Questions for Evolutionists

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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:12 am

Maugena wrote:Sorry about the curse words directed at you Player. But please. You can't call BS when there is none.



Sure, she can. She does it all the time, and then fortifies her position with the empty sandbags of irrelevant arguments and long, winding trenches of tangents.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby AAFitz on Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:54 pm

Maugena wrote:"God" is dis-proven because the Bible was "made" by "God", therefore it must be infallible.


Says who?

This is a complete circular reference, and as such the definition of illogical.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby tzor on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:33 pm

Maugena wrote:Evolution and creationism (what the Bible LITERALLY says) are in direct conflict. It is one or the other.


It is important to understand that the Catholic Church does not teach that the Bible is "Literally" true. The Bible is a collection of books that contain truth, but it is not word for word literally true.

This is especially true with the two creation stories of the Book of Genesis and especially true with the first chapter.

This is the commentary in the Roman Catholic New American Bible, Revised Edition on the first creation story in Genesis

* [1:1–2:3] This section, from the Priestly source, functions as an introduction, as ancient stories of the origin of the world (cosmogonies) often did. It introduces the primordial story (2:4–11:26), the stories of the ancestors (11:27–50:26), and indeed the whole Pentateuch. The chapter highlights the goodness of creation and the divine desire that human beings share in that goodness. God brings an orderly universe out of primordial chaos merely by uttering a word. In the literary structure of six days, the creation events in the first three days are related to those in the second three.
1. light (day)/darkness (night) = 4. sun/moon
2. arrangement of water = 5. fish + birds from waters
3. a) dry land = 6. a) animals
b) vegetation b) human beings: male/female
The seventh day, on which God rests, the climax of the account, falls outside the six-day structure.
Until modern times the first line was always translated, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” Several comparable ancient cosmogonies, discovered in recent times, have a “when…then” construction, confirming the translation “when…then” here as well. “When” introduces the pre-creation state and “then” introduces the creative act affecting that state. The traditional translation, “In the beginning,” does not reflect the Hebrew syntax of the clause.


So what do we see here? Well we see a hierarchical order in the story, unlike the sequential order a literalist would insist on. This is why we have dry land before the sun and the moon. Forget "evolution" only the extreme literalist is going to insist that the dry land on the earth was formed before the sun. More over the entire story is linked with the notion that there is a metal dome between the waters below and above and that is where the stars, sun and moon are fixed.

As the old saying goes, the Bible tells us how to get to heaven, not how the heavens go.

Maugena wrote:Furthermore, once the Bible is proven wrong, "God" is dis-proven because the Bible was "made" by "God", therefore it must be infallible.


First of all the only "words" made by God are somewhere in a lost ark probably in Ethiopia. (And there are probably only ten words at most.) The Bible is "inspired" by God and contains the truth; but that truth is dependent on the writing styles of the authors in question. The Bible was never meant to be a physics book, or a chemistry book, or a biology book. It was meant to be a book on a covenant between God and His people.

Maugena wrote:EVOLUTION DEMOLISHES THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT.


The foundation of the Torah is the law. Evolution does not demolish any foundation of the Torah.

Maugena wrote:How the f*ck is this not crystal clear, people?


It's clear you don't have a clue what mainstream Christianity and the Catholic Church actually teaches and believes.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Maugena on Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:54 pm

tzor wrote:It's clear you don't have a clue what mainstream Christianity and the Catholic Church actually teaches and believes.

I'll concede to you on this one.
They can apparently believe in whatever the f*ck they want to believe whether or not they're being hypocritical or having contradicting views/interpretations.
It really puts into question the validity of the thing, entirely.
Making shit up as they go, really. Reformat your puzzle piece to fit in with an evolving society.
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You're either in or out. There is no gray area. All gray area is as much as a falsehood as being out.

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AAFitz wrote:
Maugena wrote:"God" is dis-proven because the Bible was "made" by "God", therefore it must be infallible.


Says who?

This is a complete circular reference, and as such the definition of illogical.

Sorry... you're right. I was making a logic leap there that wasn't backed up by anything. I was just seething with a rage so profound that mine eyes couldn't see the vision.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby _sabotage_ on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:01 pm

Maugena wrote:You're either in or out.


