CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderators: Global Moderators, Discussions Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:11 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Thank-You Stahr for the protip!
I did not know that New Balance was made in the US! I'm definitely going to take a look at their shoes when I get a new pair of runners for spring.

Some important items, like shoes for example, I would be perfectly ok with someone buying foreign-made goods, so long as it's an issue of quality. My own hiking boots are English-made, but they are absolutely top-tier. In a survival situation, that quality is important. But when folks are saving $.30 by buying Mexican Orange-Juice that always bothers me. There's nothing wrong with Mexican labor or juice, I'd just like to see you spend $.30 to keep your neighbors employed. You kinda lose your creditably to me when you complain about the economy or whatever and you're buying foriegn first.


EDIT: I take that back, my hiking boots are Italian. And yes, expensive.


Its worse than that, because often a big reason for companies going overseas is to avoid clean manufacturing and safe worker rules. So, its not just that we get poor quality, move money into the hands of a few wealthy people more and more at the expense of average folks, we also add to future generations problems in multitude.... and yet, folks are ignorant enough to claim its "progress".


Yeah, cuz f*ck the poor foreign nationals.

Classic false argument.

Pretend this is about one group to be pitted against another. The truth is that damage in South America, Africa and Asia hurts us. IF the companies going overseas were truly paying their employees well AND doing what is right enivornmentally, then there would be no problem, we would all benefit, and it would be sustainable. Instead, they are taught to skim off whatever they can and be damned the consequences unless they are forced to acknowledge them... and a LOT of effort is spent in making sure they are not forced to acknowledge real problems, be it child slavery, dangerous or exploitive adult employee conditions, serious pollution or just plain poor product quality. Only the last has any real impact in market forces ... and that is usurped by an overall race to the bottom to beat costs of competitors.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:20 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Thank-You Stahr for the protip!
I did not know that New Balance was made in the US! I'm definitely going to take a look at their shoes when I get a new pair of runners for spring.

Some important items, like shoes for example, I would be perfectly ok with someone buying foreign-made goods, so long as it's an issue of quality. My own hiking boots are English-made, but they are absolutely top-tier. In a survival situation, that quality is important. But when folks are saving $.30 by buying Mexican Orange-Juice that always bothers me. There's nothing wrong with Mexican labor or juice, I'd just like to see you spend $.30 to keep your neighbors employed. You kinda lose your creditably to me when you complain about the economy or whatever and you're buying foriegn first.


EDIT: I take that back, my hiking boots are Italian. And yes, expensive.


Its worse than that, because often a big reason for companies going overseas is to avoid clean manufacturing and safe worker rules. So, its not just that we get poor quality, move money into the hands of a few wealthy people more and more at the expense of average folks, we also add to future generations problems in multitude.... and yet, folks are ignorant enough to claim its "progress".


Yeah, cuz f*ck the poor foreign nationals.

Classic false argument.

Pretend this is about one group to be pitted against another. The truth is that damage in South America, Africa and Asia hurts us. IF the companies going overseas were truly paying their employees well AND doing what is right enivornmentally, then there would be no problem, we would all benefit, and it would be sustainable. Instead, they are taught to skim off whatever they can and be damned the consequences unless they are forced to acknowledge them... and a LOT of effort is spent in making sure they are not forced to acknowledge real problems, be it child slavery, dangerous or exploitive adult employee conditions, serious pollution or just plain poor product quality. Only the last has any real impact in market forces ... and that is usurped by an overall race to the bottom to beat costs of competitors.


The point to which I responded is incorrect, but before I address this problem of yours, you'll have to answer the following:


If profit must be long-term, then does this mean that during the onset of the automobile, all horse-and-buggy producers should have had long-term profits?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=184804&start=45#p4046898
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 3582
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:28 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Thank-You Stahr for the protip!
I did not know that New Balance was made in the US! I'm definitely going to take a look at their shoes when I get a new pair of runners for spring.

Some important items, like shoes for example, I would be perfectly ok with someone buying foreign-made goods, so long as it's an issue of quality. My own hiking boots are English-made, but they are absolutely top-tier. In a survival situation, that quality is important. But when folks are saving $.30 by buying Mexican Orange-Juice that always bothers me. There's nothing wrong with Mexican labor or juice, I'd just like to see you spend $.30 to keep your neighbors employed. You kinda lose your creditably to me when you complain about the economy or whatever and you're buying foriegn first.


