Music with or without politics?

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Music with or without politics

With politics
5
45%
Without politics
2
18%
Can I haz cheezbrgr for voting now?
4
36%
 
Total votes : 11

Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby Gillipig on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:05 pm

kentington wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
kentington wrote:Ah, that Album was just icing on the cake.
I had heard the lead singer speaking in an interview on a talk show or something awhile back. He was saying how much he hated capitalism and how rich people are the bad guys yadda yadda.
But he is a product of capitalism and he is a rich guy trying to look like a regular person. I am annoyed with him as people were with Romney. I would prefer silence.


I'd like it if it was a smarter critique, or maybe some more specific cause. I've got no problem with someone bucking the system that produced them, as long as it's done with a bit more merit, smarts, and musical cleverness.

Greenday, not so much.


Yes I agree. Cleverness is always appreciated. But blasting American Idiot. I can't believe American's are willing to buy it. He is laughing all the way to the bank. Also, if he was trying to do something to try to change the system that would be different, but he seems to just complain.

I just like how they don't like america. It's a crappy country going outhill, + I just digg when someone says "idiot" and "america" in the same sentence.

I'm not solely picking on the U.S, I think there are a lot of countries with hyped egos, my own being one of them. I actually think the misstakes made in Sweden have been more severe than the misstakes made in US. But yes, americans are idiots (in general).
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby Lootifer on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:30 pm

Generally I dont like specific or detailed lyrics of any kind (political or otherwise); music lyrics should be a form of poetry and thus try and maintain a certain abstractness about them.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:00 pm

Lootifer wrote:Generally I dont like specific or detailed lyrics of any kind (political or otherwise); music lyrics should be a form of poetry and thus try and maintain a certain abstractness about them.


Why should poetry be abstract?
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:10 pm

I've never really been a fan of Green Day, but I don't think their politics would have pushed me away. It doesn't get much more vehemently liberal (or socialist) than Rage Against the Machine and they are one of my favorite bands of all time. "Who's down with DDT? / Yeah, you know me!"
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:16 pm

thegreekdog wrote:I've never really been a fan of Green Day, but I don't think their politics would have pushed me away. It doesn't get much more vehemently liberal (or socialist) than Rage Against the Machine and they are one of my favorite bands of all time. "Who's down with DDT? / Yeah, you know me!"


Fair point, but they've always been pretty political, and smart with it- combining the music with the words.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:18 pm

Gillipig wrote:
kentington wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
kentington wrote:Ah, that Album was just icing on the cake.
I had heard the lead singer speaking in an interview on a talk show or something awhile back. He was saying how much he hated capitalism and how rich people are the bad guys yadda yadda.
But he is a product of capitalism and he is a rich guy trying to look like a regular person. I am annoyed with him as people were with Romney. I would prefer silence.


I'd like it if it was a smarter critique, or maybe some more specific cause. I've got no problem with someone bucking the system that produced them, as long as it's done with a bit more merit, smarts, and musical cleverness.

Greenday, not so much.


Yes I agree. Cleverness is always appreciated. But blasting American Idiot. I can't believe American's are willing to buy it. He is laughing all the way to the bank. Also, if he was trying to do something to try to change the system that would be different, but he seems to just complain.

I just like how they don't like america. It's a crappy country going outhill, + I just digg when someone says "idiot" and "america" in the same sentence.

I'm not solely picking on the U.S, I think there are a lot of countries with hyped egos, my own being one of them. I actually think the misstakes made in Sweden have been more severe than the misstakes made in US. But yes, americans are idiots (in general).


You sure? The economy within Sweden has weathered the recent financial crisis pretty well---all things considered---THIS IS NPR, Nationalist Public Radio. HAIL OBAMA. HAIL OBAMA. HAIL OBAMA. OH RAWR OH RAWR OH RAWR.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:18 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Generally I dont like specific or detailed lyrics of any kind (political or otherwise); music lyrics should be a form of poetry and thus try and maintain a certain abstractness about them.


Why should poetry be abstract?