Exactly, just like you can't be on a game site and not play games.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Maugena on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:04 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:
Maugena wrote:You're either in or out.


Exactly, just like you can't be on a game site and not play games.

Hue. Touché.
Actually...
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby tzor on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:23 pm

Maugena wrote:Adam and Eve is tru-errrr... A STORY!


Let's just stick with Adam and Eve because this is an evolution thread. Adam, Eve, and Evolution

Pope Pius XII warned us, "What is the literal sense of a passage is not always as obvious in the speeches and writings of the ancient authors of the East, as it is in the works of our own time. For what they wished to express is not to be determined by the rules of grammar and philology alone, nor solely by the context; the interpreter must, as it were, go back wholly in spirit to those remote centuries of the East and with the aid of history, archaeology, ethnology, and other sciences, accurately determine what modes of writing, so to speak, the authors of that ancient period would be likely to use, and in fact did use. For the ancient peoples of the East, in order to express their ideas, did not always employ those forms or kinds of speech which we use today; but rather those used by the men of their times and countries. What those exactly were the commentator cannot determine as it were in advance, but only after a careful examination of the ancient literature of the East" (Divino Afflante Spiritu 35–36).


The Catechism explains that "Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine ‘work,’ concluded by the ‘rest’ of the seventh day" (CCC 337), but "nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history is rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun" (CCC 338).


In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: "When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own" (Humani Generis 37).


As the Catechism puts it, "Methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things the of the faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are" (CCC 159). The Catholic Church has no fear of science or scientific discovery.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:59 am

Maugena wrote:
tzor wrote:
Maugena wrote:With evolution being proven, we lose our "god-given divinity".

We lose our ... what?

How you and player do not understand this what-so-ever is beyond me.

I don't understand why I'm being argued against when I'm not incorrect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_C ... _evolution
Catholic Church accepted my ass.


From the wikki article linked above... the first part of that article, in fact
In the 1950 encyclical Humani generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces.[1] Today[update], the Church's unofficial position is an example of theistic evolution, also known as evolutionary creation,[2] stating that faith and scientific findings regarding human evolution are not in conflict


So, it seems that the Popes very much have and do disagree with your belief. Not that I follow the Pope, but you made reference to his church.
Maugena wrote:Evolution and creationism (what the Bible LITERALLY says) are in direct conflict. It is one or the other.

Explain how.
Maugena wrote:Furthermore, once the Bible is proven wrong, "God" is dis-proven because the Bible was "made" by "God", therefore it must be infallible. Since it isn't because of Evolution (and a long list of other things), CHRISTIANS have everything to lose because EVOLUTION DEMOLISHES THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT.
Therefore, having proven Evolution, the Bible is revealed to be false - the very thing Christianity is entirely founded on.
See, the thing about logic is that when you start with a false assumption, then everything else that follows is pure garbage.

You wish to think that the Bible refutes evolution. You are welcome to that belief, but don't confuse it with what Christians (or Jews or Muslims, for that matter) really believe.

Maugena wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Maugena wrote: With evolution being proven, we lose our "god-given divinity".
We think ourselves above animals, while, in fact, we ARE animinimals.
There's a lot more that can be speculated... but it's entirely obvious that the idea that we are animals doesn't sit well with bible-thumpers and that's why they're spreading their bullshit. Mostly trying to get young minds, mind you. You're most impressionable when you're a child, when you don't know any better than to believe there's a giant man in the sky.

Oh, BULL. This is no more true than the idea that Earth revolving around the sun is anti-Christian because humans are the center of the universe. And, the only ones trying to claim this is about Christianity versus science are the small (but sadly growing) group of evangelicals and some other splinter groups, like the Amish and some Mennonites (but it might interest you that not even all Mennonites subscribe to the young Earth ideas).

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... rsion=ESV;
#27 & #28
Yes, f*ck you and f*ck your bullshit, Player. Please argue something valid, plox.

How the f*ck is this not crystal clear, people?


Funny how you claim we are idiots but all you can do is throw out vulgarities.