EDIT: I take that back, my hiking boots are Italian. And yes, expensive.


Its worse than that, because often a big reason for companies going overseas is to avoid clean manufacturing and safe worker rules. So, its not just that we get poor quality, move money into the hands of a few wealthy people more and more at the expense of average folks, we also add to future generations problems in multitude.... and yet, folks are ignorant enough to claim its "progress".


Yeah, cuz f*ck the poor foreign nationals.

Classic false argument.

Pretend this is about one group to be pitted against another. The truth is that damage in South America, Africa and Asia hurts us. IF the companies going overseas were truly paying their employees well AND doing what is right enivornmentally, then there would be no problem, we would all benefit, and it would be sustainable. Instead, they are taught to skim off whatever they can and be damned the consequences unless they are forced to acknowledge them... and a LOT of effort is spent in making sure they are not forced to acknowledge real problems, be it child slavery, dangerous or exploitive adult employee conditions, serious pollution or just plain poor product quality. Only the last has any real impact in market forces ... and that is usurped by an overall race to the bottom to beat costs of competitors.


The point to which I responded is incorrect, but before I address this problem of yours, you'll have to answer the following:


If profit must be long-term, then does this mean that during the onset of the automobile, all horse-and-buggy producers should have had long-term profits?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=184804&start=45#p4046898


Nice try at pretending you are actually saying something intelligent.

We had a time when we could afford some pollution, damage. The automobile debatably came about then. The REAL question, however is whether if companies had had to pay future generations of the irretrevable removal of gas, oil, other minerals.. pay future generations for the loss of availability of those products AND for the damage caused by both their use and removal, if technology would have moved us in a better, more sustainable direction.. even if a tad slower.

Without king oil, a LOT of things would have changed. Maybe worse, maybe better. That is irrelevant. What is relevant is that today, we no longer have that luxury and we know full well most of the damage caused and yet continue to pretend it isn't happening because it "costs too much" to account for the damage.

That isn't intelligence and its not even economics, its blind stupidity.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:37 pm

Ah, no direct answer, but no surprise at the tangent.

If you held your position consistently, then you'd realize the problems with it. But since you aver from self-reflection, while substituting toward tangents, then you'll continue spouting nonsense--e.g. pulling up tangents filled with excuses about god-knows-what in order to maintain a nonsensical position.

This is pretty much why I don't take you seriously. Good job at inadvertently providing examples of #1-3.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 3582
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:42 pm

Look Player, here is the problem with your last post. We spent the last couple of pages discussing CEOs, corporate power, and employees (and unemployment). This is the topic of this thread. In your last post, when confronted with a challenging question you veered into some other territory that is not the subject of this thread. I know you think that pollution, oil, energy, and the like are related to CEO salaries and unemployment, but you were the one who limited the discussion to CEOs, corporate power and unemployment. Your comments should be reflective of that limitation.

You said, "CEO salaries lead to unemployment." Others have attempted to debunk this theory. Instead of defending it, you're referring to other, tangential issues. That's why it is sometimes frustrating to have these sorts of discussions with you. In order to follow your discussion progression, I would now need to argue about pollution. That doesn't really make sense.
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6217
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:48 am

thegreekdog wrote:Look Player, here is the problem with your last post. We spent the last couple of pages discussing CEOs, corporate power, and employees (and unemployment). This is the topic of this thread. In your last post, when confronted with a challenging question you veered into some other territory that is not the subject of this thread. I know you think that pollution, oil, energy, and the like are related to CEO salaries and unemployment, but you were the one who limited the discussion to CEOs, corporate power and unemployment. Your comments should be reflective of that limitation.

My answer was to BS's query. That was the answer.

thegreekdog wrote:You said, "CEO salaries lead to unemployment." Others have attempted to debunk this theory. Instead of defending it, you're referring to other, tangential issues. That's why it is sometimes frustrating to have these sorts of discussions with you. In order to follow your discussion progression, I would now need to argue about pollution. That doesn't really make sense.