Because fiction usually gets it wrong anyway.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:21 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Generally I dont like specific or detailed lyrics of any kind (political or otherwise); music lyrics should be a form of poetry and thus try and maintain a certain abstractness about them.


Why should poetry be abstract?


Because fiction usually gets it wrong anyway.


Elaborate.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:31 pm

Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I've never really been a fan of Green Day, but I don't think their politics would have pushed me away. It doesn't get much more vehemently liberal (or socialist) than Rage Against the Machine and they are one of my favorite bands of all time. "Who's down with DDT? / Yeah, you know me!"


Fair point, but they've always been pretty political, and smart with it- combining the music with the words.


I don't think they are alone in that respect. Pearl Jam does a great job. So did Rage Against the Machine. I've heard Muse does it. Almost every System of a Down song is related to society or politics.

The difference is that I prefer Pearl Jam, Rage, and System of a Down to Green Day because of the music (and I like to think those musicians are much more talented than Green Day, but I may be wrong about that).
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:36 pm

For the most part I don't really register what singers are saying anyway. There are a couple of bands where I'll go, "ah, ok, yeah cool." But most the time the singing is just another instrument.

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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:37 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:For the most part I don't really register what singers are saying anyway. There are a couple of bands where I'll go, "ah, ok, yeah cool." But most the time the singing is just another instrument.

-TG


I suspect that's how I am as well. It's more the melody related to the voice than the words that does it for me. Half the time I don't even know what Eddie Vedder is saying. Yellow Ledbetter is my favorite PJ song and I have no idea what the f*ck he is talking about.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:38 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I've never really been a fan of Green Day, but I don't think their politics would have pushed me away. It doesn't get much more vehemently liberal (or socialist) than Rage Against the Machine and they are one of my favorite bands of all time. "Who's down with DDT? / Yeah, you know me!"


Fair point, but they've always been pretty political, and smart with it- combining the music with the words.


I don't think they are alone in that respect. Pearl Jam does a great job. So did Rage Against the Machine. I've heard Muse does it. Almost every System of a Down song is related to society or politics.

The difference is that I prefer Pearl Jam, Rage, and System of a Down to Green Day because of the music (and I like to think those musicians are much more talented than Green Day, but I may be wrong about that).


No, they very much are. Greenday are talented, of course, and prolific. They're not going to be Rage against the Machine though.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:40 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:For the most part I don't really register what singers are saying anyway. There are a couple of bands where I'll go, "ah, ok, yeah cool." But most the time the singing is just another instrument.

-TG


I suspect that's how I am as well. It's more the melody related to the voice than the words that does it for me. Half the time I don't even know what Eddie Vedder is saying. Yellow Ledbetter is my favorite PJ song and I have no idea what the f*ck he is talking about.


I was certain that Vedder's calling card was changing his ambiguous, slurred lyrics each performance anyway. Maybe that was Morrison. Hmm... getting singer profiles mixed up now.

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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:42 pm

Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I've never really been a fan of Green Day, but I don't think their politics would have pushed me away. It doesn't get much more vehemently liberal (or socialist) than Rage Against the Machine and they are one of my favorite bands of all time. "Who's down with DDT? / Yeah, you know me!"


Fair point, but they've always been pretty political, and smart with it- combining the music with the words.


I don't think they are alone in that respect. Pearl Jam does a great job. So did Rage Against the Machine. I've heard Muse does it. Almost every System of a Down song is related to society or politics.

The difference is that I prefer Pearl Jam, Rage, and System of a Down to Green Day because of the music (and I like to think those musicians are much more talented than Green Day, but I may be wrong about that).


No, they very much are. Greenday are talented, of course, and prolific. They're not going to be Rage against the Machine though.


I always thought of Green Day as a three chord band with a guy who couldn't sing, but they are my personal tastes and not objective by any means. I also should say that I haven't listened to a Green Day album in 15 years so their musical talents could be more to my liking now.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:43 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:For the most part I don't really register what singers are saying anyway. There are a couple of bands where I'll go, "ah, ok, yeah cool." But most the time the singing is just another instrument.