You can believe whatever you want, but when you mistake your personal beliefs for that of others... you show yourself to be an idiot, not a thinker.
Maugena wrote:Sorry about the curse words directed at you Player. But please. You can't call BS when there is none.
Apology accepted, but you really should try reading a bit more. The Roman Catholic Church has never disputed Evolution and has, since about 1950 officially stated that it is not in conflict with Christianity. Other Christian denominations have gone even further in support of evolution.

The Bible says "God did it" it does not say exactly how God did it. Evolution is the most likely option for how.

Calling that BS puts you in the same category as the OP, as someone who believes they konw the facts without bothering to truly challenge their information and see if they are correct. Sorry, but it does
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:09 am

Maugena wrote:
tzor wrote:It's clear you don't have a clue what mainstream Christianity and the Catholic Church actually teaches and believes.

I'll concede to you on this one.
They can apparently believe in whatever the f*ck they want to believe whether or not they're being hypocritical or having contradicting views/interpretations.


Uh, to consider Genesis disputing evolution requires demanding that the Biblical reference to days refers to rotations of the Earth, but those words, in English and in the ancient languages in the Bible can be used in various ways. If I say "in my day and age" or "in the days of old".. etc, etc, its not a specific time reference, but a general one.

I am not going to bother correcting your understanding further, but you made the statement above as if you thought that the Roman Catholic Church and most other Christian Churches disputed evolution when they do not. Whether you agree with the church or not is another issue entirely. Tzor and I are simply saying that when you start arguing... argue a position people actually hold. Some of the newer evanglical churches might (do) argue such as you have, but not the Roman Catholic Church and not the mainline Protestant churches
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Viceroy63 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:44 am

"And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."
-Genesis 1:5

While I would agree with the fact that the Bible uses the word "Day" in reference to an indefinite period of time as "in the day when they were created," (the TIME when they were created... Genesis 2:4) the above verse and those of the first six days of creation can not and are not used in any other way except to describe a 24hour period of day and night. There is simply no other way to use the phrase "Evening and Morning."

I would also add that just because the seventh day had no "Evening and Morning" does not take away from the text. The Creation of the Sabbath "Day" was a separate creation. And while it too was also a day as well, one of the seven days of the week, the fact that no "Evening and Mornings" are mention for that day only notes that this rest has higher meanings and functions than simply just a day.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:05 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:"And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."
-Genesis 1:5

While I would agree with the fact that the Bible uses the word "Day" in reference to an indefinite period of time as "in the day when they were created," (the TIME when they were created... Genesis 2:4) the above verse and those of the first six days of creation can not and are not used in any other way except to describe a 24hour period of day and night. There is simply no other way to use the phrase "Evening and Morning."


I see, and your basis for this interpretation is what, exactly? Because, again, generations of Jewish and Christian scholars have seriously disagreed with your ideas.
In particular, the concepts of evening and morning have various meanings in Hebrew, just like in English. (The "dawn of an age", "the morning of our youth", etc.)

You are not entitled to decide that your own ideas are the words of the Bible. The Bible says what it says, not what you claim it says.

Viceroy63 wrote:I would also add that just because the seventh day had no "Evening and Morning" does not take away from the text. The Creation of the Sabbath "Day" was a separate creation. And while it too was also a day as well, one of the seven days of the week, the fact that no "Evening and Mornings" are mention for that day only notes that this rest has higher meanings and functions than simply just a day.

This, again, is something someone has told you to add in. It is not what the Bible itself says.

The Bible is simple. It is easy to understand. There are no perabulations needed to justify its words, the words are there for all to see. The words say, plain and simply, that God created the Earth in 6 segments of HIS time. They also say that the order in which animals were created matches that of evolutionary theories.

To make your claims valid requires adding in a lot of information that is not just not specified, its also contradicted by evidence.

If you try to claim that Noah's flood killed the dinosaurs, then you directly contradict the Bible anyway. The Bible says that ALL animals were saved, not all but these...
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby tzor on Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:28 pm

It is important to understand that the Genesis creation story uses "evening and morning" in order to map the elements of creation into the notion of the seven day week and the seventh day rest (Sabbath). It is important to note that the notion of the seven day week didn't come from Moses out of thin air.