No, actually, I have not truly said that CEO salaries lead to unemployment. That is how you have chosen to interpret what I have said, that is the argument BBS seems to think "liberals" all make. I have said that the mentality that says that these CEOs have to have their exhorbitant salaries or the companies won't do so well, and that its perfectly OK if those salaries bonuses and other moves come at the expense of low level employees (and note, I am particularly talking about the lowest level employees, not necessarily all the in-bestween levels, some of which could easily disappear) is wrong and why our system is continuing downhill.

Again, the CEO salary bit is brought up, but only as a symptom. Fixing the salaries won't change the system, because they, alone are not the problem. Add in ignorance of real world impacts, including impacts of pollution, worker conditions and the picture is even worse.

As an example, I just listened to an interviewer of temporary in home care providers. These workers tend to make minimal wages. One company intereviewed was paying its workers $9 an hour (quite high for that industry). He went on and on about how he could not pay more, how it would drive his company under, etc. The problem? He bills the families over $20 an hour. So, basically, what he was saying was that the person who was responsible for his company, the one doing the work that allowed him to have his job was worth less than 1/2 of what his company c harged. Now, I fully understand insurance and overhead costs. Still... I am willing to be he makes a great deal more than he was paying any one of the service workers. Yet... it was those workers who made his job, not him.

THAT is the kind of thinking that is driving this country into the pits. The fundaments of any company are not its CEO, its the workers. That doesn't mean that workers should make more than CEOs or any other stupid comment I know several of you want to make, but it does mean that if those employees are not getting enpough to live on, are not making a wage that allows them to eat, have clothes, rent or buy a reasonable house (note.. I am fine with having 2-3 kids in a bedroom and so forth, but the plumbing and lights must work and it must be reasonably heated, etc.), then the "profits" that company claims to be making are coming at the backs of taxpayers.. even t hat CEO salary is coming on the backs of taxpayers asked to support the company employees so that the executives can take their high salaries.

The problem is not the salaries themselves. Some CEOs no doubt truly are worth millions. BUT.. right now, that calculation is based on just about everything BUT producting things, doing services in a straight and honest way. If the calculations were honest, then the first people to be paid reasonably are the basic workers. Other salaries come off of what is left, not the other way around.

I turn the old joke around, about the old farmer and the government labor guy. The labor guy comes and says he is investigating complaints that some people are not being paid reasonable wages, have to work too long of hours, etc. Teh farmer looks at him and says "we have only one guy like that here!". Of course, it is the farmer. That is a pretty true tale. BUT..the missing part is that the farmer may not always get the best wages, but he is the one who owns the land. He takes it in the shorts when times are tough, but he makes the profits when times are better.. and, he has the investment in the land itself to fall back upon.

The person who is "owed" first is not the owner, not the stockholders, it is the workers..a nd I don't just mean that they should get whatever measly wage you can get someone to work for. That is not real value. Serfs and slaves each worked and worked hard. If wages dictated working standards and value, then neither of those systems would have persisted. Today, workers are not serfs, but they are taken advantage of in many, many ways..a nd CEOs are often way clueless about what it takes for their workers to just get by.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:53 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:I have said that the mentality that says that these CEOs have to have their exhorbitant salaries or the companies won't do so well, and that its perfectly OK if those salaries bonuses and other moves come at the expense of low level employees (and note, I am particularly talking about the lowest level employees, not necessarily all the in-bestween levels, some of which could easily disappear) is wrong and why our system is continuing downhill.


I don't see a difference.
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6217
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:59 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:I have said that the mentality that says that these CEOs have to have their exhorbitant salaries or the companies won't do so well, and that its perfectly OK if those salaries bonuses and other moves come at the expense of low level employees (and note, I am particularly talking about the lowest level employees, not necessarily all the in-bestween levels, some of which could easily disappear) is wrong and why our system is continuing downhill.


I don't see a difference.

Well, then you need to think about it.

The problem is this idea that workers don't matter, products don't really matter.. its all about the people who run the company, not the inventors, the workers or even long term supplies. AND.. more and more of what folks use to judge a CEO are short term stock profits, rather than real profits.