-TG


I suspect that's how I am as well. It's more the melody related to the voice than the words that does it for me. Half the time I don't even know what Eddie Vedder is saying. Yellow Ledbetter is my favorite PJ song and I have no idea what the f*ck he is talking about.


I was certain that Vedder's calling card was changing his ambiguous, slurred lyrics each performance anyway. Maybe that was Morrison. Hmm... getting singer profiles mixed up now.

-TG


I don't know if that was his calling card, but he does it at live shows for many of the songs. I've found that on any song that PJ covers, Eddie changes the words.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:50 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I've never really been a fan of Green Day, but I don't think their politics would have pushed me away. It doesn't get much more vehemently liberal (or socialist) than Rage Against the Machine and they are one of my favorite bands of all time. "Who's down with DDT? / Yeah, you know me!"


Fair point, but they've always been pretty political, and smart with it- combining the music with the words.


I don't think they are alone in that respect. Pearl Jam does a great job. So did Rage Against the Machine. I've heard Muse does it. Almost every System of a Down song is related to society or politics.

The difference is that I prefer Pearl Jam, Rage, and System of a Down to Green Day because of the music (and I like to think those musicians are much more talented than Green Day, but I may be wrong about that).


No, they very much are. Greenday are talented, of course, and prolific. They're not going to be Rage against the Machine though.


I always thought of Green Day as a three chord band with a guy who couldn't sing, but they are my personal tastes and not objective by any means. I also should say that I haven't listened to a Green Day album in 15 years so their musical talents could be more to my liking now.


Four chords



*May or may not contain Greenday
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:53 pm

Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I've never really been a fan of Green Day, but I don't think their politics would have pushed me away. It doesn't get much more vehemently liberal (or socialist) than Rage Against the Machine and they are one of my favorite bands of all time. "Who's down with DDT? / Yeah, you know me!"


Fair point, but they've always been pretty political, and smart with it- combining the music with the words.


I don't think they are alone in that respect. Pearl Jam does a great job. So did Rage Against the Machine. I've heard Muse does it. Almost every System of a Down song is related to society or politics.

The difference is that I prefer Pearl Jam, Rage, and System of a Down to Green Day because of the music (and I like to think those musicians are much more talented than Green Day, but I may be wrong about that).


No, they very much are. Greenday are talented, of course, and prolific. They're not going to be Rage against the Machine though.


I always thought of Green Day as a three chord band with a guy who couldn't sing, but they are my personal tastes and not objective by any means. I also should say that I haven't listened to a Green Day album in 15 years so their musical talents could be more to my liking now.


Four chords



*May or may not contain Greenday


tbf chord progressions are pretty universal in popular music, except for maybe some jazz stuff.

Still hate Green Day, though.

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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby Gillipig on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:37 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Gillipig wrote:
kentington wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
kentington wrote:Ah, that Album was just icing on the cake.
I had heard the lead singer speaking in an interview on a talk show or something awhile back. He was saying how much he hated capitalism and how rich people are the bad guys yadda yadda.
But he is a product of capitalism and he is a rich guy trying to look like a regular person. I am annoyed with him as people were with Romney. I would prefer silence.


I'd like it if it was a smarter critique, or maybe some more specific cause. I've got no problem with someone bucking the system that produced them, as long as it's done with a bit more merit, smarts, and musical cleverness.

Greenday, not so much.


Yes I agree. Cleverness is always appreciated. But blasting American Idiot. I can't believe American's are willing to buy it. He is laughing all the way to the bank. Also, if he was trying to do something to try to change the system that would be different, but he seems to just complain.

I just like how they don't like america. It's a crappy country going outhill, + I just digg when someone says "idiot" and "america" in the same sentence.

I'm not solely picking on the U.S, I think there are a lot of countries with hyped egos, my own being one of them. I actually think the misstakes made in Sweden have been more severe than the misstakes made in US. But yes, americans are idiots (in general).


You sure? The economy within Sweden has weathered the recent financial crisis pretty well---all things considered---THIS IS NPR, Nationalist Public Radio. HAIL OBAMA. HAIL OBAMA. HAIL OBAMA. OH RAWR OH RAWR OH RAWR.