Counting from the new moon, the Babylonians celebrated the 7th, 14th, 21st, and 28th as "holy-days", also called "evil days" (meaning "unsuitable" for prohibited activities). On these days officials were prohibited from various activities and common men were forbidden to "make a wish", and at least the 28th was known as a "rest-day". On each of them, offerings were made to a different god and goddess. Tablets from the 6th-century BC reigns of Cyrus the Great and Cambyses indicate these dates were sometimes approximate.


The story does more than merely promote the notion of a seven day week, dividing the "work days" into two groups of three, with the second set giving the proper "rulers" to the first set.

Thus the story is more complex than an episode of "this old house" and a literal liner reading of the story does it a great injustice.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:25 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Maugena wrote:....at you Player. But please. You can't call BS when there is none.



Sure, she can. She does it all the time, and then fortifies her position with the empty sandbags of irrelevant arguments and long, winding trenches of tangents.

And yet, you counter with mere insults, when if you actually had validity, you would put forward your lauded facts.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:53 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Maugena wrote:....at you Player. But please. You can't call BS when there is none.



Sure, she can. She does it all the time, and then fortifies her position with the empty sandbags of irrelevant arguments and long, winding trenches of tangents.

And yet, you counter with mere insults, when if you actually had validity, you would put forward your lauded facts.


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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:09 am

Watch out from above!

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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:51 pm

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AndyDufresne wrote:Watch out from above!

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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Maugena on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:02 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:From the wikki article linked above... the first part of that article, in fact
In the 1950 encyclical Humani generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces.[1] Today[update], the Church's unofficial position is an example of theistic evolution, also known as evolutionary creation,[2] stating that faith and scientific findings regarding human evolution are not in conflict

Let me break it down for you.
In the 1950 encyclical Humani generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces.

This states that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution.
Acceptance of evolution?
No.
Today, the Church's unofficial position is an example of theistic evolution, also known as evolutionary creation,[2] stating that faith and scientific findings regarding human evolution are not in conflict.

What does unofficial mean, Player?
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unofficial
Acceptance of Evolution?
No.

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Maugena wrote:Furthermore, once the Bible is proven wrong, "God" is dis-proven because the Bible was "made" by "God", therefore it must be infallible. Since it isn't because of Evolution (and a long list of other things), CHRISTIANS have everything to lose because EVOLUTION DEMOLISHES THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT.
Therefore, having proven Evolution, the Bible is revealed to be false - the very thing Christianity is entirely founded on.
See, the thing about logic is that when you start with a false assumption, then everything else that follows is pure garbage.

You wish to think that the Bible refutes evolution. You are welcome to that belief, but don't confuse it with what Christians (or Jews or Muslims, for that matter) really believe.

The Bible DOES refute Evolution.
Are you really saying to me that Evolution was accepted since the inception of Christianity? Since Judaism?
What was the belief before the theory of evolution?
Take a wild fucking guess.

So we're at this...
PLAYER57832 wrote:The Roman Catholic Church has never disputed Evolution and has, since about 1950 officially stated that it is not in conflict with Christianity. Other Christian denominations have gone even further in support of evolution.

From this...
THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND MOST PROTESTANT DENOMINATIONS* HAVE LONG SINCE ACCEPTED EVOLUTION!

What's your position again?

You don't have to be foolishly prideful. You can admit when you goofed. I'll allow for it.

*Did you know that you originally wrote that word as demoninations? I almost wonder if there's something more to this...

And no, I haven't been dodging any of your responses, Player or Tzor, I've merely become bored with this forum and haven't visited in a while. It's a bit stale for the most part, in my honest opinion.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:03 am

Maugena wrote:And no, I haven't been dodging any of your responses, Player or Tzor, I've merely become bored with this forum and haven't visited in a while. It's a bit stale for the most part, in my honest opinion.

If anything, it's more the topic than the forum. Thanks for contributing to the yawning! ;)


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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Maugena on Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:52 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
Maugena wrote:And no, I haven't been dodging any of your responses, Player or Tzor, I've merely become bored with this forum and haven't visited in a while. It's a bit stale for the most part, in my honest opinion.

