Morsi

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderators: Global Moderators, Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Morsi

Postby oVo on Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:15 am

Morsi & Co. did not do enough to show the general population
good faith that efforts were being made to end corruption
and improve life in Egypt.

Of course the bad economy there would be hard for anyone
to turn around in such a short time, but the "democratically
elected government" still blew their opportunity.

So now Egypt has now experienced a military coup and the world
can only sit back and observe what happens next. Of course there
will be no shortage of expert opinions tossed about for weeks to
come about what to expect next.
User avatar
Major oVo
 
Posts: 3832
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:41 pm
Location: Antarctica
Medals: 10
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2)

Re: Morsi

Postby patches70 on Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:16 am

Ray Rider wrote:Maybe I'm missing something here, but although I oppose Morsi and his government, that was the democratically elected government chosen by a majority of Egyptians, is it not? What's going to be different this time around compared to the last coup & election? Do you think the opinions and voting of the populace will have changed enough to actually bring a moderate party to majority government in the country? I have deep reservations and am quite skeptical that the Egyptian people are ready for a liberal democratic government; there must first be a change of culture and mindset throughout the people of region.

All the same, I wish them the best and hope they do choose better this time around. In the mean time, I believe all Western governments should stop messing around with their politics (that includes government-funds in the form of foreign aid).


Whoa now, you gotta remember a few things about Morsi and why the Egyptian military is showing him no morsi (heh heh).

Yeah, he was elected in June 2012 with just over 50% of the vote. He was the head of the FJP (founded by the Muslim Brotherhood) and he resigned that post upon being elected, as promised. So he appears a "moderate". At first.

Then in November 2012, Morsi gave himself unlimited powers to "protect the people", he gave himself the power to legislate with out judicial review or oversight. He made himself a dictator. He pretty much just shit all over the Egyptian constitution.

It would be akin of Mister Obama one day saying "Yeah, I'm the executive, but I'm going to go ahead and write an executive order giving me the power to make laws without any Congressional oversight or Supreme court review". As the executive, Mister Obama doesn't have the power to legislate. That's Congress' job.

What's the point of Egypt's parliament if the president is just going to make laws himself without even bothering to have said laws and powers without any debate or oversight? Morsi did just what plenty of other dictators have done through the decades. Used democratic process to gain power and then stripped that very democratic process to take further power beyond what he was elected to have.

And so the Egyptian people went nuts. I can't say as I blame them. We'd do the same (I'd hope) if Obama or Bush or any other president past/present/future went so far as Morsi did. As I'd hope our military would honor their sacred oath and defend the constitution and arrest said president past/present/future and restore the Republic.
Corporal patches70
 
Posts: 644
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:44 pm
Medals: 2
Standard Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Morsi

Postby patches70 on Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:31 am

But I think what really pissed off the Egyptian military was when Morsi, in June, said that intervention was needed in Syria to oust Assad. Egyptian clerics where calling for holy war in Syria to remove Assad and the "infidels" who were protecting him.
The Egyptian military didn't like that Morsi was effectively encouraging Egyptian citizens to become jihadists fighting abroad.

The Egyptian military immediately came out and squashed Morsi's rhetoric saying that Egypt's military had one purpose, to protect Egypt's borders, not to go fighting some holy war between warring religious sects. The Egyptian military is very wary of such things, of such people. Have been for going on 60 years now. Egyptian military has always worked and trained closely with American military and they know better than anyone the capabilities the US has and they don't ever want to come to blows with the US because some nutbag president goes calling for holy wars.

I think that was probably the final straw for the Egyptian military, they said "that's enough of this guy" and this is where we are today.

All said and done, the best thing the US can do, is stay the hell out of it. Egypt will figure it out all on their own. Morsi's position on Syria does show to how he was perceived as a lapdog of the US. A lapdog that had attempted to take unlimited power despite a supposed constitution and democratic process. And thus he is "our bitch" as the Egyptian people have come to regard him.