The high CEO salaries comes about because the judgements used to determine worth are so very, very skewed. It is that judgement that is offbase.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:40 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:I have said that the mentality that says that these CEOs have to have their exhorbitant salaries or the companies won't do so well, and that its perfectly OK if those salaries bonuses and other moves come at the expense of low level employees (and note, I am particularly talking about the lowest level employees, not necessarily all the in-bestween levels, some of which could easily disappear) is wrong and why our system is continuing downhill.


I don't see a difference.

Well, then you need to think about it.

The problem is this idea that workers don't matter, products don't really matter.. its all about the people who run the company, not the inventors, the workers or even long term supplies. AND.. more and more of what folks use to judge a CEO are short term stock profits, rather than real profits.

The high CEO salaries comes about because the judgements used to determine worth are so very, very skewed. It is that judgement that is offbase.


There is not an idea that "workers don't matter" and that "products don't matter." Ultimately products and services are purchased because they are worthwhile and workers are hired and paid accordingly because they are valuable. If they aren't valuable, they won't be purchased or paid. Companies cannot make money if they don't have good employees, good products, and good services, regardless of shareholder dividends. Think about the highest paid CEOs (if you even know who they are) or think about CEOs generally. Are their companies successful? If they are, is it because of the products and services sold and the efforts of the employees?
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6217
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:05 am

My company's yearly meeting:

Average hourly labor cost : $13.00/hour

Plant Profits: $30 Million (est)
Ended 401K program - replaced with new 50/50 retirement plan
Ended optional premium Insurance coverage plan - replaced with standard plan for all employees
Plant Budget: $905,000 budget savings
Savings includes a $175,000 EPA lawsuit settlement
Plant Manager Salary: $1.1 Million (est)

Is this organized greed? Or good management? Do the workers matter?
Also, the company I work for doesn't hire any Americans for upper management. Rude. I mean, dafuq?
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Juan_Bottom
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: USA RULES! WHOOO!!!!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (3)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:10 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:My company's yearly meeting:

Average hourly labor cost : $13.00/hour

Plant Profits: $30 Million (est)
Ended 401K program - replaced with new 50/50 retirement plan
Ended optional premium Insurance coverage plan - replaced with standard plan for all employees
Plant Budget: $905,000 budget savings
Savings includes a $175,000 EPA lawsuit settlement
Plant Manager Salary: $1.1 Million (est)

Is this organized greed? Or good management? Do the workers matter?
Also, the company I work for doesn't hire any Americans for upper management. Rude. I mean, dafuq?


I have some follow-up questions.

(1) Are the hourly employees unionized?
(2) Does the company sell products/services that are successful?
(3) Are the employees educated or skilled in any way?
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6217
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby tzor on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:28 am

stahrgazer wrote:You are assuming the cost of keeping manufacturing within the United States would make your gadget too expensive.


The cost to produce a gadget in any given location is more than the cost of the worker who makes the gadget.

First, you need a building to make the gadget. In some cases you have to actually build that building (labor costs). Once you have built that building, you then have to contend with maintenance costs, regulation costs, property taxes, as well as materials and supply costs (including the cost for electricity). All of these add expense that must be passed down to the consumer.

These costs add up; companies actually move from some states to other states in part because of the cumulative effect of all these local factors within a given state.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant tzor
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:51 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:My company's yearly meeting:

Average hourly labor cost : $13.00/hour

Plant Profits: $30 Million (est)
Ended 401K program - replaced with new 50/50 retirement plan
Ended optional premium Insurance coverage plan - replaced with standard plan for all employees
Plant Budget: $905,000 budget savings
Savings includes a $175,000 EPA lawsuit settlement
Plant Manager Salary: $1.1 Million (est)

Is this organized greed? Or good management? Do the workers matter?
Also, the company I work for doesn't hire any Americans for upper management. Rude. I mean, dafuq?


I have some follow-up questions.

(1) Are the hourly employees unionized?
(2) Does the company sell products/services that are successful?
(3) Are the employees educated or skilled in any way?



No Unions at all, and the company won't/doesn't contract with unions.
The 3 sister-factory's are all in the United States, but all materials are imported from France. The product's packaging, and even the machines we use to produce, all come from France.
Yes, we literally import wrapping paper.

Extremely Successful. #2 in the market with overall worldwide-sales, with several products absolutely dominating their individual markets.