If anything, it's more the topic than the forum. Thanks for contributing to the yawning! ;)


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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:14 am

Maugena wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:From the wikki article linked above... the first part of that article, in fact
In the 1950 encyclical Humani generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces.[1] Today[update], the Church's unofficial position is an example of theistic evolution, also known as evolutionary creation,[2] stating that faith and scientific findings regarding human evolution are not in conflict

Let me break it down for you.
In the 1950 encyclical Humani generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces.

This states that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution.
Acceptance of evolution?
No.

Oh please! Scientists don't "accept" evolution either, they just accept that the theory might be true and there is no other competing theory with anything like the same kind of evidence.

The Roman Catholic Church is not in the position of mandating science. They tell parishoners if something is opposed by the Bible or not. In this case, not... therefore your claim that the evolution is inherently opposed to Christianity is just plain false.
Today, the Church's unofficial position is an example of theistic evolution, also known as evolutionary creation,[2] stating that faith and scientific findings regarding human evolution are not in conflict.

What does unofficial mean, Player?[/quote]

The official and unofficial position is that evolution is not contradicted by the Bible. The rest is not specified within the Bible, is based on ideas, and for various reasons that have more to do with changing science than theology, the position is unofficial.

ALSO.. there are some variations on that, another reason for it being unofficial. Nowhere does it say that evolution is diametrically opposed to the Bible, that the two are inconsistant as you claimed.
You are more than nit-picking my words, pretending that things are being said that have not and not standing by yours.
Maugena wrote: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unofficial
Acceptance of Evolution?
No.
Yes.

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Maugena wrote:Furthermore, once the Bible is proven wrong, "God" is dis-proven because the Bible was "made" by "God", therefore it must be infallible. Since it isn't because of Evolution (and a long list of other things), CHRISTIANS have everything to lose because EVOLUTION DEMOLISHES THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT.

No, you wish to believe that, but it is not, in fact true.. as I HAVE shown. You can keep arguing your idiocy, but you make it clear you are going to stick with what you think, not the facts. You are worse than the young earthers.. you see the words and pretend you know better than millions of Christians.
Maugena wrote:Therefore, having proven Evolution, the Bible is revealed to be false - the very thing Christianity is entirely founded on.
See, the thing about logic is that when you start with a false assumption, then everything else that follows is pure garbage.
Yeah, and evolution is still a theory, not proven... so again, your words are garbage.

Y
Maugena wrote:ou wish to think that the Bible refutes evolution. You are welcome to that belief, but don't confuse it with what Christians (or Jews or Muslims, for that matter) really believe.

The Bible DOES refute Evolution.
Are you really saying to me that Evolution was accepted since the inception of Christianity? Since Judaism?[/quote]

Maugena wrote:What was the belief before the theory of evolution?
Take a wild fucking guess.

Don't need to guess.. or curse. I know the answer. A variety of ideas and beliefs.
Within Judaism and Christianity there has ALWAYS been debate over the timeline in the Bible. Some have maintained a strict literalism, but others have said that, for example, that the day in the Bible is God's day, etc. In fact, that idea was far more prevalent than the absolute literalist ideas, despite what some evangelical groups like to claim now.

Maugena wrote: So we're at this...
PLAYER57832 wrote:The Roman Catholic Church has never disputed Evolution and has, since about 1950 officially stated that it is not in conflict with Christianity. Other Christian denominations have gone even further in support of evolution.

From this...
THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND MOST PROTESTANT DENOMINATIONS* HAVE LONG SINCE ACCEPTED EVOLUTION!

What's your position again?

You don't have to be foolishly prideful. You can admit when you goofed. I'll allow for it.
LOL

no dice. You have shown your idiocy yourself quite nicely. continue if you will, but you make it clear you have no pretense of truth.

OH, by the way, your claim was that Christianity, the Bible so inherently opposes Evolution that they have an inherent vested interest in declaiming it. I simply told you the truth, that they are not opposed to Evolution at all.

So go on with your blathering.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Viceroy63 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:29 pm

Image
http://www.generalforum.com/science/did ... 94028.html

The above drawing is found in Utah, USA. It was made by American Indians 500 years ago. At the time the Indian people were nomadic tribesmen. That means that they moved around a lot. They were nomads by choice because the hunting of the American Buffalo was their main concern. Well, that and the smoking of the peace pipe. Who can blame them.

