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2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:45 pm

rdsrds2120 wrote:Andy, BBS, you're foolish statements make Deepak Chopra cry.

show


It's time to wake up America

BMO


Guys, I think RDS is onto something. Look at the map. There are 50 states, plus Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic (?) for obvious reasons. Now, that makes a total of 52. 52...what so special about 52? Just look a little closer.

52 is the 5th Bell number. Bell numbers are important because mathematicians say so. Now, mathematicians are a form of scientists who use numbers and geometry and money, and junk, to investigate the world and to better understand it, and junk.

Now, scientists, we all know, can't be trusted. Especially Darwin. But there is one scientist we can trust, Einstein. But what's Einstein's connection to all of this? Einstein predicted that RDS would be here at this very moment telling us about important information. Sufficient evidence can be found in this unaltered photo:

Image

As we can all see, clearly Einstein has scribbled this equation: "R" and "D" and a backward "S" (to throw off his contemporary counterparts) thus ensuring the message would ONLY be understood by us at the right time, and moment in history (NOW).

I think it is safe to say, RDS is the messiah, as foretold by Einstein, and his words should MUST be heeded.


--Andy
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:49 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
The warnings Bush received ...


Yeah, this is how conspiracy theories work.

A mundane fact (Bush was warned Al Qaeda might attack some unspecified location in the United States using some unspecified means at some point in the unspecified future) gets shortened to a caught-red-handed gotcha (Bush was warned of 9/11). Then, several of the gotchas are piled on top of each other to create an, apparently, common sense conclusion.


Have you ever read/are familiar with The Day of Deceit?
With sabotage, it's like I'm running into the 2nd edition of this book. Some pesky kid Found and Replaced "FDR" with "Bush" and "Pearl Harbor" with "9-11."
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:52 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:Andy, BBS, you're foolish statements make Deepak Chopra cry.

show


It's time to wake up America

BMO


Guys, I think RDS is onto something. Look at the map. There are 50 states, plus Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic (?) for obvious reasons. Now, that makes a total of 52. 52...what so special about 52? Just look a little closer.

52 is the 5th Bell number. Bell numbers are important because mathematicians say so. Now, mathematicians are a form of scientists who use numbers and geometry and money, and junk, to investigate the world and to better understand it, and junk.

Now, scientists, we all know, can't be trusted. Especially Darwin. But there is one scientist we can trust, Einstein. But what's Einstein's connection to all of this? Einstein predicted that RDS would be here at this very moment telling us about important information. Sufficient evidence can be found in this unaltered photo:

Image

As we can all see, clearly Einstein has scribbled this equation: "R" and "D" and a backward "S" (to throw off his contemporary counterparts) thus ensuring the message would ONLY be understood by us at the right time, and moment in history (NOW).

I think it is safe to say, RDS is the messiah, as foretold by Einstein, and his words should MUST be heeded.


--Andy


Oh, don't get me started! What about Bernoulli Numbers?

Look at this graph:

Image

Clearly, as the number of States and US territories (IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN) increases, then we'll run out of food because n = food. The Elite are engaging in wars to make us all starve--and they received a warning about it.


And this:

Image

B3 and B4 represents the REAL dice of ConquerClub--whenever I play. Clearly, I'm being screwed here.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby _sabotage_ on Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:00 pm

I see, so now it is Saxitoxin who is choosing to ignore all solid evidence and focus on a single point that is open to interpretation.

Excellent.

Please answer why the flight data provided doesn't correspond with the official account provided. Why does the data show a different take off gate than was actually used by flight 77?

I have already presented several varifiable, irrefutable hard facts that show that 9/11 could not have happened according to the official account, all are ignored.

These facts point to an inside job individually and collectively. If you wish to post here saying contrary it would be pertinent that you address these facts or your points remain unsubstantiated ideological willful ignorance.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:11 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:I see, so now it is Saxitoxin who is choosing to ignore all solid evidence and focus on a single point that is open to interpretation.

Excellent.