US interventionist policies, the gift that keeps giving blow back.
Corporal patches70
 
Posts: 644
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:44 pm
Medals: 2
Standard Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Morsi

Postby jonesthecurl on Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:21 am

I really hope this attempt works out for the Egyptian people.
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class jonesthecurl
 
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:42 am
Location: disused action figure warehouse
Medals: 19
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Morsi

Postby jonesthecurl on Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:22 am

Having said which, there's this problem with Morsi: the more you ignore him, the closer he gets.
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class jonesthecurl
 
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:42 am
Location: disused action figure warehouse
Medals: 19
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Morsi

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:29 am

patches70 wrote:
Ray Rider wrote:Maybe I'm missing something here, but although I oppose Morsi and his government, that was the democratically elected government chosen by a majority of Egyptians, is it not? What's going to be different this time around compared to the last coup & election? Do you think the opinions and voting of the populace will have changed enough to actually bring a moderate party to majority government in the country? I have deep reservations and am quite skeptical that the Egyptian people are ready for a liberal democratic government; there must first be a change of culture and mindset throughout the people of region.

All the same, I wish them the best and hope they do choose better this time around. In the mean time, I believe all Western governments should stop messing around with their politics (that includes government-funds in the form of foreign aid).


Whoa now, you gotta remember a few things about Morsi and why the Egyptian military is showing him no morsi (heh heh).

Yeah, he was elected in June 2012 with just over 50% of the vote. He was the head of the FJP (founded by the Muslim Brotherhood) and he resigned that post upon being elected, as promised. So he appears a "moderate". At first.

Then in November 2012, Morsi gave himself unlimited powers to "protect the people", he gave himself the power to legislate with out judicial review or oversight. He made himself a dictator. He pretty much just shit all over the Egyptian constitution


Well, perhaps he had to because the Mubarak-backed supreme court was going to basically beat the crap outta the muslim brotherhood with their "judicial oversight."

The military ensured that their guys stayed in the courts, so it's no surprise they're in a hissy-fit with the Muslim Brotherhood. The military wants the power, and the MB don't want to give it to them.

It's not about democracy or constitutions because we know the military doesn't really give a shit about either--so long as it retains much of its power and spending. The military will keep pushing until they get some government which goes easy on them and their military-owned enterprises.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4663
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Morsi

Postby patches70 on Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:14 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:It's not about democracy or constitutions because we know the military doesn't really give a shit about either--so long as it retains much of its power and spending. The military will keep pushing until they get some government which goes easy on them and their military-owned enterprises.


But the Egyptian military was independent anyway under the Morsi. They made sure of that from the get go. There is a lot of history between the Egyptian military and the Muslim Brotherhood. They hate each other. In fact, early on way back when in the 50's, after the Egyptian military overthrew the Egyptian king, the Muslim Brotherhood was rounded up and tossed in prison, killed or expelled from the country.

Now we in the US may be leery of military coups, rightfully so, but in Egypt some good has come from it. Sure, the military has all the real power, but they've also instituted reforms. During the Egyptian monarchy the people were treated pretty badly. Low rates of literacy, poverty and injustice. Not to mention the military blamed the monarchy for the poor showing in the wars against Israel.

Any government that comes, including Morsi's, has been and will be easy on the military. The Egyptian military not only controls all the tanks and troops, but they hold the keys to all industry and markets in Egypt. Not to mention their close ties to the US, virtually all Egyptian officers are trained in and by the US military. Part of the $1.3 billion in military aid given to Egypt every year by the US.

No, the Egyptian military has nothing to fear from Egyptian government or judges. They fear the people's wrath. As decent as the Egyptian military is, they don't want to fight in a civil war, nor do they wish to see Egypt go down that path and so is quite willing to step in when they feel the need to keep Egypt as stable as possible.
Hell, the military liked Mubarik just fine, but they threw him under the bus, didn't they? Why? It wasn't so that asshats like the Muslim Brotherhood could take over, I can tell ya that!
Hahah.