The Buffalo never stayed put in just one place. So where ever the Buffalo roamed the Indians followed. They had no cities or high technology and certainly did not have spare scientist digging for bones and collecting the bones where ever they went. Spending the night dancing and singing songs around the camp fire to their gods was the height of their scientific endeavors.

So my question is...

If no one has seen a dinosaur in over 60,000,000 million years, Then just what the hell were they drawing in the cave walls?

There is an image of a man which is certainly definable but what creature even remotely resembles that of a large Horse with a tail the size of a tree and an obvious bump on it's head which we now know that some dinosaurs had atop their heads?

Image
Image
An Unproven Hypothesis; The Rise of Ignorance.
Ultimate Proof of Creation. Click the show tab below.
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby crispybits on Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:08 am

Image
The Kachina Bridge "dinosaur," as drawn by a young earth creationist (left) and as depicted in a line drawing of the petroglyph (right). The dark shading on the line drawing represents carving done by humans, while the light shading represents mud stains that add to the dinosaur illusion. From Senter and Cole, 2011.


About 65.5 million years ago, the last of the non-avian dinosaurs were wiped out in the fallout from one of the earth’s most catastrophic extinction events. They left only bones and traces in the rock behind. Yet there are people who claim that humans actually lived alongside dinosaurs. Young earth creationists have a habit of twisting natural history to fit within the narrow confines of their interpretation of Genesis, and they insist that humans once co-existed with sauropods, tyrannosaurs, ceratopsians and other dinosaurs within the last 6,000 years or so.

To support their fantastical claims, some creationists cite what they believe to be various sculptures, carvings and other artistic representations of dinosaurs made by ancient cultures around the world. Most of these have been discredited as forgeries and misinterpreted objects, but creationists continue to use them as evidence for their peculiar view of earth history. Among the most oft-cited is a petroglyph of what appears to be an Apatosaurus-like sauropod on Kachina Bridge in Utah’s Natural Bridges National Monument. According to the fundamentalist-apologist group Answers in Genesis, “The petroglyph of a sauropod dinosaur clearly has important implications—indicating that dinosaurs were indeed known to men after the Flood until they eventually died out and became (apparently) extinct.” The assumption is that the petroglyph was intentionally carved by humans to represent a single animal that people had actually seen walking around the landscape in the recent past. A paper just published by paleontologists Phil Senter and Sally Cole demolishes this argument.

Have you ever watched the clouds go by and thought you saw one in the shape of an animal, or seen the “man in the moon”? These are examples of pareidolia—seeing what we believe to be a significant shape or pattern when it isn’t really there. This phenomenon also explains the “dinosaur” on Kachina Bridge. Upon close inspection by Senter and Cole, the “sauropod dinosaur” turned out to be made up of distinct carvings and mud stains. It is definitely not a depiction of a single animal, and, viewed in detail, it looks nothing like a dinosaur. The separate carvings and mud stains only look like a dinosaur to those wishing to find one there.

While certainly the most prominent, the supposed sauropod was not the only dinosaur carving creationists thought they saw on the bridge. Three other dinosaur depictions have been said to exist, but Senter and Cole easily debunked these, as well. One of the “dinosaurs” was nothing but a mud stain; a proposed Triceratops was just a composite of petroglyphs that do not represent animals, and what has been described as a carving of Monoclonius was nothing more than an enigmatic squiggle. There are no dinosaur carvings on Kachina Bridge.

The Kachina Bridge petroglyphs were not hoaxes or frauds. They were carved by people who once lived in the region, but there is no indication that any of them represent animals, living or extinct. What creationists thought they saw in the rocks has turned out to be an illusion, but I wonder how many of them will actually admit their mistake?


http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosau ... na-bridge/

Oh and by the way the image you showed is heavily enhanced - here's how it looks without the enhancement:

Image
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:20 am

What it is, Lionz 2.0?
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby crispybits on Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:27 am

I'm not sure why they also don't mention the angel with the trumpet right underneath the dinosaur or the bull on it's back to give a sense of size/scale while they're claiming it's a dinosaur....
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Re: Questions for Evolutionists

Postby Neoteny on Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:40 pm

Image

Looks like a dinosaur to me.
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
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