Please answer why the flight data provided doesn't correspond with the official account provided. Why does the data show a different take off gate than was actually used by flight 77?

I have already presented several varifiable, irrefutable hard facts that show that 9/11 could not have happened according to the official account, all are ignored.

These facts point to an inside job individually and collectively. If you wish to post here saying contrary it would be pertinent that you address these facts or your points remain unsubstantiated ideological willful ignorance.


If the first piece of "evidence" presented is a very creative interpretation/dramatization of a NYT article, I don't feel responsible for needing to refute the subsequent dozen pieces of evidence point by point. It's fair to assume similar leaps of logic were made in those, as well.

To prove a conspiracy you need an unbroken sequence of events supported by documentation. If you break one chain in that sequence it's not enough that you have a lot of links about other things. When you go to court, they don't take all your evidence, put it in a box, weigh it, and whoever has the heaviest box wins.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby _sabotage_ on Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:17 pm

Of course. The first piece of evidence, the NYTimes article was not presented as evidence of an inside job, it was presented as evidence supporting the initial post stating that believing Bush had prior knowledge was a conspiracy theory.

If you wish for a point by point analysis suggesting an inside job, I revert to the full length movie that I posted.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:23 pm

Awhile ago I went to some 9/11 Truth presentation. It started with an "UNEDITED!" video being shown, played over a bed of spooky synthesizer music. At the time I wondered: why does the "RAW DATA!" always come with spooky synthesizer music?

it was presented as evidence supporting the initial post stating that believing Bush had prior knowledge


Yeah, as previously noted, it only does that if the summary of the article is kept as vague as possible (i.e. "had prior knowledge" instead of "had prior knowledge that something would happen somewhere at sometime, someway").
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:25 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:Of course. The first piece of evidence, the NYTimes article was not presented as evidence of an inside job, it was presented as evidence supporting the initial post stating that believing Bush had prior knowledge was a conspiracy theory.


But I've already provided enough criticism which should make anyone skeptical of what's missing from the author's position. He simply isn't addressing my concerns, nor is he exact enough in the "Bush knew about it" claim. Even the author makes a dubious conclusion--which hardly confirms the soundness of your claim.

But of course, you'll ignore this because it doesn't matter how faulty the initial claim is. Your box of evidence feels heavy enough as is, right?
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby _sabotage_ on Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:32 pm

I've already addressed this.

You haven't provided a single piece of evidence validating your official story theory, you haven't even stated you believe the official theory.

If you would like, for example, to base the fact that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon based on the flight data provided, please say so.

If you would like to base it on video evidence of the 80 + cameras focused on the site, please do so.

If you would like to base it on the physical evidence at the site, please do so.

If you would like to base it on procedure, please do so.

Please provide a single piece of evidence along with a theory that it supports. Otherwise you are just being a critic.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:43 pm

saxitoxin wrote:When you go to court, they don't take all your evidence, put it in a box, weigh it, and whoever has the heaviest box wins.

This is how the legal system should work.


--Andy
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby jonesthecurl on Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:53 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:Andy, BBS, you're foolish statements make Deepak Chopra cry.

show


It's time to wake up America

BMO


Guys, I think RDS is onto something. Look at the map. There are 50 states, plus Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic (?) for obvious reasons. Now, that makes a total of 52. 52...what so special about 52? Just look a little closer.

52 is the 5th Bell number. Bell numbers are important because mathematicians say so. Now, mathematicians are a form of scientists who use numbers and geometry and money, and junk, to investigate the world and to better understand it, and junk.

Now, scientists, we all know, can't be trusted. Especially Darwin. But there is one scientist we can trust, Einstein. But what's Einstein's connection to all of this? Einstein predicted that RDS would be here at this very moment telling us about important information. Sufficient evidence can be found in this unaltered photo:

Image

As we can all see, clearly Einstein has scribbled this equation: "R" and "D" and a backward "S" (to throw off his contemporary counterparts) thus ensuring the message would ONLY be understood by us at the right time, and moment in history (NOW).