Hah, because you know so much about swedish domestic politics. We've set ourself up for a very dark future and it's nothing changing a few policies can change.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby Army of GOD on Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:38 am

As long as the music is good, I don't care. System of a Down? Ok. RATM? Ok.

Green Day? f*ck off.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby oVo on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:19 pm

My preference is inspired music that is skillfully played and heartfelt, regardless of complexity or simplicity. I do like thoughtful lyrics over petty repetitive pop stuff regardless of the message they might contain.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:38 pm

Symmetry wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Generally I dont like specific or detailed lyrics of any kind (political or otherwise); music lyrics should be a form of poetry and thus try and maintain a certain abstractness about them.


Why should poetry be abstract?


Because fiction usually gets it wrong anyway.


Elaborate.


What is the difference between fiction and nonfiction?
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:42 pm

Gillipig wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Gillipig wrote:
kentington wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
kentington wrote:Ah, that Album was just icing on the cake.
I had heard the lead singer speaking in an interview on a talk show or something awhile back. He was saying how much he hated capitalism and how rich people are the bad guys yadda yadda.
But he is a product of capitalism and he is a rich guy trying to look like a regular person. I am annoyed with him as people were with Romney. I would prefer silence.


I'd like it if it was a smarter critique, or maybe some more specific cause. I've got no problem with someone bucking the system that produced them, as long as it's done with a bit more merit, smarts, and musical cleverness.

Greenday, not so much.


Yes I agree. Cleverness is always appreciated. But blasting American Idiot. I can't believe American's are willing to buy it. He is laughing all the way to the bank. Also, if he was trying to do something to try to change the system that would be different, but he seems to just complain.

I just like how they don't like america. It's a crappy country going outhill, + I just digg when someone says "idiot" and "america" in the same sentence.

I'm not solely picking on the U.S, I think there are a lot of countries with hyped egos, my own being one of them. I actually think the misstakes made in Sweden have been more severe than the misstakes made in US. But yes, americans are idiots (in general).


You sure? The economy within Sweden has weathered the recent financial crisis pretty well---all things considered---THIS IS NPR, Nationalist Public Radio. HAIL OBAMA. HAIL OBAMA. HAIL OBAMA. OH RAWR OH RAWR OH RAWR.

Hah, because you know so much about swedish domestic politics. We've set ourself up for a very dark future and it's nothing changing a few policies can change.


So you think that the banking reforms which the Swedish government implemented (roughly in the 1990s) will lead to abysmal ruin?

How do you think past twenty years of Swedish public policy compare to Greece's? Or the US'?
(You say 'things will get worse!' but compared to what?)

What is the "very dark future" of Sweden?



(video unrelated)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg43FDoZFoY
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby kentington on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:00 pm

Symmetry wrote:Four chords



*May or may not contain Greenday


I actually like that video. It was entertaining.

It is amazing how much you can get out of a couple of chords.
Bruceswar » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:59 pm wrote:We all had tons of men..
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby Lootifer on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:45 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Generally I dont like specific or detailed lyrics of any kind (political or otherwise); music lyrics should be a form of poetry and thus try and maintain a certain abstractness about them.


Why should poetry be abstract?

Because the value of the art is not in the physical detail. It is in all the small details that make it a masterpiece... creativity, originality, subtlty, cleverness, technique, etc etc.

Anyone can paint by numbers, just like anyone can say "f*ck the motherfucking government yo!"
I go to the gym to justify my mockery of fat people.
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Re: Music with or without politics?

Postby Symmetry on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:46 pm

Lootifer wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Generally I dont like specific or detailed lyrics of any kind (political or otherwise); music lyrics should be a form of poetry and thus try and maintain a certain abstractness about them.


Why should poetry be abstract?

Because the value of the art is not in the physical detail. It is in all the small details that make it a masterpiece... creativity, originality, subtlty, cleverness, technique, etc etc.

Anyone can paint by numbers, just like anyone can say "f*ck the motherfucking government yo!"


Wilfred Owen:

DULCE ET DECORUM EST

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.
Gas! Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . .
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.


An amazing poem, brutal to read. Very much because of the physical detail.
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