolution.


Now you have me really confused. I thought the "common ancestor" of man came from some book in Genesis. :twisted:

Viceroy63 wrote:The point still stands, If the theory of evolution postulates that the dinosaurs have been extinct for over 65 million years then the theory is in error and in need of evolving itself, if there are dinosaurs still alive today. You can not say that we have a common ancestor that arose from the dinosaurs, be unable to find any missing links but wait, here are some dinosaur blood from just a few thousand years ago if not hundreds but not even an iota of anything of an intermediary species.


No scientist that I know says that. Never the less, the horseshoe crab my dear Viceroy, he still exists today pretty much as he has always had. Can you know for sure if some other species might have come from one of this great (times a million or more) ancestors? Your lack of logic fascinates me.

I admit you do make great straw men, but that is all they are.
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class tzor
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby AAFitz on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:09 pm

I honestly think we should have an evolution-thon and buy him those expensive books BBS had suggested.

I am actually feeling really bad for this guy now.
john9blue wrote:"honestly i think martin might be better off dead"

sekretar: "i go to russia and then, without comp, i hoppe, i forgot this shit who kill my nerves long time!"

http://i.imgur.com/zU8yLiU.gif
User avatar
Lieutenant AAFitz
 
Posts: 7233
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 am
Location: On top of the World 2.1
Medals: 84
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (8) General Contribution (2)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby crispybits on Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:32 am

He'd find a typo on page 236 and declare everything within the books invalid on that basis.
User avatar
Major crispybits
 
Posts: 756
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (9)

Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby nietzsche on Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:44 am

I'm familiar with the theory of evolution, I've actually read a couple of good books on it but I would like as a manner of experiment to start a thread in order for those who really know about it, to explain the cornerstones of the theory, I mean the fossils and timelines and all.

I was about to start it but I declined in the idea because I'm not going to start another thread like these. I've actually would like a discussion on specific fossils and why do they point out directly to the veracity on the evolution model.

Do you think such a thread has a future or it will end up like all the religion vs evolution threads?
Image
User avatar
Major nietzsche
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:29 am
Location: Fantasy Cooperstown
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

PreviousNext

Return to Babble-On Five

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron
Login