I think it is safe to say, RDS is the messiah, as foretold by Einstein, and his words should MUST be heeded.


--Andy


Then there was the time-travelling episode of Animaniacs in which they wrote "acme" on a blackboard. Einstein read it in a mirror and it said emc2.
Now they want us to think this was just a joke...
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby rdsrds2120 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:17 pm

jonesthecurl wrote:Now they want us to think this was just a joke...




BMO
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby _sabotage_ on Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:44 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Awhile ago I went to some 9/11 Truth presentation. It started with an "UNEDITED!" video being shown, played over a bed of spooky synthesizer music. At the time I wondered: why does the "RAW DATA!" always come with spooky synthesizer music?

it was presented as evidence supporting the initial post stating that believing Bush had prior knowledge


Yeah, as previously noted, it only does that if the summary of the article is kept as vague as possible (i.e. "had prior knowledge" instead of "had prior knowledge that something would happen somewhere at sometime, someway").


As in any unexplained situation, there will be a lot of speculation. I have tried to provide a simple link to highly respected commentators using factual evidence. You have chosen to ignore it.

As for me being very vague, the original post was quite vague. I have addressed this issue. Whether or not there was conflicting information available, Bush had several warnings which he could have taken action on, instead, all actions taken assured the success of 9/11.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:40 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:I've already addressed this.

You haven't provided a single piece of evidence validating your official story theory, you haven't even stated you believe the official theory.

If you would like, for example, to base the fact that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon based on the flight data provided, please say so.

If you would like to base it on video evidence of the 80 + cameras focused on the site, please do so.

If you would like to base it on the physical evidence at the site, please do so.

If you would like to base it on procedure, please do so.

Please provide a single piece of evidence along with a theory that it supports. Otherwise you are just being a critic.


Yeah, I'm being a critic. There is no shame in being a reasonable skeptic.

Anyway, we're still waiting for you to address the community's concerns on the "Bush knew about it" claim. That NY Times article failed to resolve that issue, and you've failed to counter my criticism about it.

Let me predict your next move.... I see smoke.... plenty of it. But no fire. Alas.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:23 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:You haven't provided a single piece of evidence validating your official story theory,


If I say trees can ride bicycles it's my job to prove it, not your job to find a source that says they can't.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby _sabotage_ on Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:27 pm

Ok, so what could the warnings have told him had he bothered to take note or follow up on them?

From CNN

President Bush's daily intelligence briefings in the weeks leading up to the September 11 terror attacks included a warning of the possibility that Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network would attempt to hijack a U.S.-based airliner, senior administration officials said Wednesday.

NYTimes

The White House said tonight that President Bush had been warned by American intelligence agencies in early August that Osama bin Laden was seeking to hijack aircraft but that the warnings did not contemplate the possibility that the hijackers would turn the planes into guided missiles for a terrorist attack.

As reported in the respected German daily Frankfurter Algemeine Zeitung (FAZ) on Sept. 14, 2001 the German intelligence service, the BND, warned both the CIA and Israel that Middle Eastern terrorists were planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of American and Israeli culture.

In August 2000 French intelligence sources confirmed a man recently arrested in Boston by the FBI was an Islamic militant and a key member of Osama bin Laden s Al Qaeda network. The FBI knew the man had been taking flying lessons at the time of his arrest and was in possession of technical information on Boeing aircraft and flight manuals, as reported by Reuters on Sept. 13.

According to a story in Izveztia on Sept. 12, Russian intelligence warned the USG that as many as 25 suicide pilots were training for missions involving the crashing of airliners into important targets.

In an MSNBC interview on Sept. 15, Russian President Vladimir Putin stated that he had ordered Russian intelligence to warn the USG in the strongest possible terms of imminent assaults on airports and government buildings before the attacks on Sept. 11.

CBS News, May 16, 2002:

“President Bush was told in the months before the Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network might hijack U.S. passenger planes - information which prompted the administration to issue an alert to federal agencies - but not the American public.”

“On July 5, 2001, according to a recent Washington Post article, the White House called together officials from a dozen federal agencies to give them a warning.