No skills or education required to start; everyone is hired in at the same rate irregardless. Nobody gets fired for anything either. Skilled positions open up at a rate of 60-1, or so I've been told. You have to be given a Tier designation in order to have a job with skill, but most of the Tiers are forced down people's throats. Usually you get twice the responsibility for $1 more an hour.
How the Tiers work
I'm designated tier 2 of 4, with 4 being the most skilled position. I am trained to do all of the work in my department except for tier 4 work, because I refuse the training. Tier pay works like this:

Temp Worker - $9 ($9.90 cap)
(Unskilled) Tier 1 - $10 hourly ($12 cap)
Tier 2 - $12 roughly ($15 cap)
Tier 3 - $15 roughly ($30 Cap)
Tier 4 - negotiated salary

If someone is out for the day, then someone else will be designated to do their job. If they are a Tier above you on the ladder, then you do their job for an extra $.25 an hour. Usually this work is designated to someone who is Tier 1 or 2. & That's why I've refused the training for Tier 4. So Tier pay isn't exactly connected to your actual skills, it's just about who you blow to get the Tier designation.

Benefits
No sick days
10 Days Vacation
No work on federal Holidays
Holiday/Sunday pay of Time + 1/2 if you are forced to work
No Christmas Bonus
Standard Insurance Plan
Random Scheduling
50/50 retirement plan
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Juan_Bottom
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: USA RULES! WHOOO!!!!
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (3)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:02 am

thegreekdog wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
The problem is this idea that workers don't matter, products don't really matter.. its all about the people who run the company, not the inventors, the workers or even long term supplies. AND.. more and more of what folks use to judge a CEO are short term stock profits, rather than real profits.

The high CEO salaries comes about because the judgements used to determine worth are so very, very skewed. It is that judgement that is offbase.


There is not an idea that "workers don't matter" and that "products don't matter."

Few will admit to that, but when you decide that its perfectly OK to pay someone only $7.50, though you know they cannot possibly rent an apartment or eat without subsidies for that.. it IS what you are saying. Worse, you are expecting the rest of society to pick up the tab.

thegreekdog wrote: Ultimately products and services are purchased because they are worthwhile and workers are hired and paid accordingly because they are valuable. If they aren't valuable, they won't be purchased or paid. Companies cannot make money if they don't have good employees, good products, and good services, regardless of shareholder dividends. Think about the highest paid CEOs (if you even know who they are) or think about CEOs generally. Are their companies successful? If they are, is it because of the products and services sold and the efforts of the employees?

This USED to be the case. Now the "product" most companies "sell" is stock profits and other kinds of "financial products". Ultimately, there are real products and services down there holding the system up, true.. but far, far, far too many people feel they have the right to siphon whatever they want off, leaving the actual workers with less than it takes them to live on. That is just not right.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: CEO salaries, corporate power and employees

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:19 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:Few will admit to that, but when you decide that its perfectly OK to pay someone only $7.50, though you know they cannot possibly rent an apartment or eat without subsidies for that.. it IS what you are saying. Worse, you are expecting the rest of society to pick up the tab.


I need to know how many people make $7.50 an hour. Further, I need to know, of those people, how many hours they work on a weekly basis at that particular job. I need to understand these things before I can get on a soapbox.

I have provided this data before and you've ignored. I've even provided data showing what the minimum amount a person living in Philadelphia must be paid to live (i.e. buy food, pay rent, pay for transportion, etc.). You've ignored that as well. I think that puts the onus on you at this point.

No politician who is in favor of raising the minimum wage is thinking about a single mother of four making minimum wage and working 60 hours a week. They are thinking of union agreements where salary increases tie to minimum wage. Why? Because the former people don't exist in any great numbers.

PLAYER57832 wrote:This USED to be the case. Now the "product" most companies "sell" is stock profits and other kinds of "financial products". Ultimately, there are real products and services down there holding the system up, true.. but far, far, far too many people feel they have the right to siphon whatever they want off, leaving the actual workers with less than it takes them to live on. That is just not right.


What in the hell are you talking about? For companies that buy and sell financial products, the employees are (a) not making minimum wage and (b) perfectly happy with their salaries.
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6217
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

PreviousNext

Return to Whose Forum is It Anyway?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: chang50, jonesthecurl and 7 guests

Login