Morsi is a MB stooge, and despite some shallow appearances, Morsi is also an extremist. The Egyptian military doesn't like that. Obviously.
Corporal patches70
 
Posts: 644
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:44 pm
Medals: 2
Standard Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Morsi

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:14 pm

patches70 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:It's not about democracy or constitutions because we know the military doesn't really give a shit about either--so long as it retains much of its power and spending. The military will keep pushing until they get some government which goes easy on them and their military-owned enterprises.


But the Egyptian military was independent anyway under the Morsi. They made sure of that from the get go.


And that's a problem. The Old School Mubarak crowd stays in and independent.

I don't see how this counters what I'm saying.

Now we in the US may be leery of military coups, rightfully so, but in Egypt some good has come from it. Sure, the military has all the real power, but they've also instituted reforms. During the Egyptian monarchy the people were treated pretty badly. Low rates of literacy, poverty and injustice. Not to mention the military blamed the monarchy for the poor showing in the wars against Israel.


So has the Saudi king, but it's not like he's the best option for the people...

Any government that comes, including Morsi's, has been and will be easy on the military. The Egyptian military not only controls all the tanks and troops, but they hold the keys to all industry and markets in Egypt. Not to mention their close ties to the US, virtually all Egyptian officers are trained in and by the US military. Part of the $1.3 billion in military aid given to Egypt every year by the US.

No, the Egyptian military has nothing to fear from Egyptian government or judges. They fear the people's wrath. As decent as the Egyptian military is, they don't want to fight in a civil war, nor do they wish to see Egypt go down that path and so is quite willing to step in when they feel the need to keep Egypt as stable as possible.
Hell, the military liked Mubarik just fine, but they threw him under the bus, didn't they? Why? It wasn't so that asshats like the Muslim Brotherhood could take over, I can tell ya that!
Hahah.

Morsi is a MB stooge, and despite some shallow appearances, Morsi is also an extremist. The Egyptian military doesn't like that. Obviously.


Sure, they do. That's the source which can cut their funding, and they got the judges on their side...

These guys aren't some all-loving group which steers the country toward the Greater Good. They let go of Mubarak after waiting around to see if the protesters would have a good chance in winning. It's not like they're leading this change.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4663
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Morsi

Postby Woodruff on Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:56 pm

This kid is rockin'...I am impressed. This is apparently translated quite accurately:

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4973
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Morsi

Postby jonesthecurl on Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:19 pm

Woodruff wrote:This kid is rockin'...I am impressed. This is apparently translated quite accurately:




I'd vote for that kid.
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class jonesthecurl
 
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:42 am
Location: disused action figure warehouse
Medals: 19
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Morsi

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:46 pm

So, the military came in and installed a "new president"--or rather, a puppet who used to work one of the supreme courts. Surprise, surprise!

Now, it's up to the military to guide the citizens of Egypt's Glorious New Democracy of the Military People! Onward! To free elections! Again!
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4663
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Morsi

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:16 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:So, the military came in and installed a "new president"--or rather, a puppet who used to work one of the supreme courts. Surprise, surprise!

Now, it's up to the military to guide the citizens of Egypt's Glorious New Democracy of the Military People! Onward! To free elections! Again!

Maybe Egypt is looking to jumpstart their economy through elections. Much like how a key industry of our US democracy is elections as well.


--Andy
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class AndyDufresne
Retired Administrator
 
Posts: 25589
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo
Medals: 20
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) General Achievement (4) General Contribution (2)

Re: Morsi

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:39 pm

Perhaps you're right. Protests = employment.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4663
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Morsi

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:59 pm

Are we still talking about Morsi? Isn't he yesterday's news?
User avatar
Lieutenant Dukasaur
Head Socialite
Head Socialite
 
Posts: 11501
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Beautiful Niagara
Medals: 136
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (19)
General Achievement (15) Clan Achievement (9) Training Achievement (2) Challenge Achievement (5) Tournament Contribution (31)

Re: Morsi

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:22 pm

Finally, they are standing up to the MB.
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 2350
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm
Medals: 94
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (5)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (10) Training Achievement (9) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (13)

Next

Return to Babble-On Five

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Phatscotty

Login