“‘Something really spectacular is going to happen here, and it's going to happen soon,’ the officials were told by the government's top counterterrorism official, Richard Clarke.

“Clarke considered the threat sufficiently important to direct every counterintelligence office to cancel vacations and get ready for immediate action, the Post reported.”

So it seems clear he knew that:

1. An attack was coming,
2. It involved planes.
3. It was soon.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby _sabotage_ on Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:32 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:You haven't provided a single piece of evidence validating your official story theory,


If I say trees can ride bicycles it's my job to prove it, not your job to find a source that says they can't.


There were over 80 cameras focused on the Pentagon. The videos were immediately rounded up by the FBI. 4 have been released. None show a plane. A CIA agent claims to have examined all videos, and signed an affidavit saying none show a plane.

Proof, there was no plane.

If there was no plane, it couldn't have been Flight 77, since Flight 77 was indeed a plane. If it wasn't a plane, what was it? It went boom, it stunk of cordite, it evaded the missile defence system of the Pentagon.

It was a missile that registered friendly with the Pentagon. It was a Pentagon missile.

An inside job. You are welcome.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby rdsrds2120 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:35 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:You haven't provided a single piece of evidence validating your official story theory,


If I say trees can ride bicycles it's my job to prove it, not your job to find a source that says they can't.


There were over 80 cameras focused on the Pentagon. The videos were immediately rounded up by the FBI. 4 have been released. None show a plane. A CIA agent claims to have examined all videos, and signed an affidavit saying none show a plane.

Proof, there was no plane.

If there was no plane, it couldn't have been Flight 77, since Flight 77 was indeed a plane. If it wasn't a plane, what was it? It went boom, it stunk of cordite, it evaded the missile defence system of the Pentagon.

It was a missile that registered friendly with the Pentagon. It was a Pentagon missile.

An inside job. You are welcome.


Image

BMO
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:48 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:Ok, so what could the warnings have told him had he bothered to take note or follow up on them?

From CNN

President Bush's daily intelligence briefings in the weeks leading up to the September 11 terror attacks included a warning of the possibility that Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network would attempt to hijack a U.S.-based airliner, senior administration officials said Wednesday.

NYTimes

The White House said tonight that President Bush had been warned by American intelligence agencies in early August that Osama bin Laden was seeking to hijack aircraft but that the warnings did not contemplate the possibility that the hijackers would turn the planes into guided missiles for a terrorist attack.

As reported in the respected German daily Frankfurter Algemeine Zeitung (FAZ) on Sept. 14, 2001 the German intelligence service, the BND, warned both the CIA and Israel that Middle Eastern terrorists were planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of American and Israeli culture.

In August 2000 French intelligence sources confirmed a man recently arrested in Boston by the FBI was an Islamic militant and a key member of Osama bin Laden s Al Qaeda network. The FBI knew the man had been taking flying lessons at the time of his arrest and was in possession of technical information on Boeing aircraft and flight manuals, as reported by Reuters on Sept. 13.

According to a story in Izveztia on Sept. 12, Russian intelligence warned the USG that as many as 25 suicide pilots were training for missions involving the crashing of airliners into important targets.

In an MSNBC interview on Sept. 15, Russian President Vladimir Putin stated that he had ordered Russian intelligence to warn the USG in the strongest possible terms of imminent assaults on airports and government buildings before the attacks on Sept. 11.

CBS News, May 16, 2002:

“President Bush was told in the months before the Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network might hijack U.S. passenger planes - information which prompted the administration to issue an alert to federal agencies - but not the American public.”

“On July 5, 2001, according to a recent Washington Post article, the White House called together officials from a dozen federal agencies to give them a warning.

“‘Something really spectacular is going to happen here, and it's going to happen soon,’ the officials were told by the government's top counterterrorism official, Richard Clarke.

“Clarke considered the threat sufficiently important to direct every counterintelligence office to cancel vacations and get ready for immediate action, the Post reported.”

So it seems clear he knew that:

1. An attack was coming,
2. It involved planes.
3. It was soon.


Correction:

0. There were many intelligence reports from US and non-US agencies making a large variety of claims about a pending attack in the US and beyond; however, I cherry picked a few intelligence reports (without citing them) in order to provide my crafted vision of a fine line of intelligence reports that conform to my strongly held beliefs.
Therefore,
1. An attack was coming,
2. It involved planes.
3. It was soon.


But this what was happening from the decision-makers' viewpoint:
1. An attack may be coming.
2. It may involve planes.
3. It was likely to be soon--whenever that would be.
4. So, presumably* resources were prioritized to deal this possible attack by having the relevant agencies handle it (NSA, CIA, FBI)---which unfortunately bungled it, thus contributing to the occurrence of 9-11, as The Looming Tower carefully explains.

*"Presumably" because I assume the executive ordered this to happen. Had he said, "Don't worry about it, all you employees of the state," then where's the smoking gun? Where are the CIA agents saying, "Gee, we could've stopped 9-11, but Bush told us not to"? (Because that never happened--unless we believe that all the individuals involved in government and in close enough proximity to this event could magically remain silent, and that no profit-seeking freelancer could penetrate this surreal cloud of secrecy).

Intelligence is not a crystal ball--no matter how hard you try to pound it into one.

You're viewing a scenario with the benefit of hindsight, and inappropriately applying that hindsight into the past by creating a phoney stream of select reports which confirm your viewpoint. That's not a good argument.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby _sabotage_ on Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:00 pm

67 planes were intercepted in 2001 prior to 9/11.

None on 9/11.

The Pentagon was hit 59 minutes after the initial hijacking. Two airforce bases within a couple minutes away.

You are viewing the scenario in a void, acting as if each aspect is isolated.

Why was plane interception protocol changed during this period? This period of warning of planes being used in imminent terrorist attacks?

Why can we not see a plane when 80 + cameras faced the scene of the Pentagon?

Why was this justification to invade Iraq?

Why was Bin Laden never charged for 9/11?

If you can answer those questions in consideration of the fact that Bush was poopooing the warnings, I will be happy to listen.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:03 pm

The original statement was: President Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks before they happened.

_sabotage_'s burden of evidence is to prove that Bush had been informed, prior to September 11, 2001:
    1. multiple planes would be hijacked
    2. these planes would be intentionally crashed
    3. the location of the crashes would be the World Trade Center in New York and The Pentagon
    4. items 1-3 would occur on the morning of September 11, 2001
All of these elements have to be proved for the statement to be true. I am willing to grant he's proved #1. Everything else I've seen so far (cameras at the Pentagon were deactivated, Bin Laden wasn't indicted, every 17th letter in Revelations put together spells the phrase 'Bush Did It', etc.) doesn't address points 2-4.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:12 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:67 planes were intercepted in 2001 prior to 9/11.

None on 9/11.

The Pentagon was hit 59 minutes after the initial hijacking. Two airforce bases within a couple minutes away.

You are viewing the scenario in a void, acting as if each aspect is isolated.

Why was plane interception protocol changed during this period? This period of warning of planes being used in imminent terrorist attacks?

Why can we not see a plane when 80 + cameras faced the scene of the Pentagon?

Why was this justification to invade Iraq?

Why was Bin Laden never charged for 9/11?

If you can answer those questions in consideration of the fact that Bush was poopooing the warnings, I will be happy to listen.


Nice smoke screen, but you've provided insufficient evidence for the underlined. You're still not providing a good argument.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby _sabotage_ on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:48 pm

You're right, Bush et al are angels, may you ever flourish under the magnificent wings.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:51 am

_sabotage_ wrote:You're right, Bush et al are angels, may you ever flourish under the magnificent wings.


Sorry, sir, but your post belongs in the Accidental Strawmen thread.
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Re: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:23 am

Sabotage:
Bush knew that bin Laden's organization was going to hijack a plane.
Destruction wasn't caused by planes, no planes present.

?

-TG
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